OT: Michael Jordan's Prime

FirstTimer · Jul 8, 2016

What seasons would you all consider to be Jordan's prime?

I would have originally said around 88 or 89 to 1993 because of his added playoff performances.

Some posters have said 87-90.

What say you CCS?

FirstTimer · Jul 8, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
Let's just say it was 87 to 98. When you are so fucking good during all of that, just expand it that far.

Because the statistical markers don't really support this.

Scoot26 · Jul 8, 2016

87-88 season to 92-93... Had he not retired he'd probably top out around 95. He was still very good until he retired obviously, but 96-98 Jordan just wasn't the same.

FirstTimer · Jul 8, 2016

Scoot26 said:
87-88 season to 92-93... Had he not retired he'd probably top out around 95. He was still very good until he retired obviously, but 96-98 Jordan just wasn't the same.

I always remember Jordan saying he hated the rims and shooting sight lines in the UC when he came back.

Didn't realize it until I looked into the numbers but Jordan never lead the NBA in PER during his comeback.

didshereallysaythat · Jul 8, 2016

In 95-96, Jordan had a PER of 29.4 which was higher than his 91-92 total and only 0.3 lower than 92-93.

There is no denying that he lost some of his physical ability and athleticism after the first retirement. But he made it up by being a smarter player during the 2nd 3 peat. And he still delivered in the clutch. I don't think I ever heard anyone say that he was not as good as an overall player during the 2nd 3 peat.

Raskolnikov · Jul 8, 2016

After I watched "When the Magic is Gone", the ESPN 30:30 special I decided I really wanted to go back and watch the 95-96 playoffs.

The special was on the Magic, but as a Bulls fan I was more intrigued with the look in Michaels eye and going back and reviewing all that context as an adult. I can tell you Shaq had Jordan's attention, and his focused vengeance as the level he had to achieve to be the best.

I think that series was the last time Jordan had to ask himself if his best was going to be enough. That he really didn't know deep down how hard he would have to dig, or what it would take, or what he would have to do to stop this monster kid.

And he slayed them. He blew up the franchise. Shaq knew they had no chance. It shouldn't be a huge suprise that it would take a player of Shaq's legend to bring out the best we ever saw in Michael Jordan. I need to find that series on youtube, but the palm move he puts on them in the lane is the craziest shit I ever seen. He straight clowns a hall of famer and an all-star. Clowns.

Raskolnikov · Jul 8, 2016

The Magic had given Jordan a taste of losing at basketball for the first time in 5 years. They motivated his comeback to achieve a level that would propel 3 more championships.

In this game 1, the context is that not only is they defeated Jordan in the 95 playoffs after his shortened comeback season in which he was clearly rusty, but they also beat the Bulls during the regular season. Young Shaq was a handful, and Phil was about to invent hack a Shaq.

But I think the Jordan we see here is as psyched as he can get, full focus. Prime focus. Championship killer.

[video=youtube;7-XUqJUkHdk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-XUqJUkHdk[/video]

And you can see he defeats a 60 win team by 27.

PolarBear · Jul 8, 2016

I would include the 95-96 season. He was on a mission that year.

Can a player have a 10 year prime? 8 taking out the the two years he missed?

I guess is anybody can it's Mike.

Crystallas · Jul 8, 2016

87-90 It was just like holy shit WTF all the time. Sorry kids, box scores and youtube simply can't explain. Similar to how even younger people might say 2008 was KGs prime.

Raskolnikov · Jul 8, 2016

Crystallas said:
87-90 It was just like holy shit WTF all the time. Sorry kids, box scores and youtube simply can't explain. Similar to how even younger people might say 2008 was KGs prime.

The argument against is he hadn't learned ways to increase winning basketball yet. He was trying to do it by himself, yeah...40 ppg without being a great shooter was wtf all the time. of course.

But he was a much better shooter 96-98 as he didn't come up in youth basketball with a 3 point line. That aspect delayed his prime until his outside shot matured. 91,92, 1996 seem like the exemplary examples of his ultimate greatness. No player from any era could have stopped these versions of jordan.

