2016 Draft Prospect Discussion

Nicker · Feb 11, 2016

One thing is clear in watching that, he has a wind up in his delivery and his footwork is awful. You can't be accurate with bad footwork and you can't be on time with a wind up, no matter how hard you throw it. He has some skills for sure, but he's a developmental player in my eyes.

I personally like Brandon Allen from Arkansas for a developmental player. He is probably the most polished passer in the draft behind goff and has enough arm talent to work with. Reminds me a lot of garret Grayson from last year who I really liked a lot too.

Nicker · Feb 11, 2016

Burrberry said:
Watch this footage. Memphis doesn't throw it down the field much, but this game against BYU they did and he was throwing passes on a rope and accurately down field. He did have a 2 pick 6's, but throwing down field is a different look from them, and he hung in there and accounted for 6 of Memphis' TD's with some heat coming. WR's also had some drops that would have made a difference as well.

[video=youtube;sgR-ofFLvvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgR-ofFLvvE[/video]

whoops, the post above was in reference to the Paxton Lynch video

The Doctor · Feb 11, 2016

Burrberry said:
Watch this footage. Memphis doesn't throw it down the field much, but this game against BYU they did and he was throwing passes on a rope and accurately down field. He did have a 2 pick 6's, but throwing down field is a different look from them, and he hung in there and accounted for 6 of Memphis' TD's with some heat coming. WR's also had some drops that would have made a difference as well.

I'm no expert on QB play but after watching the video I saw nothing that would make him special at the next level. By my eye test:
* He doesn't take care of the ball very well. He was often throwing it into coverage where his guy had very little chance of catching it. Plus when he takes off and runs his ball security is pathetic. He is lucky he didn't have more fumbles.
* He had a couple of OK passes but mostly his receivers were stretching, bending or jumping to get the ball.
* I didn't see the accuracy you mentioned. It looked to me like he kept on throwing it to the wrong shoulder causing the receiver to twist to try to reach it. Are these the "drops" you were talking about? If so then these drops were more on him than the guys trying to make the catch. Even Megatron would have trouble coming down with any of them.
* On the plus side he does have a strong arm and he seems to have the wide receiver bubble screens down pretty well. And the dumpoffs to the backs were also ok.

Like I said - not an expert. Probably there is something there that I am just missing, but right now my grade on him is as a 3rd round project that needs a ton of development.

WindyCity · Feb 11, 2016

After really digging into the DL class I have come away with these groupings, within a he groupings there is no particular order.

Run the pick up

Bosa
Buckner

Happy with at 11

Billings
Nkemdiche
Robinson
Rankins

Hoping they hit 41

Reed
Butler
Clark
A. Johnson

Tall Glass Of Jeffery · Feb 11, 2016

WindyCity said:
After really digging into the DL class I have come away with these groupings, within a he groupings there is no particular order.

Run the pick up

Bosa
Buckner

Happy with at 11

Billings
Nkemdiche
Robinson
Rankins

Hoping they hit 41

Reed
Butler
Clark
A. Johnson

I'd probably add Ridgeway to that list at 41

Burrberry · Feb 11, 2016

Nicker said:
One thing is clear in watching that, he has a wind up in his delivery and his footwork is awful. You can't be accurate with bad footwork and you can't be on time with a wind up, no matter how hard you throw it. He has some skills for sure, but he's a developmental player in my eyes.

I personally like Brandon Allen from Arkansas for a developmental player. He is probably the most polished passer in the draft behind goff and has enough arm talent to work with. Reminds me a lot of garret Grayson from last year who I really liked a lot too.

I think he has good feet for a man that size. The lower half of his body isn't always into his throws though I agree which is where he need some work and relies too much on arm strength. You can only get away with just gunning some stuff in there for so long in the NFL especially if you have "tells" in your throwing motion before you're done. He's fixed a bit of that "loadup" when he delivers the ball from what I've seen of late(Still with a bit of that elbows flared pitcher style though), but yeah I didn't want you to get the wrong impression. He's definitely a project. I was just thinking from the aspect of when the Bears will ever be in a good position to get a Blue chip QB prospect again like that, especially since we got Cutler and a lot of money to spend. There's more polished guys for sure around I agree and Kevin Hogan from Stanford is another one they should look at it.

