Jimmy Butler calls out Hoiberg, says Fred needs to be tougher

Axl Rose · Dec 20, 2015

GalePayton said:
Jimmy's comments have absolutely nothing to do with Rose.

You do realize that he and Rose were side by side playing 50+ minutes in the 4OT game and were again side by side the very next night against NY? ... But where was Pau Gasol?

The only people trying to tie Rose into Jimmy's comments are the usual crowd that has an anti-Rose agenda, which is Joe Cowly, message boards like realgm, and their sheep-like readers/members ... lol

From my viewpoint, this place has better basketball minds than either of those places.

Gasol was forced to stay in Chicago by team physicians

Jimmy may not necessarily be singling out any one player but its not a stretch to say that Rose is one of the players based on the fact that some games Rose looks totally disinterested

RoseMVP1 · Dec 20, 2015

They may still be able to compete...and you never know LeBron could get injured and then the east is up for grabs. Rose needs to get back playing at a high level, which he's inching towards, and we need to figure out the inside defense. I can't be the only one on here that's sick of getting shit on by bigs.

knoxville7 · Dec 20, 2015

RoseMVP1 said:
They may still be able to compete...and you never know LeBron could get injured and then the east is up for grabs. Rose needs to get back playing at a high level, which he's inching towards, and we need to figure out the inside defense. I can't be the only one on here that's sick of getting shit on by bigs.

im with you on that and that guy and his 22 min per game would agree too I think

GalePayton · Dec 20, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
Gasol was forced to stay in Chicago by team physicians

Jimmy may not necessarily be singling out any one player but its not a stretch to say that Rose is one of the players based on the fact that some games Rose looks totally disinterested

Look man. You're wrong. Jimmy's comments have nothing to do with Rose. The following is from KC Johnson a little while ago.

Butler didn't specify which players weren't following the game plan. One person close to Butler said the comments weren't directed at Rose.

Damn near everyone in the league praises Rose for his work ethic. Hell, the guy has busted his ass rehabbing from two major knee injuries and he's finally coming around now from a broken eye socket in preseason. He's becoming healthy again, so I expect his play to get better.

Is he injury prone? ... unfortunately I have to say yes.

Does he dog it on the court? ... absolutely not. He's had the same nonchalant demeanor on the court since high school, but the entire league knows he's a hard worker.

So like I said. You're just wrong.

Now back to the topic of this thread.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...er-fred-hoiberg-spt-1221-20151220-column.html

Uh oh!

Furthermore, according to sources, Butler used profanity while addressing the coaching staff once and disrupted a film session on another occasion with critical comments. While those defending Butler say such instances stem from his frustration that few players match his work ethic, his habit of warming up on his own has alienated others to the point that Joakim Noah recently talked to Butler, a source said.

Butler wants to win and has shown positive leadership in the past, for example when he invited McDermott to work out with him last summer.

Butler thrived in a featured role in*Tom Thibodeau's isolation-heavy offense. Butler is at least one player who still talks to the former coach, according to several sources.

Axl Rose · Dec 20, 2015

what a plot twist....Jimmy Butler was the rat all along. okay its not really a plot twist if you take the Rose color glasses off and realize his actions have been questionable.

his ego started to peak through last season which ironically is when the whole turmoil in the locker room started to take place and now its really coming out. cussing out the coaching staff? alienating teammates?

tsk tsk Jimmy. i don't know if you think you're being a good leader, but you're not. you don't even have a single award beside your name, moreless a championship ring on your finger...check yourself before you end up in Philadelphia

i can only hope Hoiberg laid it out straight to Butler in their little talk and let him know hes the one in charge and if he has a grievous with his coaching to come to him and not air it out to the media

i wouldn't even be mad if he choked him like Pax did Vinny lol because its looking like Jimmy needs to be put in line and quickly because hes getting a bit too brazen and if he gets a pass for calling his coach a pussy then he can do anything

knoxville7 · Dec 20, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
what a plot twist....Jimmy Butler was the rat all along. okay its not really a plot twist if you take the Rose color glasses off and realize his actions of been questionable.

