Bears have a real draft plan with Pace..

mattb78 · May 2, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
Who did he beat out for that all-rookie spot?

He beat out Landon Collins, the consensus #1 safety in the draft selected at #33, and Damarious Randall selected at 28.

Washington · May 2, 2016

As someone else stated, Amos started because we had no other choices. He was a good and capable tackler but struggled with coverage. He only had 4 passes defended with 0 INTs, 0 FFs, and 0 FRs. Those are not good numbers for a starting safety. He needs to show lots of improvement.

Langford has hands of stone and he has a lower than wanted YPC (3.6). He led the team in drops (7) in limited playing time compared to others dropping a whopping 16.7% of the passes tossed his way. If he can't improve there, his playing time will be limited. He also has to become a much better blocker.

I concur too that Goldman was the win of this draft class with the jury still out on White. Calling the 2015 draft class a success is a reach, as is calling it poor. Too early to tell but based off year 1 alone, it was below average. Grasu was brutally bad and had to be benched and our last pick never saw the field.

The 2016 draft grade will be impacted by what Floyd becomes. Right now, he's a project and will be a situational pass rusher in sub packages unless he somehow really surprises and beats out Houston who played really well the 2nd half of last year. I don't see that happening in year 1. With the 9th pick in the draft, it is not unrealistic to want a 3 down player who starts his rookie year. That is why so many people were opposed to taking a QB with 11 knowing they would sit initially.

Bearly · May 2, 2016

FireFox said:
His mother is a beached whale.

That's what she said last night, oh wait!

FirstTimer · May 2, 2016

Smokey Robinson said:
I agree with this overall but I think there is something to be said for Amos starting 16 games and, for the most part, not making mistakes. .

Is there? Especially the starting thing. We went through this a few years ago when everyone was gushing about all Emery's picks starting..but that was because the team sucked so bad and Emery was having to replace a bunch of Angelo guys. The rookies were kind of forced into action because they were they only ones really on the roster at some positions. Seems like we are having the same conversation now. I'm not saying Pace is Emery I'm simply saying a rookie starting and playing a lot on a bad unit and a bad team that's rebuilding isn't necessarily indicative of anything relative to how good that player really is.

GSH_34 · May 2, 2016

Pace makes sure there is class balance. Both positionally and in terms of the types of players he gets.

He takes safe picks like Whitehair, Bullard and Howard. He takes developmental guys like Hall, Bush, DHC and he takes upside guys like Floyd.

He also gives his coaches new shiny toys to play with and develop.

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GSH_34 · May 2, 2016

Komodo Dragon said:
I don't really think this was planned out, Green Bay traded up one spot in front of us and stole Spriggs and Pace panicked

The draft never happens exactly the way you want it to.

Case and point the Giants. Once Conklin was taken, they should've either been on the phones to trade down or had their strategy mapped out in case Floyd was the next pick at 9.

Reese was pretty dejected Thursday night after the draft, which tells me he wasn't ready for those 2 to be off the board. That's panicking.

Trading down because your #1 target is off the board isn't panicking. Pace was prepared and it showed throughout the draft with how he maneuvered up and down and took BPA.

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mattb78 · May 2, 2016

I started this thread because many of recognize we have a true professional now at the head of the Bears organization, and we are happy about it.

1). Giving a 4th to move from 9 to 11. Good job not overpaying.
2). Getting 2 4th rounders by moving from 41 to 49
3). Having a plan at backup QB if the draft didn't fall right at QB
4). Not drafting a player nobody has fucking heard of and have the draft experts say the guy was projected to go 3 rounds later (remember Dan Baziun)

Pace has his shit together.

Washington · May 2, 2016

mattb78 said:
Pace has his shit together.

You need to read some of the other threads out there. According to many, Fox did the drafting and Pace just massaged his feet and wiped the sweat off his brows.

Smokey Robinson · May 2, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Is there? Especially the starting thing. We went through this a few years ago when everyone was gushing about all Emery's picks starting..but that was because the team sucked so bad and Emery was having to replace a bunch of Angelo guys. The rookies were kind of forced into action because they were they only ones really on the roster at some positions. Seems like we are having the same conversation now. I'm not saying Pace is Emery I'm simply saying a rookie starting and playing a lot on a bad unit and a bad team that's rebuilding isn't necessarily indicative of anything relative to how good that player really is.