WindyCity · Feb 11, 2016

Has anyone seen the amount of variation in opinions on a single guy like A'Shawn Robinson?

Kiper has him 6th
McShay 10th
Mayock as the 5th rated interior defender
Miller has him in the 20s
Jeremiah has him late teens
Bucky Brooks has him as the #1DT

What the hell is this guy?

Tall Glass Of Jeffery · Feb 11, 2016

WindyCity said:
Has anyone seen the amount of variation in opinions on a single guy like A'Shawn Robinson?

Kiper has him 6th
McShay 10th
Mayock as the 5th rated interior defender
Miller has him in the 20s
Jeremiah has him late teens
Bucky Brooks has him as the #1DT

What the hell is this guy?

I think he's a 2nd round prospect. He probably goes in the first, but the combine could tell the tale with him.

rawdawg · Feb 12, 2016

WindyCity said:
Has anyone seen the amount of variation in opinions on a single guy like A'Shawn Robinson?

Kiper has him 6th
McShay 10th
Mayock as the 5th rated interior defender
Miller has him in the 20s
Jeremiah has him late teens
Bucky Brooks has him as the #1DT

What the hell is this guy?

Yeah, it's pretty wild. I'm in the Miller/Mayock range with him. I think he definitely has some ability. I think he has a lot of similarities to an Eddie Goldman. Similar size at 6'4", 320. Similar build, but Goldman may have had more gut. Robinson definitely flashed some greatness. But I don't think he has anything he can hang his hat on. I think he'll get compared to his teammate, Reed. And I just like Reed better. Reed, you know will at least be a good run defender. He didn't put up the pass rush numbers of Robinson, but he also played the majority of his snaps at 0 and 1 tech, while Robinson was at 3 or 5. That could say more about what the Bama staff thought of Robinson's ability, but it also shows he was in more of a position to make plays.

Even compared to the other DTs in this class, I think Nkemdiche has (much?) more upside. Buckner is simply a better, more talented, more productive player. Rankins has the ability to make a huge difference in the pass rush. Reed has the makings of a dominant run defender, who I think can add more pass rush than most think (see Senior Bowl). Billings has the all around game. Clark lives in the backfield when I've seen him (though he can get himself out of position). And Butler has more upside. Not to say he's not as good a prospect as all of them, I have him right in the middle, but nowhere near a top 10 guy or a guy I'd like too much at 11.

WindyCity · Feb 12, 2016

For me when you look at Robinson he has the build of Muhammed Wilkerson, 6'4", 315 but really well built, super long arms, and more power/length than burst.

I wonder if the people who have him ranked so highly see the same thing?

Chicago4Life · Feb 12, 2016

Nkemdiche will be this year's combine workout warrior stud... the guy has incredible upside but has too many question marks to be considered at 11 imo. he has exceptional speed and movement skills, imo he would be best served as a 3tech DT where he can use that speed but the guy doesnt finish plays, his motor is hot and cold, very limited pass rush and off field incidents...

rawdawg · Feb 12, 2016

Chicago4Life said:
Nkemdiche will be this year's combine workout warrior stud... the guy has incredible upside but has too many question marks to be considered at 11 imo. he has exceptional speed and movement skills, imo he would be best served as a 3tech DT where he can use that speed but the guy doesnt finish plays, his motor is hot and cold, very limited pass rush and off field incidents...

Exceptionally strong too. He has a bunch of plays on tape where he just mauls the guard and walks him 5 yards in the backfield. I think he needs more moves than just a pure bullrush, and he needs to put together moves much better. Once he has leverage on his man, he needs to put together another move, get away from the guy and make a play. That's why his numbers never show up (along with ton of doubleteams he receives). I think he needs a really good DL coach to coach him up, my biggest concern is how much he's willing to be coached. I like him as a 3-tech most, but I think he could play the 5, and may even prefer that personally as he'd be away from double-teams. I think he has Suh/McCoy ability, though not nearly as polished as those 2 were coming out.

