OT: Most underrated "great/very good" team you've seen

FirstTimer · Jun 6, 2016

Jumping off from the discussion in the Finals Thread...

Mine would be the '93 Suns. I believe they were the best team the Western Conference produced from about 1988 to the emergence of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers in the early 2000's.

They are a bit forgotten in a sense because they only had a one year run but these Golden St. Warriors remind me of an amped up version of them.

The team ran incredibly deep and could play multiple styles with ease.(Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Dumas, Ainge, Ceballos, Tom Chambers, Mark West, Oliver Miller)

They were the only team during the Bulls run during the 90's that really scared me. The Jazz never concerned me. Big props to Kenny Smith for putting it really well on an Open Court a while back as to why those Rockets teams feared the Suns more than the Jazz. His explanation was that they never really felt the Jazz, as a product of their system, would or could run away from you. You always felt you'd be at worst in a 7-8pt deficit and they weren't going to explode. Those Suns teams could explode and put a lot of point on you really quickly and in a matter of minutes run away with the game. The Suns were more dangerous in more ways. That 93 Finals you never really felt like the Bulls had control. Every other Finals series, even when the games were tight, you had that feeling.."Ok the Bulls are going to pull this out...they can control this team..." Against the Suns you were kind of white knuckling it every game until the horn hoping the Suns didn't go off.

Thoughts?

SilenceS · Jun 6, 2016

'96 Supersonics. Loved that team. George Karl did an awful job coaching, but that was a real good team. Gary Payton bulldog mentality was always fun to watch. I think all Spurs championship teams are under rated. Sure, they won the championships but everyone always just kind of move on because they didnt have big personalities.

Crystallas · Jun 6, 2016

MOST underrated? I agree the Suns get shafted when people rank the Bulls toughest finals opponents, but they were the toughest, deepest, and most controlled team Jordan did face. But being in that line of trivia question answers, they do get a lot of respect still from fans that experienced the whole deal.

I would say the 87 Bucks are the most underrated of teams I have seen. They have gone completely forgotten, and aren't even given the respect of being an afterthought in the Magic vs Bird era. That was a no-frill, no real star team, maybe the lack of star power was due to small markets getting no love, who knows. But wow they were a fun team to watch, and you could never count them out. One basket was the difference between them running the table that season, and they had the physical depth to absorb the hard play from Detroit in the ECF. They matched up with the Lakers no problem, and retired Dr J.

Not saying the best team ever, but underrated? Yeah, I have yet to see any mention of this team, this season from them, any "remember those 87 Bucks and how close they were" talks. By definition, I can't think of a more underrated team that I have watched. Further proof would be the amount of people who never heard of the 87 Bucks are a great underrated team, that are probably trying to analyze a BBref page or wikipedia to catch themselves up.

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Jumping off from the discussion in the Finals Thread...

Mine would be the '93 Suns. I believe they were the best team the Western Conference produced from about 1988 to the emergence of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers in the early 2000's.

They are a bit forgotten in a sense because they only had a one year run but these Golden St. Warriors remind me of an amped up version of them.

The team ran incredibly deep and could play multiple styles with ease.(Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Dumas, Ainge, Ceballos, Tom Chambers, Mark West, Oliver Miller)

Before Barkley was traded there before the 92-93, that Phoenix team was just really lacking that one Superstar type player. Barkley was it, and it showed with the 92-93 season as they jumped to #1 in offense while not sacrificing their defense. Even before then they were consistently Top 10 in both categories, but the early 90's West was pretty stacked.

Much like you have alluded to in today's Thunder, the Suns often lost to the representative of the Western Conference in the Finals (and sometime the champion)

1989 L vs LAL 4-0 in the WCF
1990 L vs POR 4-2 in the WCF
1991 L vs UTH 3-1 in the 1st
1992 L vs POR 4-1 in the 2nd Round
1993 L vs CHI 4-2 in the Finals
1994 L vs HOU 4-3 in the 2nd Round
1995 L vs HOU 4-3 in the 2nd Round

In 1996 they fell off and ended up a 7th seed and lost in the 1st. Barkley then left for Houston.

So in that round they were bounced by the champion/finals team 6/7 times during that era.

