Would you be a fan of legalizing PEDs?

Don't Care · Jul 5, 2016

Smokey Robinson said:
This. Having drugs in your system and being caught with the actual substance(s) are two entirely different things.

Ok then why would it matter if the NFL came out and said they weren't going to test for steroids anymore? The players assume both personal and legal responsibility.

My point is that the NFL ruling against steroids isn't what keeps players out of legal trouble if they choose to use them.

FirstTimer · Jul 6, 2016

Don't Care said:
Ok then why would it matter if the NFL came out and said they weren't going to test for steroids anymore? The players assume both personal and legal responsibility.

.

LOL, a lot of these PED's are illegal controlled substances. By legalizing PED's in sports you'd essentially be telling every local, state, and federal law enforcement agency to investigate your entire pool of players and arrest the guilty ones.

It's not good for business(ie the leagues) to essentially encourage illegal activities to the point where they'd be losing man power(ie the players) to arrests.

Not a complicated concept.

MK-ULTRA · Jul 6, 2016

Absolutely not!

It takes away from the "real" training and conditioning that truly makes a pro athlete..... But i suppose most Packer fans would disagree.

Don't Care · Jul 6, 2016

FirstTimer said:
LOL, a lot of these PED's are illegal controlled substances. By legalizing PED's in sports you'd essentially be telling every local, state, and federal law enforcement agency to investigate your entire pool of players and arrest the guilty ones.

It's not good for business(ie the leagues) to essentially encourage illegal activities to the point where they'd be losing man power(ie the players) to arrests.

Not a complicated concept.

Starting your counter-argument with "LOL" really emphasizes your level of intelligence.

The NFL doesn't have to encourage. They just don't have to enforce. Why is it their responsibility? Without the league testing for contraband, how will the police have probable cause to arrest football players? They would have to set up a sting operation to catch these guys buying steroids, which is basically what they have to do today. And it is safe to assume that most players are juicing and that you could catch them in a sting. The police have bigger problems to worry about.

If what you said held true and it really isn't "a complicated concept" then why haven't the police arrested outspoken drug users like Charlie Sheen and Eminem for drug-related offenses?

Bronze65 · Jul 6, 2016

Don't Care said:
Starting your counter-argument with "LOL" really emphasizes your level of intelligence.

The NFL doesn't have to encourage. They just don't have to enforce. Why is it their responsibility? Without the league testing for contraband, how will the police have probable cause to arrest football players? They would have to set up a sting operation to catch these guys buying steroids, which is basically what they have to do today. And it is safe to assume that most players are juicing and that you could catch them in a sting. The police have bigger problems to worry about.

If what you said held true and it really isn't "a complicated concept" then why haven't the police arrested outspoken drug users like Charlie Sheen and Eminem for drug-related offenses?

I wouldn't bother arguing with FirstTimer, Rory or their little jerk-off posse.

FirstTimer · Jul 6, 2016

Don't Care said:
They would have to set up a sting operation to catch these guys buying steroids, which is basically what they have to do today.

..And their odds would be a hell of a lot better in catching them if they knew that basically the entire league was on them. They literally couldn't be wrong. Right now it's more of a guessing game....if they were allowed..it wouldn't be as much of one.

Sheen and Eminem have been in constant trouble with the law, much of is as a result of drug or alcohol abuse. It's pretty naïve to think that drug use only leads to arrests for drugs....

Don't Care · Jul 6, 2016

If the world worked the way you think it does then the police should be constantly arresting Charlie Sheen for drug-related offenses until he finally stops doing drugs or at least stops bragging about it. Admitting you "bang seven gram rocks" on national television isn't enough to get the police to investigate you. But in your mind, just playing a sport that doesn't have you test for drugs is?

Do you have to take drug tests on your job? Most likely not. Does that mean it's "easy pickings" for the police to raid your home and your coworkers' homes and find contraband? Drug use is fairly prevalent for stock brokers and they aren't regularly being tested nor arrested. It's really not much different - the police know a certain group of people are suspect to abusing drugs yet they can't just pull them off the street and start harassing them.

