Boobaby1
New member
- Joined:
- Apr 18, 2013
- Posts:
- 2,236
- Liked Posts:
- 1,180
This is from Chicago Cubs Online.
Good call Beck!
edit: On Fowler turning his season around.
Good call Beck!
edit: On Fowler turning his season around.
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 9,995
- Liked Posts:
- 3,630
My favorite teams
Yep. Fowler was hitting lasers last night with little to show for it. JD had mentioned last night on the broadcast his numbers are headed back to his career norms.
FrankieLyrical
South Side Chicagoan
- Joined:
- Nov 5, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,483
- Liked Posts:
- 814
- Location:
- Chicago, IL.
I want him for at least another 2 years. Very good eye at the plate and has some pop.
TC in Mississippi
CCS Staff
- Joined:
- Oct 22, 2014
- Posts:
- 5,305
- Liked Posts:
- 1,815
I would love to have him for two more years but it's more than likely that someone is going to sign him for 4 or 5 at some big dollars. Unless they decide that Almora isn't there guy for 2017, which I think they're counting on, I'd be surprised to see Fowler here next year. If I were them I'd take a look at Denard Span to see if he would sign a 1 year deal to rebuild value after an injury plagued FA year. Teams will be pretty unlikely to give him a 4-5 year deal right now, especially at the $100 million price tag he was expecting. Maybe you offer him $12-$14 mil plus incentives that could get him to $16 mil or so?
CSF77
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2013
- Posts:
- 17,956
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- San Diego
He earned that offer. It tells me that they are not going after Price though. Not enough payroll flexibility.
But they can still opt on signing a 2nd tier starter like Latos or Zimmerman.
Acccually I think there is a connect with Latos and Hoyer. Would make sense to go after him. See what Bosio can do with a talent like him.
Add to it they still have control over Turner next year so that is another depth option.
I've thought it over some and I'm coming to believe they need a top end closer next year. Rondon has not been given the title for a reason. He can get blown up.
But they can still opt on signing a 2nd tier starter like Latos or Zimmerman.
Acccually I think there is a connect with Latos and Hoyer. Would make sense to go after him. See what Bosio can do with a talent like him.
Add to it they still have control over Turner next year so that is another depth option.
I've thought it over some and I'm coming to believe they need a top end closer next year. Rondon has not been given the title for a reason. He can get blown up.
CSF77
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2013
- Posts:
- 17,956
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- San Diego
WAR for Pitchers s c a p y
1. Greinke (LAD) 8.1
2. Keuchel (HOU) 6.9
3. Gray (OAK) 6.3
4. Arrieta (CHC) 6.2
5. Kershaw (LAD) 5.9
6. Price (2TM) 5.5
7. Scherzer (WSN) 4.9
8. deGrom (NYM) 4.4
9. Miller (ATL) 4.4
10. Archer (TBR)
They could extend Jackson. Then trade Soler, Castro and Hendricks to the A's for Grey. Seeing how his WAR is better than Jake's is you have to pay heavy
1. Greinke (LAD) 8.1
2. Keuchel (HOU) 6.9
3. Gray (OAK) 6.3
4. Arrieta (CHC) 6.2
5. Kershaw (LAD) 5.9
6. Price (2TM) 5.5
7. Scherzer (WSN) 4.9
8. deGrom (NYM) 4.4
9. Miller (ATL) 4.4
10. Archer (TBR)
They could extend Jackson. Then trade Soler, Castro and Hendricks to the A's for Grey. Seeing how his WAR is better than Jake's is you have to pay heavy
willycat
New member
- Joined:
- May 25, 2015
- Posts:
- 88
- Liked Posts:
- 10
Price is their number one priority and I predict he will be a Cubbie next season. There is no salary cap in MLB and Ricketts will open up the wallet for him.
JZsportsfan
New member
- Joined:
- Mar 31, 2013
- Posts:
- 2,503
- Liked Posts:
- 674
- Location:
- Chicago
Good
Would be nice to have him back on a 1-year deal, or to get a draft pick if he leaves
Would be nice to have him back on a 1-year deal, or to get a draft pick if he leaves
CSF77
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2013
- Posts:
- 17,956
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- San Diego
Ricketts have already said that they will not go back to the 150 mil payroll. 125 mil is a payroll that you should expect. I don't know how well you have followed the Ricketts sense they took over but the first thing they did was lower payroll to get from under it and to become solvent again.
