Blogabull - Bulls beat writers speak on team dysfunction

Axl Rose said:

Hoiberg may not ever be a good coach and there may prove to have been a better option down the road but putting the brunt of the failures on him is taking away from the real problem and that is this roster

Wilbon is kissing the players ass with his incorrect statement that Hoiberg is the biggest issue...he says Hoiberg is not the guy for the job...okay well who is, Wilbon? a top 5 coach in Thibs wasn't enough

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I disagree. Thibs had pretty much great success with that roster before Gar/Pax pulled the rug out from under him. They also refused to bring in talent to add to what was already there. This pretty much was Wilbon's point and I agree with him. Instead of giving Thibs the players that he needed to be successful, I believe that Gar/Pax became jealous of Thibs success in spite of them. They fought him on the roster and in his last season undercut him with his own players telling them not to pay attention to what he said. Fuck both of them.

Enasic said:

Well, Wilbon is right in the fact that besides management, Hoiberg IS the biggest issue. He was a terrible hire. Now, putting that aside, no matter who we brought in, this roster is way too flawed for the Bulls to seriously contend - so the roster is absolutely a gigantic issue-

That said, I honestly believe Hoiberg is a bottom 10 coach in the league. A competent coach would have had this team in the playoffs and not getting blown out by 20 points on a regular basis. No doubt about it. I think most realize that it takes more than a knowledge of X's and O's to be a successful coach. The HC needs to be a leader which encompasses a wide variety of traits that Fred clearly is missing. Those intangibles cannot be taught and are perhaps even more important than the X's and O's. It was a disastrous hire because IMO, he cannot improve on his weaknesses. As far as those intangibles go, he may be the worst in the league. To say he's a fish out of water as an NBA HC might be putting it too nicely.

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Wilbon never said "other than management" from what i recall ...i think we are on the same page though as im not arguing that Hoiberg isn't a problem but hes not the main one im focused on right now

who cares if this mythical coach could have got us in the playoffs. that only mask the issue of the flawed roster that needs to be addressed and hopefully will be addressed now.....once it is its then its time to focus on Hoiberg

to touch on the other point Hoiberg may have been a bad hire in the sense that hes not good but at the time there wasn't any other great options imo which makes firing Thibs a mistake to start with

Axl Rose said:

Wilbon never said "other than management" from what i recall ...i think we are on the same page though as im not arguing that Hoiberg isn't a problem but hes not the main one im focused on right now

who cares if this mythical coach could have got us in the playoffs. that only mask the issue of the flawed roster that needs to be addressed and hopefully will be addressed now.....once it is its then its time to focus on Hoiberg

to touch on the other point Hoiberg may have been a bad hire in the sense that hes not good but at the time there wasn't any other great options imo which makes firing Thibs a mistake to start with

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All signs point to Thibs wearing on the players and obviously he did not have a functional relationship with the front office. Only way Thibs could have stayed is if Garpax were both fired. Either way, it's not just that "Hoiberg isn't good" it's that he's terrible. He's one of the worst coaches in the league. The Bulls could have hired pretty much anybody else and have done a better job. They also gave him a 5 fucking year deal. No matter how you slice it, it was just a horrible decision by a grossly incompetent front office. It's really sad...our management is terrible, our HC is terrible, and our roster is not nearly good enough. Unfortunately, we need better management to fix the coaching problem and the roster problem. That won't happen for at least another 2-3 years if it happens at all.

i think you're being a bit ridiculous. we still won 42 games which is about average (which is what this team truly is) i guess everybody is so used overachieving that regressing to the mean is like winning 15 games

you said you need more than X & O's as a coach...that insinuates you think he alteast has a grasp on that much

as far as getting players to buy in and all that, i'd have to see him with players that don't have their own agenda in mind....i don't think anybody short of Pop would've got the respect from this team

Hoiberg needs to work on adjustments mostly (4th quarter execution was horrid) and out of timeout plays...those were the key areas that i think he showed definite flaws in