How often do they test college football players? Or high school players? Guess those guys should get pinched as well - it's so easy!

I don't care if those guys get arrested for assault while high, the point is that no one is investigating them and setting up sting operations to bring them in for purchasing illegal drugs.

Mongo_76 · Jul 6, 2016

Don't Care said:
Starting your counter-argument with "LOL" really emphasizes your level of intelligence.

Interesting...

Don't Care said:
LOL

If that were true why haven't the cops busted Clay Mathews?

A: They haven't found probable cause and no one is investigating since the police are always understaffed.

LOL

Don't Care · Jul 6, 2016

I was mocking him.

The Hawk · Jul 7, 2016

Don't Care said:
If the world worked the way you think it does then the police should be constantly arresting Charlie Sheen for drug-related offenses until he finally stops doing drugs or at least stops bragging about it. Admitting you "bang seven gram rocks" on national television isn't enough to get the police to investigate you. But in your mind, just playing a sport that doesn't have you test for drugs is?

Do you have to take drug tests on your job? Most likely not. Does that mean it's "easy pickings" for the police to raid your home and your coworkers' homes and find contraband? Drug use is fairly prevalent for stock brokers and they aren't regularly being tested nor arrested. It's really not much different - the police know a certain group of people are suspect to abusing drugs yet they can't just pull them off the street and start harassing them.

How often do they test college football players? Or high school players? Guess those guys should get pinched as well - it's so easy!

I don't care if those guys get arrested for assault while high, the point is that no one is investigating them and setting up sting operations to bring them in for purchasing illegal drugs.

As a former high school baseball coach, I am an advocate for drug testing high school athletes for PEDs. And I believe that college athletes should be tested also. To me, it is simple. Taking this shit is cheating anyway that you look at it. My teams played against players that I know were using and on my travel teams it was much worse. This shit is poison and has no fucking place in sports.

FirstTimer · Jul 7, 2016

Don't Care said:
Do you have to take drug tests on your job? Most likely not.

Yes, my company randomly drug tests.

Don't Care said:
yet they can't just pull them off the street and start harassing them.

No where did I say this would happen.

Don't Care said:
How often do they test college football players? Or high school players?

Depends on the school.

Don't Care said:
I don't care if those guys get arrested for assault while high

Of course you don't be cause it obliterates your shitty point.

Don't Care said:
the point is that no one is investigating them and setting up sting operations to bring them in for purchasing illegal drugs.

So you're supposing that the pro leagues would legalizes controlled substances like PED's.....which the feds have already set up massive sting operations on...and they've worked...and the feds would know MORE of this stuff would happen and they wouldn't set up more investigations?

It's like you don't actually follow the news.

The Hawk · Jul 7, 2016

Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post

As a former high school baseball coach, I am an advocate for drug testing high school athletes for PEDs.

Rory Sparrow said:
Yes, lets make high school sports have even more cost associated with it. Lets test the band members for hallucinogens. Lets not drug test the coaches, teachers or administrators who are in charge of the kids, lets drug test the kids!

Be serious. THere is a real danger with young people taking this crap. Roid rage is real let alone the potential dangers to the athletes body when they take it on their own. I also believe that many high schools do test for this stuff. If a kid refuses the test, he won't be on the team. Besides, taking the stuff conceivably gives the player an edge over another kid who is not using the stuff and that in itself is wrong.

The Hawk · Jul 7, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
11,364 posts...and you still haven't learned to multi-quote. We should have CCS posters submit to random drug testing. Sheesh.

Why the insults? I disagree with you and you come up with this lame shit. Why? I consider you to be a smart man with good arguments for the most part. Why cheapen yourself with crap like this?

Another point......Why did you omit what you said that I responded to? Could you not follow the actual conversation on this subject?

CallMeYams · Jul 7, 2016

Wait PEDs aren't legal? Oops.

The Hawk · Jul 7, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
It would be funny if high schools started dropping certain sports programs because they could not afford the overhead of drug testing. You would be not allowing the good kids to play sports because some bad kid may have had a roid rage incident. That would be like disallowing the good kids from taking college entrance exams because Derrick Rose cheated on his exam.