his ego started to peak through last season which ironically is when the whole turmoil in the locker room started to take place and now its really coming out. cussing out the coaching staff? alienating teammates?

tsk tsk Jimmy. i don't know if you think you're being a good leader, but you're not. you don't even have a single award beside your name, moreless a championship ring on your finger...check yourself before you end up in Philadelphia

i can only hope Hoiberg laid it out straight to Butler in their little talk and let him know hes the one in charge and if he has a grievous with his coaching to come to him and not air it out to the media

i wouldn't even be mad if he choked him like Pax did Vinny lol because its looking like Jimmy needs to be put in line and quickly because hes getting a bit too brazen and if he gets a pass for calling his coach a pussy then he can do anything

his most improved player of the year award begs to differ as well as all defensive team honors. if you want to critique him fine, but don't just say shit to say it lol
im with jimmy though on all of this personally

Axl Rose · Dec 20, 2015

forgot about the MIP award but that I needs to be V and there needs to be F before the M if he wants to get talkative

if you're riding with Jimmy then don't let me hear about the Gordon sandwich incident coming from your keyboard

knoxville7 · Dec 20, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
forgot about the MIP award but that I needs to be V if he wants to get talkative

so only derrick rose is allowed to talk on this team? that makes absolutely no sense considering I think everyone will agree the less he says the better lol

Axl Rose · Dec 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
so only derrick rose is allowed to talk on this team? that makes absolutely no sense considering I think everyone will agree the less he says the better lol

added more to my post and you have already said Jimmy should keep it in house. if he wants to call a team meeting and air some stuff out im okay with that...but being disruptive and calling out his coach in the media isn't flying

knoxville7 · Dec 20, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
added more to my post and you have already said Jimmy should keep it in house. if he want to call a team meeting and air some stuff out im okay with that...but being disruptive and calling out his coach in the media isn't flying

Gordon sandwich? lol and while I would prefer he kept it in house, maybe he had tried talking to various people already and gotten nowhere and figured maybe it was time to put the team on blast. we don't know what steps he may or may not of taken before this and that's why im willing to give the benefit of the doubt for a guy who hasn't been known to cause issues ever before.

Axl Rose · Dec 20, 2015

knoxville7 said:
Gordon sandwich? lol and while I would prefer he kept it in house, maybe he had tried talking to various people already and gotten nowhere and figured maybe it was time to put the team on blast. we don't know what steps he may or may not of taken before this and that's why im willing to give the benefit of the doubt for a guy who hasn't been known to cause issues ever before.

that was joke. Gordon was eating a sandwich during a team meeting or something and Vinny told him to put it away. Gordon basically told him to fuck off. thats always brought up when discussing Gordon's character issues lol...which is over and done with now because Gordon is washed out of the league

so he went to Hoiberg and said "hey you coach like a pussy, grow a pair"? i doubt it lol...i don't even care if he did do that i still think its wrong to undermine your coach in the media...its shows a lack of respect

knoxville7 · Dec 20, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
that was joke. Gordon was eating a sandwich during a team meeting or something and Vinny told him to put it way. Gordon basically told him to fuck off. thats always brought up when discussing Gordon's character issues lol...which is over and done with now because Gordon is washed out of the league

so he went to Hoiberg and said "hey you coach like a pussy, grow a pair"? i doubt it lol i don't even care if he did do that i still think its wrong to undermine your coach in the media...its shows a lack of respect

and again that's the root of the problem, the players don't respect him. and at no point has jimmy said "hoiberg is a pussy," so no he wouldn't of told that to hoiberg. but maybe he conveyed his concerns to hoiberg or members of the FO or with his fellow players and got nowhere is all im saying. I can sympathize with his frustration

Axl Rose · Dec 21, 2015

knoxville7 said:
and again that's the root of the problem, the players don't respect him.

then what do we do? fire Hoiberg and bring in the next coach for them to have no respect for? they didn't play hard for Thibs last year either and he raised most of these guys from pups