The team is a mid sized market due to the IL state taxes and that they have to pay for their own upgrades. In other words they are taxed as a public property. Which is heavy taxed. In those cases the state or city would be in charge of stadium upgrades. But sense it is deemed private the property owner is in charge of those issues.
It should be illegal but for some reason the city gets away with robbery from the owners. Glad I moved out from the state.
Not to mention how the Ricketts had to go through all of those court battles just to put up signs on their own property. It is a private property and controlled as a public. Pretty backwards if you really stop to think about it.
TC in Mississippi
CCS Staff
- Joined:
- Oct 22, 2014
- Posts:
- 5,305
- Liked Posts:
- 1,815
Ricketts has also said that Theo has no budget limit and that they would do what they have to in order to get him the money he needs. I don't know if the payroll will be $150 million in 2016 but it's likely to get there sooner rather than later. Revenues are way up this year and in a couple of years they'll have a sense of the TV money coming after 2019. They can certainly bank on that and a refinancing of the original deal the Rickets' made is coming next summer and the team has doubled in value since the purchase. I wouldn't worry quite so much about money.
To the points at hand though there is no way Fowler accepts a QO. No one ever has. After his second half and his lifetime OBP of .364 he's going to get paid. I originally thought he'd get a 4 year deal in the $45-$55 mil range but most experts now think that will be closer to $75 mil especially since teams are going to be wary of Denard Span in a long term deal. You try to sign Fowler long term and go after Price which I think they will. I'm not sure I see them landing Price though as a bidding war between the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox will likely move that needle over $220 million. I'm not sure I see the Cubs going there but then maybe Greinke or Cueto become bargains at $200 million. Who knows? The money spent on pitching this offseason is going to be silly. I do think they'll get a young starter in trade but they need two new starters going into next year. I think Hammel might be moved and Hendricks being moved in a deal for that young starter wouldn't shock me either.
- Joined:
- Feb 9, 2011
- Posts:
- 5,444
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- Minnesota
If the Cubs do get Price, that would be a fun short window with a few years of contract nightmares ahead lol
A declining Lester will be getting paid a bunch, a declining Price would be getting paid a bunch, and Arrieta will either walk in a couple years or be paid a bunch into his declining years.
A declining Lester will be getting paid a bunch, a declining Price would be getting paid a bunch, and Arrieta will either walk in a couple years or be paid a bunch into his declining years.
beckdawg
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Oct 31, 2012
- Posts:
- 11,723
- Liked Posts:
- 3,723
I tend to agree with this. The only exception I'd toss out there is that it's possible Fowler wants to win and might take a lessor deal to stay with the cubs. But if I'm him I'm not entirely sure I'd take a 4 year deal. I mean he's been worth 3 fWAR this year which typically has been worth around $7 mil/season in FA and it's not like you have many options in CF even if his defense leaves something to be desired. It's not that crazy to compare him to Jacoby Ellsbury. Ellsbury is a career .291/.346/.430 hitter with a .139 ISO. Fowler is a career .268/.364/.421 with a .152. I'd suggest Ellsbury had better peaks not to mention better speed and defense. So, I'd say what Ellsbury got would be top range but that was 2 years ago now and inflation always pushes things up. As such, $20 mil/season doesn't seem that crazy though I think it largely depends on who gets involved because you're probably not paying him that to play CF in bigger ballparks. Instead he'd be a corner guy which would push him down.
Overall, I'm of two minds about him next year. I don't think a QO has any shot at keeping him as TC said. However, if you sign him to a deal I can't imagine 4 years getting it done and with Almora/McKinney headed to AAA next year 4 years might be more than you're really wanting to commit long term. It just leaves you in a weird position because I see very few other options for CF in 2016. So, you sort of have to sign him but in doing so it makes the OF picture for prospects a bit crowded not to mention adds payroll. If Soler and/or Schwarber weren't around that problem sort of goes away as you could push Fowler to a corner if Almora is ready or stay with him in CF and go with McKinney in a corner. Honestly, that's why the rumors of Soler for Teheran were interesting to me. I like Soler a lot and there's other players I'd rather move but if moving him gets you someone like Teheran and it allows you to re-sign Fowler and move him or Almora/McKinney around later it's at least an interesting idea.
willycat
New member
- Joined:
- May 25, 2015
- Posts:
- 88
- Liked Posts:
- 10
If the Cubs do get price they would have one of the top starting staffs in the game. So when do you think that these contract nightmares will be? 2018? 2020? 2022? Who cares you pay for the best arms available that get you the WS in the next 2, 3, 4 or 5 years.
