Looking at Free Agency: The OL Class

Monk · Nov 28, 2015

I have no problem with the tackles. I wouldn't mind and upgrade at LT of course but I wouldn't spend big. I think Center and RG are our biggest concerns. Center may look like bringing Montgomery back and letting Grasu develop. So I think the focus should be on an upgrade at RG. Whether that be putting Long back an getting a RT or getting a guard.

This is all FA. Of course draft what is available if it's a true value no matter what position

rawdawg · Nov 28, 2015

WindyCity said:
Does the replace Leno crowd also want to replace Bryce Callahan and Adrian Amos?

Both are late round picks or udfa that are playing well, but they were not drafted high so they should be replaced.

Who has said they want Leno replaced? I want to have options. I want to anticipate Leno looking more like a 7th round pick than a franchise LT, so in case he goes back to looking like a 7th round pick, we have options. Same goes for Callahan. Both of those guys need to have competition for their jobs next year because they got them by competing with trash players. Leno beat out Jordan Mills, who is on his 3rd team this season. Callahan beat out McManis, who proved he can't play CB in the NFL. Amos was a 5th round pick, who was a 3rd round talent according to some. He did win the job vs. a trash player (Vereen), but he has performed very consistently for all 11 games.

Best case scenario is Leno and Callahan continuing to get better and being huge draft/UDFA steals. But that shouldn't mean the Bears just leave them alone and only give them backup level talent, because for all we know, they could be backup level talent themselves.

The Lovie era is marred by the team hitting on some later picks and then trying to essentially build a team that way. Too much time was spent on 4th or later round picks who simply weren't good enough for long enough. And the Bears missed on early picks or traded them away and it set this franchise in the wrong direction.

Monk · Nov 28, 2015

WindyCity said:
I don't know how people define getting schooled?

The Bears will invest in the OL; I just don't think they are going to rush to replace Leno with a premium pick or free agent contract, when RG is a serious need.

And the move Long crowd needs to come to grips with the fact he has not been as good in pass pro as Leno and that his strength is run blocking.

Isn't that what you want at RT too? Good at pass pro but great run blocking? Get him a run blocking guard next to him and let Forte and Langford eat away at defenses.

KittiesKorner · Nov 28, 2015

Depth! What a concept

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Monk · Nov 28, 2015

I don't think you can say Callahan won is job by beat trash really. The guy before him may have been trash, but that doesn't make him "just better than trash".

Just in the Green Bay game, he's going against the one of the most dangerous combinations of QB and slot receiver in Rodgers and Cobb. I only remember one big play from them. That's a pretty darn good day for any CB.

Rating a player on draft position is insane. We may get an UDFA to replace Leno next year and that's fine. You just can't tell how a player will react to scheme and coaching until they are in it.

Monk · Nov 28, 2015

tardigrade said:
Depth! What a concept

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I heard that steel waters run depth.

modo · Nov 28, 2015

If they get only 1 player on offense in FA I hope it is Osemele

KittiesKorner · Nov 28, 2015

Marty McFly said:
I heard that steel waters run depth.

Shut up!

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Monk · Nov 28, 2015

tardigrade said:
Shut up!

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Ok sir. I'm sorry.

alexbear1 · Nov 28, 2015

PickSix said:
I like your plan lot. I would love to land Massie in FA. It gives you a ton of flexibility in the draft. Best case is that your stud RG is still there in rd 3.
If not, rolling with Leno, Slausen, Grasu, Long, Massie is still much better than now.
Round 1 and 2 likely need to go to the D this year. If Leno continues as is for this year and unfortunately poops out next, you could then address LT at the top of 2017 draft or move Long over there when needed.

I think we're going to be picking a little lower in the draft than we all originally thought (probably 15-20+). In FA and apart from OLB there are a lot of players out there that Pace can target to increase the elite talent level on defence. I believe this will allow him to go BPA in the draft so I wouldn't be surprised if the first two picks aren't necessarily both defence now.

Next year we'll be picking at 32! SAY WHAT.....?! We may not be able to target LT at that spot

Agree not sure if I want to take Kirkland in round 2. In round 3 I'd be very happy for the Bears to have the opportunity to pick him.

alexbear1 · Nov 28, 2015

WindyCity said:
Does the replace Leno crowd also want to replace Bryce Callahan and Adrian Amos?

Both are late round picks or udfa that are playing well, but they were not drafted high so they should be replaced.

It's not that I necessarily want to replace Leno Jr. at LT but I would like the Bears to increase the talent level in all areas of the roster. If we sign Massie to play RT we have signed a young player who seems to be improving which will allow us to move Long back to RG or indeed to find out if he could be a stud LT. We also have even more flexibility in the draft.

satchice · Nov 28, 2015

Pickles said:
D will get more emphasis, Grasu will have a much needed offseason. What we need is a monster at RG and the running game will be fine.

Would Conklin qualify as a monster in the run game at right guard with his long arms.

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Bears27 · Nov 28, 2015

This is an area, I think the Bears can rely on the draft and save some cash/space in FA for more pressing needs. Ideally something like signing Ryan Harris (quality depth @ OT), drafting Pat Elfein (mauler of OG – ask Zeke), and resigning Patrick Omameh (flashed some potential this year) would be a very strong haul, IMO.