If someone is THAT into high school sports that they are taking steroids, then I don't know if random testing is really going to STOP them from taking them. Just the fact that they test positive would be proof that they ARE taking them, and wouldn't change the dangers to the athlete's body. If the whole goal was to prevent misuse, then the solution would be to allow team trainers to administer the PEDs. Your angle on this is one of "competitive advantage/disadvantage", which is really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. I don't really care if your high school JV team lost a game 9-7 because an opposing player used steroids to hit a 3-run HR in the bottom of the 7th.

Neither of us know the cost of drug testing so it is just speculation that it is prohibitive. I come at this as a guy who has had personal experience coaching young baseball players as well as a father whose kids all played high school sports. As both a father and a coach, I fear for the kids who take this shit from a health standpoint. As far as the competitive advantage issue, I do think that when a kid gets a scholarship or makes a team because of the edge that PEDs gives him, it is unfair to another player who would have gotten that spot or scholarship instead.

As a practical point, the fear of getting caught using the PEDs would keep most players honest Being bounced from a high school team would be hard for most of these players to take.

BearFanJohn · Jul 7, 2016

Do what degree do you measure the "War on Drugs" worked? By that I mean, on what data are you basing this position? I agree with most of the above except I'm not sure the "War on Drugs" has been all that successful if you weight the cost of the decades long program versus the over-all effectiveness. It certainly hasn't worked in the inner-cities. Rural use of heroin is at epidemic levels in many areas. Crack continues to destroy too lives. Sure, we filled the jails with users, many of them only on pot, but I'm not sure that the "war" really worked to any measurable degree. More specifically, for what it cost and who has been incarcerated.

Ares · Jul 7, 2016

The Hawk said:
As a former high school baseball coach, I am an advocate for drug testing high school athletes for PEDs. And I believe that college athletes should be tested also. To me, it is simple. Taking this shit is cheating anyway that you look at it. My teams played against players that I know were using and on my travel teams it was much worse. This shit is poison and has no fucking place in sports.

Did you have any Injuns on ur team? And if so, did any of them use PEDs?

didshereallysaythat · Jul 7, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
Again, if the whole goal was to prevent misuse, then the solution would be to allow team trainers to administer the PEDs, right? Do you agree with that statement?

I would think the goal of HS testing would be to reduce the number of kids taking steroids more so than preventing misuse. Steroids could be administered by a doctor in the safest way possible and it would still pose long term risks. Kids shouldn't take them NO MATTER WHO is administering them.

didshereallysaythat · Jul 7, 2016

Rory Sparrow said:
Hard to hit such a moving target. If your whole goal is to reduce the number of kids taking steroids, then just get rid of sports completely, no? I am loving the complete dichotomy of each aspect of this discussion...health, parenting, JV baseball, etc. The only thing I've actually learned in this thread is that "stock broker" is still a recognized profession.

I don't think that anyone wants to "get rid of sports completely." Obviously, adding testing is going to increase the funds needed to keep programs afloat. Just like people have talked about adding additional heart screenings such as echos or atleast EKGs to HS athletes where a defect could go undetected in a routine physical. Increasing the safety of juvenile athletes is something that needs to be looked at and evaluated. There has to be a common ground. We can't just throw our hands up in the air and say "welp it costs too much to change!"

BearFanJohn · Jul 7, 2016

You want to test HS kids for PEDs? I'm not sure I have an issue with that. So, as long as your testing them for PEDs do you test for week or other drugs, too? And if your testing the athletes for other drugs do you also test the band? Cheerleaders? Coaches and teachers likely have union agreements that prohibit that so would they be out too? I don't have an answer to any of these but it is a very complicated issue.

If the major sports teams want to stop PEDs I think they have to go back to the "drawing board" and start over. But the respective player's unions will object to some or even great degree. Its a huge issue but finding an effective and equitable way of preventing PEDs in HS would be a fine start.

Would you be a fan of legalizing PEDs?

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