TC in Mississippi
CCS Staff
- Joined:
- Oct 22, 2014
- Posts:
- 5,305
- Liked Posts:
- 1,815
I think there are options to Fowler. We're going to get a long look at Austin Jackson in the next month. Jackson would likely consider a 2 year deal to rebuild value after a rough couple of years. I also mentioned Denard Span who would almost certainly consider a 1 year deal unless he knows something about his body that others don't. # DL stints in a year where he played 61 games doesn't get you that big payday. I would consider making a very competitive offer to him of say $12-$14 miliion with incentives that could take him over $16 mil. He'd still have the same high profile he did this year playing for a contender but if he stayed healthy he would get the big bucks from someone next year. Considering the Cubs really believe in Almora and might have Ian Happ as a back up either the Jackson or Span scenario could work for them. It's simply a question of money and what those two individuals want.
As far as trading for a Teheran, I'm all for it, the Cubs need a younger arm in that staff and they also likely need a guy who could potentially replace Arrieta in 2 years. I also think they need to sign a starter. I don't want to see any part of Hendricks or Hammel outside of the 5 slot, or the 4 in the event of injury. These are not playoff pitchers. So you sign a Price/Greinke or Cueto and trade for a Teheran or Carrasco and you have a hell of a staff.
CSF77
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2013
- Posts:
- 17,956
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- San Diego
I get what Theo did with Fowler. Get a free pick while his value is good. Makes the trade for him to end up being a plus. If he takes it then CF is covered. Win win
Tou do not give him a multi year with Almora in AAA.
Now Ajax in CF is a good option. See if he can give plus value. The only problem is he will also be a free agent with Almora in CF and Soler in RF and a q-offer on Fowler. The opertunity might be better elsewhere.
Tou do not give him a multi year with Almora in AAA.
Now Ajax in CF is a good option. See if he can give plus value. The only problem is he will also be a free agent with Almora in CF and Soler in RF and a q-offer on Fowler. The opertunity might be better elsewhere.
DJMoore_is_fat
New member
- Joined:
- Aug 26, 2012
- Posts:
- 4,143
- Liked Posts:
- 1,789
Even though we're shaping up to have sustained playoff success for upwards of 10 years -- I really like this two year window with Arrieta and all the young prospects on rookie deals. If we can keep Fowler in play, we'll have an excellent at the pennant.
But yes some team will probably offer him 5-years/$80M, in which case we obviously have to let him go and take the pick. We need to blow our wad on a guy like Price. It's easier to find a lead off guy than a #1. Although I do love Fowler and what he's done this year.
But yes some team will probably offer him 5-years/$80M, in which case we obviously have to let him go and take the pick. We need to blow our wad on a guy like Price. It's easier to find a lead off guy than a #1. Although I do love Fowler and what he's done this year.
CSF77
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2013
- Posts:
- 17,956
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- San Diego
Cubs need a realistic plan "B" option if all move on. Almora is most likely not an option until the break at earliest. In house who makes the most sense is Alcantara then Szczur. After that it becomes questionable in Coghlan and moving guys off position.
I wouldn't make a potential long term answer with Almora this close
I wouldn't make a potential long term answer with Almora this close
TC in Mississippi
CCS Staff
- Joined:
- Oct 22, 2014
- Posts:
- 5,305
- Liked Posts:
- 1,815
I don't think either of those guys are good enough for a team expected to win the toughest division in baseball next year. If you can't sign one of those guys short term you'll have to look for a trade. You're not going to spend $200 million on a pitcher, likely trade for another one, possibly spend big money on Zobrist or the like and settle for the unknown in CF. I can't see it.
- Joined:
- Feb 9, 2011
- Posts:
- 5,444
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- Minnesota
Oh trust me, I'm with ya.
Theo could retire a hero before it comes back to bite the Cubs in the ass :lol:
CSF77
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2013
- Posts:
- 17,956
- Liked Posts:
- 2,775
- Location:
- San Diego
They need a lead off more than anything. Followed by a #3. After that they would have to remove either Hammel or Hendricks.
A cheap answer: sign Kaz to a 3 year deal. He would split Hammel and Hendricks. Then let Edwards and Johnson start in AAA with Jochish and Turner. Let them battle it out for getting a shot.
CF I would have Baez learn it in the off season. Keep 2B in a platoon of LaStella and Castro. Let those 2 lead off.
Pretty cheap answer. But leaves openings for promotion and for Castro to rebound and get his trade value up.
If they are going to spend on a multi it should be on a guy like Kaz. Good 2nd LH. System depth that is close are all RH