Axl Rose said:

i think you're being a bit ridiculous. we still won 42 games which is about average (which is what this team truly is) i guess everybody is so used overachieving that regressing to the mean is like winning 15 games

you said you need more than X & O's as a coach...that insinuates you think he alteast has a grasp on that much

as far as getting players to buy in and all that, i'd have to see him with players that don't have their own agenda in mind....i don't think anybody short of Pop would've got the respect from this team

Hoiberg needs to work on adjustments mostly (4th quarter execution was horrid) and out of timeout plays...those were the key areas that i think he showed definite flaws in

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I think he's decent at X's and O's. I think he understands basically philosophy. I think offensively he has a good system, although not the right personnel. That said, part of being a good coach is adjusting to your personnel. He definitely needs work on out of timeout plays. He often looks clueless when trying to draw up a play.

I don't think I"m being ridiculous at all. We won 42 games but it was the ugliest, most disjointed 42 wins I've witnessed. We got blown out a ton. Just completely embarrassed more than we should have been and that to me goes to a lack of preparation and a lack of getting your guys ready. He just seemed content to be mediocre. Hoiberg to me is more of a front office type. Very cerebral, non emotional...he kind of distances himself from everything and takes a look from afar. Good analytically. That's all good for a GM or VP but not as a HC. But that's just who he is. That's his personality. You can't change that. Honestly, I'm not sure what you're arguing. Are you saying Hoiberg isn't a terrible coach? Decent? Good? What's your stance here?

not good...but im being very lenient with him because hes young, it was his first year, and i think he was dealt a bad hand inheriting a team that as you put it "the wheels were coming off" the year prior

i think most of the problems stem from being in over his head...i think he could be great with a team like the Wolves a team thats young and eager to win games and he wouldn't have to worry about stepping on anybodies toes

thats one of Hoiberg's biggest issues with holding ppl accountable...he was scared to ruffle any feathers and get that player against him which only turned them against him...talk about a lose lose

Axl Rose said:

not good...but im being very lenient with him because hes young, it was his first year, and i think he was dealt a bad hand inheriting a team that as you put it "the wheels were coming off" the year prior

i think most of the problems stem from being in over his head...i think he could be great with a team like the Wolves a team thats young and eager to win games and he wouldn't have to worry about stepping on anybodies toes

thats one of Hoiberg's biggest issues with holding ppl accountable...he was scared to ruffle any feathers and get that player against him which only turned them against him...talk about a lose lose

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Fair enough. I just don't like his demeanor or personality type for a HC. Way too laid back and timid. Too complacent and monotonous. He has to be one of the only coaches in the league who barely engages with the refs. Way too choir boy on the sidelines. His talks during timeouts are weak. I just think he's a terrible fit for a HC. Completely uninspiring and dispassionate. Just my opinion though.

Management is the main problem, not Hoiberg. Hoiberg was dealt a horrible hand due to GarPax sitting on theirs during the off-season. They sold Reinsdorf and the entire fan base on him being the savior that would take the same heartless roster from the previous year into championship contention. I didn't believe that line of bullshit from the start but unfortunately a good deal of people did. When the majority of players on the roster don't know how to scrimmage AT ALL, have little to no chemistry on or off the court, how did they expect them to succeed in an offense predicated by pushing the ball & creating on the go? The simple answer is that GarPax wasn't thinking of that. They were thinking we've spent 5 years dealing with a stubborn hard head whom we can't control. They were thinking we need a guy we know who is respectful, quiet, and will tow the company line any way we want him to. We need a yes man. And that's what they found in Fred Hoiberg. And that's not to totally knock him because I think he is a very capable coach given the right players, & time to develop his system without having to deal with selfish player agendas, and injury after injury. It was clear that when they actually pushed the ball and played the style that Fred wanted to play, the offense was flowing very well and shots were coming easily.