A good OL stems from building chemistry as a complete unit. You don't need to throw a ton of cash to try and "patch" the line up. Add depth and draft a cornerstone lineman that fits your run-blocking scheme.

You can then use the savings to address the LB corps, add depth to the DL & find a center-fielder type S to pair with Amos.

rawdawg · Nov 28, 2015

Marty McFly said:
I don't think you can say Callahan won is job by beat trash really. The guy before him may have been trash, but that doesn't make him "just better than trash".

Just in the Green Bay game, he's going against the one of the most dangerous combinations of QB and slot receiver in Rodgers and Cobb. I only remember one big play from them. That's a pretty darn good day for any CB.

Rating a player on draft position is insane. We may get an UDFA to replace Leno next year and that's fine. You just can't tell how a player will react to scheme and coaching until they are in it.

I wasn't trying to say that Callahan is lesser trash. All these late picks and UDFAs are worthy of roster spots and worthy to at least get a chance to compete as a starter for as long as they play decently.

And I'm not rating a player based on draft position. I'm rating his talent level based on where he was drafted. And rating the overall talent on the roster based on that. For example, the Bears started an aging veteran at LT the last couple years and a 5th round pick in Mills at RT. All they've added to the OT position in the last 2 years is a pair of 7th round picks (Leno and Fabuluje). The talent level at OT is low, regardless of if Leno is a great OT or not....and that includes moving a pro bowl OG to the position. The talent at the CB position is low because you have a bunch of UDFAs and stopgap veterans, with just Fuller as a top level talent at the position. My goal is to increase the talent all around on this team. And injuries do happen quite often in the NFL. It's one thing to replace Kyle Long with a UDFA because of injury. But I don't want a roster that replaces one UDFA with another UDFA because that's all they have. Every once in a while there's a Tom Brady or Tony Romo who comes out of nowhere and is a franchise cornerstone. But most often, guys like Leno and Callahan are role players if they even make it to rosters.

nc0gnet0 · Nov 28, 2015

I am of the opposite opinion of most on here. This is the one spot the Bears SHOULD spend money on in FA. Pick up Glen or Swartz, move Long back to RG. Then use the Draft to address the Defense. OL lineman take time to groom. and top tier Defensive lineman generally contribute more initially than their OL counterparts.

rawdawg · Nov 28, 2015

Bears27 said:
This is an area, I think the Bears can rely on the draft and save some cash/space in FA for more pressing needs. Ideally something like signing Ryan Harris (quality depth @ OT), drafting Pat Elfein (mauler of OG – ask Zeke), and resigning Patrick Omameh (flashed some potential this year) would be a very strong haul, IMO.

A good OL stems from building chemistry as a complete unit. You don't need to throw a ton of cash to try and "patch" the line up. Add depth and draft a cornerstone lineman that fits your run-blocking scheme.

You can then use the savings to address the LB corps, add depth to the DL & find a center-fielder type S to pair with Amos.

You add mediocre talent to the OL, you get a mediocre OL. Have a mediocre OL, you get a mediocre offense. Have a mediocre offense, you likely get a mediocre team.

The best OLs in the NFL have invested a lot in the position. Cowboys have Smith, Frederick, and Martin all 1st round picks. La'el Collins is a 1st round talent. Browns have Thomas and Mack as 1st round picks, Bitonio and Schwartz as 2nd rounders. That's not to say you can't build a decent OL without a strong investment at the position (Carolina has), but it's a high attrition position and even when you think you have depth, you don't have enough.

Bearly · Nov 28, 2015

satchice said:
Would Conklin qualify as a monster in the run game at right guard with his long arms.

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Sure but I don't think Conklin as a GA will be near BPA from a positional value standpoint at 15-20. If you think he can be a long term LT, he's great value. As a RT or G, he's not unless he can dominate in the pros. No one is saying to ignore the OL but you build great teams by drafting value and it looks like we'll be drafting where the value will be elsewhere, at least for us. If a guy falls, I'm all over than shit but top LTs are gone by then and even those often change positions.

jooo83 · Nov 28, 2015

alexbear1 said:
I want to spend our excess salary cap money on the defence so we can largely go BPA in the draft which I think is Pace's preferred option.

BPA should always be the preferred option.

The Hawk · Nov 28, 2015

Enasic said:
For sure. The line isn't that far off from being really good. Another plus piece in FA and some competition in the draft will go a long way. I'd like to see us more efficient running the ball next season. That aspect combined with White in the lineup and hopefully Jeffery healthy will open up a ton of play action and big plays down field.

I don't agree that the oline isn't far off from being really good. I'd say that right now, we have three below average NFL linemen in Leno, Grasu, and the flavor of the month at right guard. Along with two studs in Slauson and Long. Our backs very infrequently get holes to run through which seems to always put us into 2nd and eight situations. Isay they go OT in the first round and OG in the 3rd or 4th round. I think we are fine at center for the future.

The Hawk · Nov 28, 2015

WindyCity said:
I don't know how people define getting schooled?

The Bears will invest in the OL; I just don't think they are going to rush to replace Leno with a premium pick or free agent contract, when RG is a serious need.

And the move Long crowd needs to come to grips with the fact he has not been as good in pass pro as Leno and that his strength is run blocking.

You are wrong. All tackles lose sometimes but Long wins most of the battles and has kept Cutler from harm. Leno got killed on Thursday.

Looking at Free Agency: The OL Class

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