My point was more to the fact that he played, mainly, mistake-free football as a 16 game starter rather than how he got those starts to begin with. He was an average starter as a rookie (I know nothing to write home about) and I think there is potential for growth. Considering the fact rookie DBs tend to get torched I will take average provided there is room for improvement. Year 2 should be telling for what Amos is and is not.

truthbedamned · May 2, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Is there? Especially the starting thing. We went through this a few years ago when everyone was gushing about all Emery's picks starting..but that was because the team sucked so bad and Emery was having to replace a bunch of Angelo guys. The rookies were kind of forced into action because they were they only ones really on the roster at some positions. Seems like we are having the same conversation now. I'm not saying Pace is Emery I'm simply saying a rookie starting and playing a lot on a bad unit and a bad team that's rebuilding isn't necessarily indicative of anything relative to how good that player really is.

Don't forget Amos was named to the all rookie team. Don't think that would have happened if he truly sucked. But I am reserving judgement until I see how he plays this year. He needs to step up. He is going to have a rookie playing next to him.

FirstTimer · May 2, 2016

truthbedamned said:
Don't forget Amos was named to the all rookie team. Don't think that would have happened if he truly sucked. But I am reserving judgement until I see how he plays this year. He needs to step up. He is going to have a rookie playing next to him.

This has been addressed ad nauseum. That all rookie team selection means almost nothing.

Mongo_76 · May 2, 2016

FirstTimer said:
This has been addressed ad nauseum. That all rookie team selection means almost nothing.

You're not allowed to be critical, even if realistically, on this MB.

Now stop it.

FirstTimer · May 2, 2016

Smokey Robinson said:
My point was more to the fact that he played, mainly, mistake-free football as a 16 game starter rather than how he got those starts to begin with. He was an average starter as a rookie (I know nothing to write home about) and I think there is potential for growth. Considering the fact rookie DBs tend to get torched I will take average provided there is room for improvement. Year 2 should be telling for what Amos is and is not.

My issue is Amos was perhaps historically unproductive as a 16 game starter. Major Wright gets dragged through the mud around here and even he was more productive as a Bear. Amos might end up being a serviceable NFL safety for a marginal or average defense but for a guy who played 16 games last year he did virtually nothing.

Mongo_76 · May 2, 2016

truthbedamned said:
Don't forget Amos was named to the all rookie team. Don't think that would have happened if he truly sucked. But I am reserving judgement until I see how he plays this year. He needs to step up. He is going to have a rookie playing next to him.

Amos didn't suck. I don't think anyone said he did.

He was just... meh...

For a guy who got to play because the defense was woefully thin and he was pretty much all that was left, he was mostly a non-factor. Did nothing really great, and didn't show up on too many highlight reels by many mistakes.

FirstTimer · May 2, 2016

I addressed this Amos stuff months ago. I'll repost what I said then.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/76399-How-much-faith-do-you-have-in-Pace/page4

I like Amos, but he really was. Being "good" in relative context to what you'd expect from a 5th round first year safety does not make him "good" in overall relative context to the rest of the NFL.

Amos right now is REALLY limited in pass coverage. He's a good and could end up being a very good run fit safety but in today's NFL that doesn't really matter as much as it used to. A guy like Amos to me is a safety that came into the league 15-20 years too late for what he does best.

I had this discussion with people during Emery's last season but we need to be careful over hyping rookies seeing playing time as "OMG the GM drafted so well." The Bears roster overall was(is?) so devoid of talent that some of these guys HAVE to start just by function of the roster composition. I like Pace long term but other than Goldman being a solid starter I'm not sure I'm "up" on any of his other picks at this point.

Amos I like his longer term potential as a possible rotational safety and ST guy but it's too early to say.

None of this is an indictment of Pace at all. It's just saying it's way too early for a fair evaluation of any kind.

I'll try to look later but I imagine the pool was pretty thin given that Amos stats(0 INT's, 1 sack, 2 passes defensed, 0 FF, 0 FR's) don't really lead themselves to him making any sort of meaningful team. I would guess the main numbers that got him the award were "games started" and "snaps played"

I feel somewhat bad here if I'm coming off as trashing on Amos because as I said earlier I like him as a player and really this year should have been a "redshirt" year of sorts for him. He really shouldn't have seen this much action. End of the day and his career years 2-3 will be much better signs of the type of player he is. He could turn into a middle of the road safety or end up like Bobby Gray. Gray was a 5th round safety who didn't see any real action as a rookie in 2002 but in 2003 started half the season for a depleted Bears defense, made some plays, and looked "promising" at the time...Once the defense got healthy in 2004 it was pretty clear to see he only looked decent in 2003 because the surrounding cast was so bad the previous year and the promise was a mirage......he was out of the NFL by 2005.

Amos could go either way. It's rather odd because for a player who made 16 starts he's pretty much a huge mystery because he seemingly had zero impact and didn't really do much with most of those starts. He had some nice run fit hits but in today's NFL I'm much more focused on how he is in pass coverage, which was his huge issue last year.