While I was too young to care about basketball beyond the Bulls winning the championship when the 93 Finals happened, I can't say I ever had those feelings you speak of, but I certainly know people who recall that. Part of it I feel like is because the Bulls kinda slacked that season and didn't even have the #1 seed. While Phoenix played ball out. The fact the Bulls went up 2-0 on the road, and took a 3-1 series lead in that Final really speaks to what Jordan could do.

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

Crystallas said:
MOST underrated? I agree the Suns get shafted when people rank the Bulls toughest finals opponents, but they were the toughest, deepest, and most controlled team Jordan did face. But being in that line of trivia question answers, they do get a lot of respect still from fans that experienced the whole deal.

I would say the 87 Bucks are the most underrated of teams I have seen. They have gone completely forgotten, and aren't even given the respect of being an afterthought in the Magic vs Bird era. That was a no-frill, no real star team, maybe the lack of star power was due to small markets getting no love, who knows. But wow they were a fun team to watch, and you could never count them out. One basket was the difference between them running the table that season, and they had the physical depth to absorb the hard play from Detroit in the ECF. They matched up with the Lakers no problem, and retired Dr J.

Not saying the best team ever, but underrated? Yeah, I have yet to see any mention of this team, this season from them, any "remember those 87 Bucks and how close they were" talks. By definition, I can't think of a more underrated team that I have watched. Further proof would be the amount of people who never heard of the 87 Bucks are a great underrated team, that are probably trying to analyze a BBref page or wikipedia to catch themselves up.

I've been doing this nerd thing of going back and see what playoff teams were Top 10 in Off Rat and Def Rat over the years and came across those Bucks team a lot in the 80's. They lacked the Superstar needed to beat any of Boston, Philly, or Detroit though. They made a few ECF's but never really seemed to give it much of a series against either Boston or Philly. They did take Philly to 7 games in the 2nd in 1981. (Another interesting note about 1981 is that 3 teams in the East won 60 games. Something that hasn't happened in the Eastern Conference since then, though we came close in 2009).

Crystallas · Jun 6, 2016

Superstars are a relative construct with just as much hype factored in as skill. Send some small market teams into a big market, and a lot changes as to who is regarded as a superstar.

You could even say, "underrated" as the topic suggests, lacking that hyped player might be more evident to support an argument to whether some team gets fairly "rated".

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

As far as Most Underrated I could see.. That's tough to say...

There's cases to be made on a lot of teams.

-2002 Sacramento Kings
-2005-2007 Phoenix Suns
-1993-1997 Seattle Sonics
-1995 San Antonio Spurs

But I can't really say I ever had a favorite. Probably would have the be the 2002 Kings due to the fact their only real flaw against that Lakers team was shitty luck (the Horry three) and shitty refs.

In the case of the D'Antoni Phoenix Suns you can easily tell why they lost every year. They didn't play defense, something thats very important come playoff time.

I'm not sure what the Sonics problem was, especially in 94, when they won 63 games and proceeded to lose the 8th seeded Nuggets in the first round.

The 95 Spurs just seemed to fold against a defending champion.

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

Crystallas said:
Superstars are a relative construct with just as much hype factored in as skill. Send some small market teams into a big market, and a lot changes as to who is regarded as a superstar.

You could even say, "underrated" as the topic suggests, lacking that hyped player might be more evident to support an argument to whether some team gets fairly "rated".

Well, I have my own personal definition of a Superstar. Yes, markets could indeed come into play for that, but how I determine them doesn't really account for that.

Teams that lacked hyped star players though, it kinda makes it hard given how star driven the league is especially in terms of success.

You'd have to look at teams that gathered a large following like any Don Nelson coached team (which includes the Bucks you picked). None of those teams had great stars outside of Dirk (and Dirk never succeeded with him).

Enasic · Jun 6, 2016

2002 Sac Kings for sure. They should have beaten that Lakers squad.

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

Enasic said:
2002 Sac Kings for sure. They should have beaten that Lakers squad.

The team is most interesting for sure. If you were to look on paper you'd say the Superstar power won out in the end...

The 2001-2002 Kings
61-21
3rd in offense, 6th in defense

Featured an high 2nd tier star in Chris Webber (knock on him was his health). Peja was the team's other star in the prime of his career. Mike Bibby had a great playoff (his season was meh). And I'd say they had a well rounded lineup. Christie was the lockdown defender, Peja could shoot the three, Turkoglu and Bobby Jackson were great off the bench. Divac was an anchor in the middle (though aging at this point).