The most unfortunate aspect of all of this is how much fame has changed Jimmy Butler. I absolutely LOVED this kid even back when he was playing at Marquette. Now, I can't stand to hear his name. His true colors are shown bright and boy are they hideous. He cannot be back on this team next season if the Bulls wish to accomplish anything. Not only did he publicly throw Hoiberg under the bus, he purposely torpedoed his system because he felt it didn't fit his game, pouted when he didn't get his way, talked and talked and talked all the time about being a leader instead of actually BEING A LEADER, plastered himself all over instagram and twitter promoting whatever the hell it was this week, clashed with players and coaches during film sessions, and then forced his way into the last two meaningless games of the season so he could say "I don't quit!" (unlike Rose and Pau *wink wink *nudge nudge).

I never thought that a player like him would do such a complete 180 after getting a big contract but lessons are learned each day. I want him traded, preferably to the Celtics or Magic to get picks and young talent. I will not be able to stomach watching his self-aggrandizing ass slowly dribble up the ball into a back down ISO play every time. I will simply stop watching the Bulls altogether.

Let's go back to our initial gripe with Thibs.

Our issue with Thibs is that he would grind players into the ground. Players like Jimmy Butler...running around on new legs...can take that kind of pressure and improve. People with older legs like Pau and Noah...or NO legs like D Rose...aren't built for that. The Bulls would have a legitimate shot at SOMETHING had they brought Thibs back since, obviously...hiring the Jerry Reinsdorf Fan Club (FO) was NOT happening.

So...my honest opinion is we are heading back to the dark ages. Yes...that's right citizens...we are going back to the Air Gordon/No Hands Chand/Curry-on-my-Burgers-Please era of Chicago ball.

This iteration is a wrap. The only bright spot for me is that I moved from Chicago this year so they won't televise every game here.

I'm going to hate rooting for this transition until 2021 or so.

theinfamousdvs said:

Let's go back to our initial gripe with Thibs.

Our issue with Thibs is that he would grind players into the ground. Players like Jimmy Butler...running around on new legs...can take that kind of pressure and improve. People with older legs like Pau and Noah...or NO legs like D Rose...aren't built for that. The Bulls would have a legitimate shot at SOMETHING had they brought Thibs back since, obviously...hiring the Jerry Reinsdorf Fan Club (FO) was NOT happening.

So...my honest opinion is we are heading back to the dark ages. Yes...that's right citizens...we are going back to the Air Gordon/No Hands Chand/Curry-on-my-Burgers-Please era of Chicago ball.

This iteration is a wrap. The only bright spot for me is that I moved from Chicago this year so they won't televise every game here.

I'm going to hate rooting for this transition until 2021 or so.

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The problem that I see is that they never gave Thibs a needed piece to win a championship. They have need a shooting guard/Small forward for years. They need a good point guard for a long time. These two positions were affordable and required. Then think about their failure to replace Korver. Gar/Pax are pieces of shit and Reinny is a cheap ass SOB. Period, the END!

Axl Rose said:

not good...but im being very lenient with him because hes young, it was his first year, and i think he was dealt a bad hand inheriting a team that as you put it "the wheels were coming off" the year prior

i think most of the problems stem from being in over his head...i think he could be great with a team like the Wolves a team thats young and eager to win games and he wouldn't have to worry about stepping on anybodies toes

thats one of Hoiberg's biggest issues with holding ppl accountable...he was scared to ruffle any feathers and get that player against him which only turned them against him...talk about a lose lose

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Nah. I think that head coaches pretty much should be PRICKS when it comes to running the team. Someone on the team has to be the bad ass and if not a player them the damn coach better be it. A college coach is so much different than a pro coach. College coaches are like Gods in that they totally control everything including the ability to pull scholarships and order suspensions. So here you have a nice guy, Freddie, reasonably successful in college who is fishing buddies and campout shit with Gar and somehow going to be more successful than one of the more bad assed coaches in the NBA in Thibs? Not going to happen