KC said the Hoiberg made the offensive adjustments for Jimmy. so him wanting to be the 2nd coming of Iso Joe is what is holding our offense back....wow

knoxville7 · Dec 21, 2015

AirGordon7 said:
then what do we do? fire Hoiberg and bring in the next coach for them to have no respect for? they didn't play hard for Thibs last year either and he raised most of these guys from pups

KC said the Hoiberg made the offensive adjustments for Jimmy. so him wanting to be the 2nd coming of Iso Joe is what is holding our offense back....wow

I think you have some major misconceptions as to what occurred in the past. the players absolutely did play hard for thibs, even last year. not sure what you "know" that proves otherwise. and jimmy doesn't care to be the next "iso joe," he simply wants to win. he got paid big time $$ and simply wants to live up to that contract, unlike some other guy on the team that goes without mention :shrug:

Sunbiz1 · Dec 21, 2015

GalePayton said:
Look man. You're wrong. Jimmy's comments have nothing to do with Rose. The following is from KC Johnson a little while ago.

Damn near everyone in the league praises Rose for his work ethic. Hell, the guy has busted his ass rehabbing from two major knee injuries and he's finally coming around now from a broken eye socket in preseason. He's becoming healthy again, so I expect his play to get better.

Is he injury prone? ... unfortunately I have to say yes.

Does he dog it on the court? ... absolutely not. He's had the same nonchalant demeanor on the court since high school, but the entire league knows he's a hard worker.

So like I said. You're just wrong.

Now back to the topic of this thread.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...er-fred-hoiberg-spt-1221-20151220-column.html

Uh oh!

"Hell, the guy has busted his ass rehabbing from two major knee injuries"

Surely this was intended as humor.

Raskolnikov · Dec 21, 2015

Enasic said:
I mean, this roster doesn't suck but it's clearly lacking championship ingredients. Really, there's only about 3 teams that have a legitimate championship makeup/pedigree right now. That's GS, Cleveland, SA. Teams like OKC/Clips/Bulls/Rockets etc are all teams that are close, and will push some teams, but for a variety of different reasons will just come up short. So most teams are in our position, more or less.

So I think sticking with that formula and continuing to come up short is virtually insane. You need to make a move. Maybe you don't blow it up and completely plunge down the toilet, but if you're going to not be good enough, might as well not be good enough and get younger, more athletic, and hopefully build off guys with potential. Hanging onto guys like Gasol and Taj won't help you. Jimmy's really frustrated with this roster. He wants the roster to be as hungry as him. As tough as him. As tenacious as him. Outside of Noah and to a lesser extent Taj, that's not how this roster is. Jimmy's trying to call out everyone he can to get his message across and the message is really simple. Man up. Toughen up. Handle your business. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen and this team isn't going to become a championship caliber team. The Bulls need to shake things up and hope that a move like that, which they haven't done with this core, will yield better results than sticking with the status quo.

I think a lot of our disagreement comes from what you and I think is possible in sports. Nobody told Nelson his eighth seed Mavericks could win round 1. You want to throw in the towel on a clippers team that can go toe to toe with anybody but Griffin plays small come clutch time? The future is not set, OKC and the Clips are a little better than Bulls and absolutely have a chance in a seven game series with anybody. It's a bounce here and a bounce there sometimes. One hot shooter can be the difference, or one cold shooter. Golden state and San Antonio are first tier, but by no means invincible to the teams you mentioned. Maybe to the Bulls who have to get some easier buckets and better shots and don't seem to have the leadership to work together. We are in the third tier now with Atlanta and some others, but the three superstar talents is the ingredient you need. We have that if Rose steps up. I'm not counting us out, and hell no to counting the Clips out whose number one issue is giving minutes to the coaches son.