But they lacked that superstar power, and well they lost in the end, kinda making the NBA what it is again. But...really, just a grabbed rebound away from being up 3-1 in the series and then a couple of unfortunate foul calls in Game 6 from clinching the series. Another few bounces in Game 7 from winning that one as well. They could have done it, and whomever won that series was going to slaughter the New Jersey Nets in the Finals.

Enasic · Jun 6, 2016

Lol that Nets team...those few years had to have been the weakest the East has ever been, right?

Gustavus Adolphus · Jun 6, 2016

I have to agree with that 2002 Kings team. A lot of characters on that team, and I think they got jobbed.

The 1995 Orlando Magic team was great, they just unfortunately ran into the greatest center I've ever seen. Looking back on it, and I'm sure some may disagree, but Brian Hill was an awful coach.

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

Enasic said:
Lol that Nets team...those few years had to have been the weakest the East has ever been, right?

Yeah the East from 2000-2004 is some of the worst. I think we're back to that at this moment except LeBron is better than anything at all the East offered then.

The East's best stars were Iverson and Kidd then. Iverson dragged that shitty Sixers team to the Finals in 2001. Miller's 2000 Pacers were actually decent, but really besides Miller there were no stars on that team. East didn't pick up until LeBron and Wade came along (and Shaq was traded to MIA).

It also still baffles me how the 2004 Pistons won a championship amidst all of this.

Scoot26 · Jun 6, 2016

Gustavus Adolphus said:
I have to agree with that 2002 Kings team. A lot of characters on that team, and I think they got jobbed.

The 1995 Orlando Magic team was great, they just unfortunately ran into the greatest center I've ever seen. Looking back on it, and I'm sure some may disagree, but Brian Hill was an awful coach.

I've always wonder if Shaq re-signed with Orlando and Penny never had injury problems and they go along their natural progressions and grow as a team, if they manage to beat Chicago by 97-98 or not.

FirstTimer · Jun 6, 2016

SilenceS said:
'96 Supersonics. Loved that team. George Karl did an awful job coaching, but that was a real good team. Gary Payton bulldog mentality was always fun to watch. I think all Spurs championship teams are under rated. Sure, they won the championships but everyone always just kind of move on because they didnt have big personalities.

LOL What?

SilenceS · Jun 7, 2016

FirstTimer said:
LOL What?

He did a poor job coaching that series. George Karl was a terrific coach and brought defense to the supersonics. But, Gary Payton should have drew Jordan from the beginning and Payton wanted the job from the beginning. Jordan is Jordan, but Payton gave him fits and gave the supersonics a slim glimmer of hope. Those supersonic teams all under achieved for how good they were.

FirstTimer · Jun 7, 2016

SilenceS said:
He did a poor job coaching that series. George Karl was a terrific coach and brought defense to the supersonics. But, Gary Payton should have drew Jordan from the beginning and Payton wanted the job from the beginning. Jordan is Jordan, but Payton gave him fits and gave the supersonics a slim glimmer of hope. Those supersonic teams all under achieved for how good they were.

You could make an argument that aside from the Rockets and Jazz every WC team in that era "underachieved". The West was a meat grinder. The notion that Payton gave Jordan fits really only rang true for one game. It's this weird narrative that took over. Game 4 Jordan shot poorly but the next night he came back and shot 50% against Payton and in Game 6 Payton wasn't even really covering Jordan that much and Jordan still shot like garbage. The series could have been over in five games if Pippen doesn't shoot 5-20 in Game 5.

Axl Rose · Jun 7, 2016

2004 Pacers lol

had that brawl never happened i'm positive Pacers were finals bound

Scoot26 · Jun 7, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
That series was complete crap. Uninspiring. The only things I remember are Frank Brickowski's thug tactics, and Randy Brown jumping on the basketball at the final buzzer. Everything else is a blur.

As I was 8 years old then, I feel much the same. I remember as much about that series as you.

Sent from the mod retirement home in Bakersfield, California.

Scoot26 · Jun 7, 2016

Axl Rose said:
2004 Pacers lol

had that brawl never happened i'm positive Pacers were finals bound

Well they won 61 games in 2003-2004 and lost to the Pistons in the ecf. Hard to say if they get the Pistons the next season or not has the brawl never happened. But it certainly did set that team back.

Sent from the mod retirement home in Bakersfield, California.

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