To me Amos was a bottom 10 starting safety in the NFL last year rather easily.Where you slot him in that bottom 10 is up to you but if Rory has him at the bottom, so be it. I don't think Amos was that bad but he was easily closer to the worst safety than he was to the best. He had virtually zero production on a defense that was pretty poor. He did some good things in the run game at time but his pass defense was pretty poor. I'm not really even making any predictions for Amos' career based off his rookie year because it was so bland and non-descript. All I can say is that he needs to get a ton better in pass coverage.

For as much as Major Wright got shit on in Chicago in his first action as a starter he started 11 games, had 41 tackles, 3 INT's scored a TD, and had 6 passes defensed. The biggest indictment of Amos to me is in his pass defense, which in today's NFL at the safety position counts for more than the run game. I can't call Amos an average or adequate safety if he struggles in the most important part of the job.

Pace "found a better safety than what the Bears have had". Ok a "win" of sorts but big picture it doesn't mean much right now. If Pace bought one year of stability at the position or maybe two that's a positive of sorts as it allows him to move forward in other areas that are "more important" but where I think we need to step back is in the evaluation of what Amos does or means LONG TERM and big (Super Bowl/playoff) picture for this franchise. It's two separate evaluations and we need to be careful in not confusing them because adequate or stable in the short term doesn't necessarily translate to the long term/big picture(for that specific player).

Essentially if Pace knowing Amos can hold down the fort for a couple seasons allows the Bears to allocate resources to other areas like QB, LT, WR, RB, LB, DL, CB, whatever and they don't have to worry about one safety spot while Pace sures up other areas that's good. Then in 2-3 years when Amos has served his purpose you go back and upgrade over the top of him as some final pieces to the puzzle as he helped afford you the time to get other players in other positions.

It's entirely possible that in seven years if the Bears win a Super Bowl Amos isn't on the roster but you can look back at all the moves and draft picks and say "Hey, taking Amos bought us a couple years at safety where we didn't have to reach for a player so we could take guys X, Y, Z that were all major contributors to the SB run."

Mongo_76 · May 2, 2016

If they somehow found a way to apply a WAR stat to NFL players, Amos probably was somewhere between -1 and zero.

I guess most would say that is good for a 5th rounder.

But truth is, once you're a starting player in the NFL, you're draft pick # is actually an irrelevant factor to on-field play. I would say it's not impressive for an NFL starter.

You can give the pick a grade of a B. But the player is probably a C or C-.

pseudonym · May 2, 2016

Looks like we have ONE NEW STARTER from the rookie class already!

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/CHI

didshereallysaythat · May 2, 2016

Mongo_76 said:
Amos didn't suck. I don't think anyone said he did.

He was just... meh...

For a guy who got to play because the defense was woefully thin and he was pretty much all that was left, he was mostly a non-factor. Did nothing really great, and didn't show up on too many highlight reels by many mistakes.

Yeah but a 5th round rookie thrown into the fire as a starting safety in a pass happy league and playing "meh" is actually a good sign that he can improve on that. That is like someone showing up to buds training to be a Seal and not crying like a little baby after the first week. It shows potential.

didshereallysaythat · May 2, 2016

Mongo_76 said:
If they somehow found a way to apply a WAR stat to NFL players, Amos probably was somewhere between -1 and zero.

I guess most would say that is good for a 5th rounder.

But truth is, once you're a starting player in the NFL, you're draft pick # is actually an irrelevant factor to on-field play. I would say it's not impressive for an NFL starter.

You can give the pick a grade of a B. But the player is probably a C or C-.

But I would argue that someone having a -0.5 WAR as a rookie as a safety in a pass happy league vs some of the most potent offenses in the NFL is a good sign that they can be very good once they hit their prime. It is not guaranteed and we will indeed see how he improves. But, very rarely does a rookie safety light the league on fire.

Mongo_76 · May 2, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
But I would argue that someone having a -0.5 WAR as a rookie as a safety in a pass happy league vs some of the most potent offenses in the NFL is a good sign that they can be very good once they hit their prime. It is not guaranteed and we will indeed see how he improves. But, very rarely does a rookie safety light the league on fire.

Sure.

No disagreement on potential. He has some.

But there is a lot to be noted on how he was used and why he was almost a ghost (good or bad) on highlight reels.

He was coached to not take chances. He played deep (a lot) and was coached not to let guys get behind him. He was coached to play it safe.

In other words, he was coached the way Cutler was. DOn't take chances, dink and dunk, low risk, low reward.

It will be interesting to see if he can elevate his game when asked to actually play an aggressive FS role.

Bears have a real draft plan with Pace..

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