WindyCity · Feb 12, 2016

My concern is the following,

What are the differences between Nkemdiche and Ra'shede Hageman from a couple of seasons ago?

Chicago4Life · Feb 12, 2016

WindyCity said:
My concern is the following,

What are the differences between Nkemdiche and Ra'shede Hageman from a couple of seasons ago?

other than age, very little separate them which is why I hope Pace avoids at all costs...

rawdawg · Feb 12, 2016

WindyCity said:
My concern is the following,

What are the differences between Nkemdiche and Ra'shede Hageman from a couple of seasons ago?

Completely different players, IMO. Nkemdiche was the #1 HS recruit, so he's as talented as any player the last 5 years. Hageman's game is pure strength and leverage. Nkemdiche's is quickness to power. Hageman is going to make his money by plugging holes, taking up blockers on the line and stopping the run. Nkemdiche will make his money by getting in the backfield and wreaking havoc. But as players, they both underachieved statistically in college. But that's where the similarities stop.

Chicago4Life · Feb 12, 2016

rawdawg said:
Completely different players, IMO. Nkemdiche was the #1 HS recruit, so he's as talented as any player the last 5 years. Hageman's game is pure strength and leverage. Nkemdiche's is quickness to power. Hageman is going to make his money by plugging holes, taking up blockers on the line and stopping the run. Nkemdiche will make his money by getting in the backfield and wreaking havoc. But as players, they both underachieved statistically in college. But that's where the similarities stop.

i remember hageman being very agile and had great movement skills, a converted TE he was if not the quickest at his position, couple that with his strength and he was nearly unstoppable in college. Hageman had potential to be a pass rusher with his quickness/strength but that seems to have been stunted like rawdawg said he is now merely a run stopper.

RiDLer80 · Feb 12, 2016

WindyCity said:
For me when you look at Robinson he has the build of Muhammed Wilkerson, 6'4", 315 but really well built, super long arms, and more power/length than burst.

I wonder if the people who have him ranked so highly see the same thing?

I think the ones that have him ranked lower see his lack of pass rushing ability. They see the power and run stuffing ability, but don't see the ability to get tot he QB. At least not enough ability to warrant a top 10-15 pick.

Sagbear · Feb 12, 2016

WindyCity said:
For me when you look at Robinson he has the build of Muhammed Wilkerson, 6'4", 315 but really well built, super long arms, and more power/length than burst.

I wonder if the people who have him ranked so highly see the same thing?

To me Robinson will be better in a 4-3 as a DT, Wilkerson had crazy length 6'4 and 35 inch arms and ran 4.9 hes the ideal 3-4 DE. I just dont see the same athletic ability in Robinson.

run and shoot · Feb 12, 2016

The Doctor said:
I'm no expert on QB play but after watching the video I saw nothing that would make him special at the next level. By my eye test:
* He doesn't take care of the ball very well. He was often throwing it into coverage where his guy had very little chance of catching it. Plus when he takes off and runs his ball security is pathetic. He is lucky he didn't have more fumbles.
* He had a couple of OK passes but mostly his receivers were stretching, bending or jumping to get the ball.
* I didn't see the accuracy you mentioned. It looked to me like he kept on throwing it to the wrong shoulder causing the receiver to twist to try to reach it. Are these the "drops" you were talking about? If so then these drops were more on him than the guys trying to make the catch. Even Megatron would have trouble coming down with any of them.
* On the plus side he does have a strong arm and he seems to have the wide receiver bubble screens down pretty well. And the dumpoffs to the backs were also ok.

Like I said - not an expert. Probably there is something there that I am just missing, but right now my grade on him is as a 3rd round project that needs a ton of development.

good analysis

Gustavus Adolphus · Feb 12, 2016

WindyCity said:
Has anyone seen the amount of variation in opinions on a single guy like A'Shawn Robinson?

Kiper has him 6th
McShay 10th
Mayock as the 5th rated interior defender
Miller has him in the 20s
Jeremiah has him late teens
Bucky Brooks has him as the #1DT

What the hell is this guy?

I'm only worried about where Pace has him.

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