Bulls in trade talks for Rudy Gay?

Naptastic · Sep 3, 2015

Enasic said:
Also, regarding his defense/footwork, he said that last year he was only able to squat 60 pounds. 60. That's insanely bad for anyone, yet alone a professional athlete....but now he's squatting his body weight...naturally his lower body is stronger this year and he should be at least marginally faster\quicker than last season. Like any young player, he just needs playing time and the chance to learn from his mistakes.

Do you have a source on this? There is no way he only squatted 60lbs. That is ridiculous. 7th graders can do that.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 3, 2015

Yeah, I don't believe a guy who played college basketball could only squat 60 pounds. Are you sure he wasn't being sarcastic in the answer to a question about that?

Enasic · Sep 3, 2015

I believe I seen or read it on bulls.com

It was definitely 60 though, maybe I'll try to find the source when I have more time. He didn't say how many reps he was able to do though. He could have done 15-20 reps at 60 pounds for all I know.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 3, 2015

800 reps @ 60 pounds.

clonetrooper264 · Sep 3, 2015

Apparently Dougie didn't know how to squat lol

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/samsmith/bulls-roll-victory-summer-league-opener

Either way, he's up to 245 now so that part of the problem is resolved.

FirstTimer · Sep 3, 2015

Doug's math doesn't make sense unless one of two things were true:

1. He was unable to do one body weight squat and/or stand up off a toilet

2. His upper body weighed less than 50lbs.

Enasic · Sep 3, 2015

FirstTimer said:
Doug's math doesn't make sense unless one of two things were true:

1. He was unable to do one body weight squat and/or stand up off a toilet

2. His upper body weighed less than 50lbs.

They probably had him doing 15-20 reps at 50 lbs. A lot of guys swear by that method to build strength with your squat. 3 sets of 20 reps, then gradually increase the weight as you're able to handle it. Usually though, guys 20 rep max is much higher than 50 lbs, but it sounds like Doug neglected his lower body until his rookie year. He should be quicker and more explosive because of it. People forget he had a 36.5 max vertical at the combine. For a guy who had zero lower body strength, that's impressive and probably should go up an inch or so.

Naptastic · Sep 3, 2015

Enasic said:
They probably had him doing 15-20 reps at 50 lbs. A lot of guys swear by that method to build strength with your squat. 3 sets of 20 reps, then gradually increase the weight as you're able to handle it. Usually though, guys 20 rep max is much higher than 50 lbs, but it sounds like Doug neglected his lower body until his rookie year. He should be quicker and more explosive because of it. People forget he had a 36.5 max vertical at the combine. For a guy who had zero lower body strength, that's impressive and probably should go up an inch or so.

It does kinda make sense that he would go for muscle endurance, hence the high number of reps, than high weight for a few reps. He has to be able to last a whole game, He probably jumps up an insane number of times, at least one for every rebound attempt

The Hawk · Sep 3, 2015

Bear Pride said:
The question is.... is Gay 4.2 times better than Dunn. And, could the Bulls add someone else at the 3.2 salary increase? Furthermore, the new offense will place a priority on the 3 point shot, which Dunn brings to the table.

Then bring in a 3 point shooter off of the bench. Gay is just so much better than Dunleavy . I do not care about his salary. Reinsdorf has huge fucking money to afford Gay. Look last year the biggest weakness of this team was the SF position or SG since they moved Butler and left SF be so damn weak. They had no one backing up Butler that was worth a crap.

They should do it. No doubt about it. They really need skill at that position and Gay could also fill a need at SG depending on what they want to do. This is a no brainer to me. They have fucked up so many things in the last three years in supporting the core group, that this is like a breath of fresh air.

The Hawk · Sep 3, 2015

McD was a mistake. If they can get something for him, especially a good player in a deal, then do it. He will never be an NBA starter and I do not believe he would be the first or 2nd guy off of the bench. He's not very athletic, can't create his own shot, and need a lot of room to shoot. That isn't the NBA. They had a chance in that draft to get a point guard and a shooting guard and they blew it. Gar/Pax are idiots.

Enasic · Sep 3, 2015

Reinsdorf having money is irrelevant. If signing gay prevents you from signing a top tier FA due to the cap/CBA then you kill your flexibility on a sub-star player.

Further, it's way too early to call Doug a mistake

Bear Pride · Sep 3, 2015

The Hawk said:
Then bring in a 3 point shooter off of the bench. Gay is just so much better than Dunleavy . I do not care about his salary. Reinsdorf has huge fucking money to afford Gay. Look last year the biggest weakness of this team was the SF position or SG since they moved Butler and left SF be so damn weak. They had no one backing up Butler that was worth a crap.

They should do it. No doubt about it. They really need skill at that position and Gay could also fill a need at SG depending on what they want to do. This is a no brainer to me. They have fucked up so many things in the last three years in supporting the core group, that this is like a breath of fresh air.

But... but... I thought Niko was our SF?

DirtyDutchDiggler · Sep 3, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
Yeah he isn't quite the sharpshooter we thought he'd be, but he can still make it rain every now and then. He did shoot the Euro 3 at a near 40% clip which, although it is a shorter line, leads me to believe he can make an improvement to around 35% in time.