Scoot26 · Dec 21, 2015

Raskolnikov said:
I think a lot of our disagreement comes from what you and I think is possible in sports. Nobody told Nelson his eighth seed Mavericks could win round 1. You want to throw in the towel on a clippers team that can go toe to toe with anybody but Griffin plays small come clutch time? The future is not set, OKC and the Clips are a little better than Bulls and absolutely have a chance in a seven game series with anybody. It's a bounce here and a bounce there sometimes. One hot shooter can be the difference, or one cold shooter. Golden state and San Antonio are first tier, but by no means invincible to the teams you mentioned. Maybe to the Bulls who have to get some easier buckets and better shots and don't seem to have the leadership to work together. We are in the third tier now with Atlanta and some others, but the three superstar talents is the ingredient you need. We have that if Rose steps up. I'm not counting us out, and hell no to counting the Clips out whose number one issue is giving minutes to the coaches son.

So the flaw with all of this is that all these teams you listed that could do something, haven't.

There's really only one team in the last decade to "shock" us all and that was the 2011 Mavericks. Every other champion has pretty much gone according to script.

And if we're going to go by seeding as far as shock, one team has shocked.. The Houston Rockets in 1995 as a 6th seed. They were the defending champs though.

We make the same arguments every season. Just like with playing LeBron last season. EVERYONE and their mother expected the Cavs to make the Finals, and they did. But we see so much here saying "a couple of bounces our way and we're up 3-1 in that series and just need one more to win." Okay, sure. But it didn't happen that way and Cleveland went on its way to the Finals just as everyone expected.

This team isn't expected to win by the masses, the chance they do is slim to none because of that. Beyond Pau Gasol's worldy championship experience, this team doesn't have any. They can't 95 Rocket it to the championship. Nothing about this team screams win. And if Rose doesn't become more consistent with his play, this team is losing in the 1st round, I don't care what seed they have, they will lose in the 1st round with the way they're playing thus far.

houheffna · Dec 21, 2015

Raskolnikov said:
I think a lot of our disagreement comes from what you and I think is possible in sports. Nobody told Nelson his eighth seed Mavericks could win round 1. You want to throw in the towel on a clippers team that can go toe to toe with anybody but Griffin plays small come clutch time? The future is not set, OKC and the Clips are a little better than Bulls and absolutely have a chance in a seven game series with anybody. It's a bounce here and a bounce there sometimes. One hot shooter can be the difference, or one cold shooter. Golden state and San Antonio are first tier, but by no means invincible to the teams you mentioned. Maybe to the Bulls who have to get some easier buckets and better shots and don't seem to have the leadership to work together. We are in the third tier now with Atlanta and some others, but the three superstar talents is the ingredient you need. We have that if Rose steps up. I'm not counting us out, and hell no to counting the Clips out whose number one issue is giving minutes to the coaches son.

This ain't football man. No lucky bounces are lucky enough to make a team like the Bulls a championship caliber team. Just not happening. This team is average, and I don't think things would be much different under Thibs.

clonetrooper264 · Dec 21, 2015

On the topic at hand...not a good look for Jimmy. What he said may be true, and perhaps he's voiced this privately already, but imo not the best way to do things. But we'll see if the message gets across tonight. Intense and Thibs like is not Hoiberg...it's not gonna happen. Obviously he has room to improve in a lot of areas, but he's a rookie coach, it's expected. He's shown that he's willing to adjust based on what's working and what's not working eventually (ie less Niko) and he's even catered to Jimmy but running iso plays for him from last year. At the end of the day, I'm guessing a lot of this is just frustration boiling over. Again, we'll see how the team responds tonight.

knoxville7 · Dec 21, 2015

clonetrooper264 said:
On the topic at hand...not a good look for Jimmy. What he said may be true, and perhaps he's voiced this privately already, but imo not the best way to do things. But we'll see if the message gets across tonight. Intense and Thibs like is not Hoiberg...it's not gonna happen. Obviously he has room to improve in a lot of areas, but he's a rookie coach, it's expected. He's shown that he's willing to adjust based on what's working and what's not working eventually (ie less Niko) and he's even catered to Jimmy but running iso plays for him from last year. At the end of the day, I'm guessing a lot of this is just frustration boiling over. Again, we'll see how the team responds tonight.

thibs would have made hoiberg earn his minutes as a rook :smug:

Jimmy Butler calls out Hoiberg, says Fred needs to be tougher

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