Crystallas · Jul 8, 2016

Raskolnikov said:
The argument against is he hadn't learned ways to increase winning basketball yet. He was trying to do it by himself, yeah...40 ppg without being a great shooter was wtf all the time. of course.

But he was a much better shooter 96-98 as he didn't come up in youth basketball with a 3 point line. That aspect delayed his prime until his outside shot matured. 91,92, 1996 seem like the exemplary examples of his ultimate greatness. No player from any era could have stopped these versions of jordan.

Against?

I think people want to confuse a player's absolute prime and the prime of their situation. Put 85 Jordan on the 96 Bulls, who knows what happens, maybe they still win it all.

didshereallysaythat · Jul 8, 2016

Crystallas said:
Against?

I think people want to confuse a player's absolute prime and the prime of their situation. Put 85 Jordan on the 96 Bulls, who knows what happens, maybe they still win it all.

All we can do is go by what actually happened. The 95-96 Bulls went 87-13 including the playoffs which is the best overall record in NBA History.

ijustposthere · Jul 8, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
All we can do is go by what actually happened. The 95-96 Bulls went 87-13 including the playoffs which is the best overall record in NBA History.

The Bulls prime is not necessarily MJs prime. Honestly, it's a tough question to answer because the guy was so damn good. I'm debating 88/89-92/93 but he was really fucking good on that 95/96 team. What makes this difficult was his retirement, obviously.

Raskolnikov · Jul 8, 2016

No, because Jordan evolved his game and added skills each off season with dedication and persistence he became even better as he aged.

He was in control, pacing himself, toying with angles and using his teammates.

Early Jordan was much more wow, but later Jordan was the greatest basketball player that ever lived in every way, including winning.

Benchmob757 · Jul 8, 2016

I'd say he was in his prime when he played on the Tune Squad. Peak of his career basically. Greatest underdog story of all time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RamiTheBullsFan · Jul 9, 2016

1991-92 Jordan would be the year I would want Jordan more so than any other single season.

Ever so slightly past his fastest days as a player but after developing one of the most feared post-up games in the NBA.

This was the year after he won his first championship. So he already knew what it took to win a title and had an extraordinary desire to stay on top.

RamiTheBullsFan · Jul 9, 2016

ijustposthere said:
The Bulls prime is not necessarily MJs prime. Honestly, it's a tough question to answer because the guy was so damn good. I'm debating 88/89-92/93 but he was really fucking good on that 95/96 team. What makes this difficult was his retirement, obviously.

Prime speed/leaping/explosiveness/all-around athleticism: 1985

Prime mentally: 2003

Prime strength/post-up ability: 1996-1997

Best combination of all of the above, IMO: 1991-92 season

FirstTimer · Jul 11, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
There is no denying that he lost some of his physical ability and athleticism after the first retirement..

So he wasn't in his prime.

Got it.

remydat said:
No point.

This nicely sums up all your posts.

Jordan didn't lead the league in PER one he came back from retirement. His FG% dropped. Look at the black ink in his advanced numbers from the 2nd three peat. His numbers from his early career were better. It's pretty simple.

It's pretty clear and cut and dried when Jordan's prime was. I think it's funny you say Jordan was "saving himself" during the 2nd run yet he was playing just as many, if not more, minutes than he was previously.

Again, reality bites you in the ass.

Maybe you should move on to the baseball forum or something. You're really bad at football and basketball.

didshereallysaythat · Jul 11, 2016

FirstTimer said:
So he wasn't in his prime.

Got it.

There is no concrete black and white definition as to what constitutes a players prime. Different people are going to see it differently based on a lot of factors.

You are so wrapped up on trying to prove to people that you are right (when in reality all you have is an opinion) that it makes you appear like an ass. Stop it.

FirstTimer · Jul 11, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
You are so wrapped up on trying to prove to people that you are right.

I am right. Look at Jordan's regular season and post season numbers from that time period. The is a clear marker of when he was better. It was pre-retirement.

His first three Finals:
36ppg, 6.6rpg, 8.1apg 53% shooting

His last three Finals:
31ppg, 5.4rpg, 4.2apg, 43% shooting

OT: Michael Jordan's Prime

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