I think Niko will hit 38-40% this year but I could care less if he is in 33-35% because the scouting report on him will be as a threat from deep but lets not forget what he is capable of doing. He can handle, shoot, score (off dribble and back to basket) and dish the rock. He can do it all and that is rare. http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2015/09/02/rookie-1st-team-nikola-mirotic.nba/
How often do we see a immediate impact player right out of Europe?
My top ten all time foreign players of all time (not to play college ball) in no particular order:

Nowitzki
P. Gasol
Kukoc
Tony Parker
Ginobili
Ming
Sabonis
Divac
M. Gasol
Petrovic

None of them had a huge impact other than Pau their rookie year and the rest were on par or worse than Niko number wise. Dirks numbers are almost exactly the same (Niko averaged more per game and better 3pt %). This upcomming year we will see where he is since we know he will play a bigger role on the team without having to look at Thibs giving him a dirty look and cussing him out after every rookie mistake. Stacey King says McD could get MIP considerations, I think Niko has a better shot at it.

Shepard · Sep 4, 2015

Enasic said:
Reinsdorf having money is irrelevant. If signing gay prevents you from signing a top tier FA due to the cap/CBA then you kill your flexibility on a sub-star player.

Further, it's way too early to call Doug a mistake

Why would Gay prevent us from signing anyone else? The cap numbers the next two years involving Taj, Dun & McD would wash Gay anyway. If you're referring to Gay's 14mil in 17'-18' (assuming he'd exercise it, which is no guarantee considering how silly contracts will get) he and Butler would be the only major contracts on the books as of now....they'd be way way under any cap at that point and could sign whoever they wanted including the likes of Niko and others. If they're in position to re-sign Rose to a long-term deal after his deal is up...that may very well mean the Gay trade worked.

Also, we should never ever be setting ourselves up to have cap room just for the sake of being a players in FA ever again. We never have and never will get the elite player in FA. Spare me the Ben Wallace remark as we were the only team dumb enough to give him 15mil/yr. When we've offered max contracts to mega FAs while other teams did as well- they've chosen elsewhere.

However, money should not be a hindrance to getting Gay. The only reason we won't get Gay is because Sacramento won't give him away like this.

Shepard · Sep 4, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
Yeah he isn't quite the sharpshooter we thought he'd be, but he can still make it rain every now and then. He did shoot the Euro 3 at a near 40% clip which, although it is a shorter line, leads me to believe he can make an improvement to around 35% in time.

I think we're off base comparing Niko to the likes of Dun and Snell regarding shooting ability. Snell & Dun are floor spacers who almost always had the other club's worst perimeter defender guarding them. They should shoot at a higher clip than Niko.

Niko is a scorer and during the 2nd half of the season- he was ALWAYS accounted for, often times by a very good defender. Niko often times would find himself pump faking and taking a more difficult shot. Hopefully this year Niko will play in a far more up tempo offense where just shoots when he's open rather than relying on the pump fake so much.

Enasic · Sep 4, 2015

Shepard said:
Why would Gay prevent us from signing anyone else? The cap numbers the next two years involving Taj, Dun & McD would wash Gay anyway. If you're referring to Gay's 14mil in 17'-18' (assuming he'd exercise it, which is no guarantee considering how silly contracts will get) he and Butler would be the only major contracts on the books as of now....they'd be way way under any cap at that point and could sign whoever they wanted including Rose.

Money isn't a problem here.

The deal isn't Taj, Doug, and MDJ though....unless you're suggesting cutting MDJ next season which would really kill our spacing. Taj and Doug combined make less than Gay. No matter how you slice it, if we made that deal, we wouldn't be able to sign a max guy next season. The question isn't whether Gay is a better player than MDJ as some here want to point out. And it's really not even about the scheme fit, which if you ask me, MDJ is a better fit anyways....the real question is, if we trade for Gay, are we favorites over the Cavs? We wouldn't be. You don't make that trade to be the underdog anyways, when it prevents you from having financial flexibility to go out and get the player you need. You hold onto your assets until a guy like Melo becomes available at the trade deadline...and despite my dislike of him, that's a move that probably does make us favorites in the East and possibly the league.

Shepard · Sep 4, 2015

Enasic said:
the real question is, if we trade for Gay, are we favorites over the Cavs? We wouldn't be. You don't make that trade to be the underdog anyways, when it prevents you from having financial flexibility to go out and get the player you need.

It doesn't make us the favorites over the Cavs, but it gives us a better chance to beat them. The Bulls have no choice but to go all in and compete. We weren't that far from beating the Cavs last year. If we hold on to a 10 point lead in the 4th in Game 4...the Bulls win that series and would have been in the Finals.

Irving may not play until January and a guy like Gay outplays the likes of Smith and Shumpert while they absolutely abused Dun in that series last year.

Oh and the Bulls aren't trading for Melo's max contract...no one is. He's stuck in New York and they're stuck with him.

Also, by your logic you're saying why get better if we can't be favored over the Cavs? We may as well join the likes of Philly and others and just tank, collect assets and win when we can. That's non-sense.

Enasic · Sep 4, 2015

My logic isn't "why get better if we can't beat the cavs." It's more like don't make a move that doesn't propel you as the favorites if it hinders your financial flexibility to add a star player. Look, I'm not saying trading for gay is a bad deal...it's intriguing, but ultimately I would pass on it. His teams play better when he leaves, he needs a lot of shots, as do rose, jimmy, and pau (only one ball) and he doesn't space the floor.

Also, given the right deal, I think we would trade for melo as he's a legit star player who has success against lebron. Melo on offense against lebron and jimmy guarding him would be a nightmare for lbJ. Don't think we would be the only team to trade for him either. He makes no sense for the Knicks who are years away from competing, but a team like us who are just a piece away, makes total sense. He's definitely moveable and probably for a good deal, because of his cap number.

zack54attack · Sep 4, 2015

I read the article that was going around Facebook. No where in Woj's report did it say the Bulls.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 5, 2015

zack54attack said:
I read the article that was going around Facebook. No where in Woj's report did it say the Bulls.

Shut up.

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