Grade The Offseason

i thought i'd give us something to discuss other than Charles Barkley's comments about Durant

Notable Moves:
-Drafted Denzel Valentine, Paul Zipser
-Traded Rose for Robin, Calderon, Grant
-Let Gasol, Noah & Moore walk
-Signed Rajon Rondo for 2/28m
-Traded Dunleavy to Cavaliers
-Signed Dwyane Wade for 2/47m
-Got new Training Staff

Here's the cheat sheet if anyone is interested. It has been kept up to date.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/79777-2016-17-Bulls-Movement-Tracker

Getting rid of Rose: C+
'Drafting Valentine: B-
Signing Rondo and Wade: F- - -.

Total F

If this team has a deep run, and not due to Wade or Rondo as the main driver. Then I'll say that is the only way I consider this offseason a success.

If they shock us, go to the ECF, but that's because Wade happens to be healthy for the playoffs and carries the load, then I actually see that as a failure, because wtf do you do in 2017-18? You wind up in a situation where too many old dogs are pulling the sled.

Those are the best case scenarios. I still expect a record similar to last year.

Crystallas said:

If this team has a deep run, and not due to Wade or Rondo as the main driver. Then I'll say that is the only way I consider this offseason a success.

If they shock us, go to the ECF, but that's because Wade happens to be healthy for the playoffs and carries the load, then I actually see that as a failure, because wtf do you do in 2017-18? You wind up in a situation where too many old dogs are pulling the sled.

Those are the best case scenarios. I still expect a record similar to last year.

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I think Bulls will actually be worse.
1. No consistent 3 point threat
2. Wade and Rondo do not make FTs. Will bring team FT percentage down.
3. Team defense will suck.
4. Wade, Butler and Rondo are inconsistent long range shooters. Team FG% will be low.
5. Where is low post threat?
6. Portis is still an unknown.
7. Mrotic regressed last year. Do not know what he brings to table
8. Taj is a year older and is missing games.

Bulls will be good enough for either 1st round out in playoffs or low lottery draft pick. In other words basketball hell.
I fucking sick of GarPax.

considering the fact Jerry is against doing a full rebuild im giving the offseason an A. i think allot of people are being a bit short-sighted and only focusing on this upcoming year, when it was always gonna be a transitional year.

-finally got rid of the old core and didn't overpay to keep anybody
-acquired Robin Lopez, who is a very solid center on a great contract
-didn't paint us a corner with salary, kept us flexible and have us set up in great position for next season
-finally brought in a new training staff and its somebody thats got a good resume
-got the 2nd biggest FA after KD

this year is all about throwing shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks. next year we're setting pretty having Wade/Butler in the best FA class since 2010

Axl Rose said:

considering the fact Jerry is against doing a full rebuild im giving the offseason an A. i think allot of people are being a bit short-sighted and only focusing on this upcoming year, when it was always gonna be transitional year.

-finally got rid of the old core and didn't overpay to keep anybody
-acquired Robin Lopez, who is a very solid center on a great contract
-didn't paint us a corner with salary, kept us flexible and have us set up in great position for next season
-finally brought in a new training staff and its somebody thats got a good resume
-got the 2nd biggest FA after KD

this year is all about throwing shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks. next year we're setting pretty having Wade/Butler in the best FA class since 2010

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Can't believe I am saying this and I sort of agree. I guess they don't want to end up like post jordan krause era and the 6ers.

I will give it a B.

Hated the Rose trade at first. After seeing what kind of contracts other players got, Lopez looks like a steal. Jerian Grant has some potential.

I still don't like the Rondo signing as a fit for this team but at least it's a flexible contract.

The biggest positive in the Wade deal is the fact that signing a guy like Wade gives the Bulls an opportunity to completely re-shape their image within the league if they keep Dwyane Wade happy. Wade has a lot of influence and is well respected in this league.

I think getting rid of the "old guard" was the best move GarPax made this off-season. The rift between the new guys lead by Butler and the old guys in the locker room may have been one of the biggest reasons as to why the Bulls weren't playing playoff basketball. This is Jimmy's team now. I want to see if he can develop into that superstar, top 10 player that the Bulls need.

PolarBear said:

I will give it a B.

The biggest positive in the Wade deal is the fact that signing a guy like Wade gives the Bulls an opportunity to completely re-shape their image within the league if they keep Dwyane Wade happy. Wade has a lot of influence and is well respected in this league.

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I think this is the biggest positive. Wade is the same douchebag that tried to sabotage the bulls in 2010 by saying they were not loyal. I have no doubt that he was the one who was filling lebrons ear about not going to the bulls. I think that hurt us more in 2010 than rose not recruiting. Now that he is a bull it has the potential to change the perception that the bulls are not loyal (even though that was never the case). I think that can be huge in the 2017 free agent sweepstakes.

I'll give it a C. Wasn't the biggest fan of the Rose trade, not because we traded Rose, but because of the return. Lopez's contract will be fine going forward relative to the ridiculous contracts given this summer, but his impact as a player will be meh. Grant I am not sure. I guess we were able to turn Calderon into cap space for Wade so that's not too bad. Wade signing in a vaccuum I like, but him next to Rondo makes little sense.

Rondo I think is a move GarPax made just to say they got a big name player. He doesn't really fit the Hoiberg offensive philosophy (though neither does Wade) and imo will contribute nothing to the team other than make them just good enough to start sniffing the playoffs.

There's a chance that the fact that Rondo, Wade, and Butler can't shoot 3s will actually work out in our favor by causing us to lose a lot of games and get a better pick. That and the fact that these contracts only last 2 years make it not as horrible as it could be.

Valentine I thought was a solid draft pick and I think he's a guy that can be a solid role player down the line. Idk if Zipser will be anything, but as far as 2nd round picks go it seems like he'll actually have a shot at contributing which is all you can ask for.

baselman1974 said:

I think Bulls will actually be worse.
1. No consistent 3 point threat
2. Wade and Rondo do not make FTs. Will bring team FT percentage down.
3. Team defense will suck.
4. Wade, Butler and Rondo are inconsistent long range shooters. Team FG% will be low.
5. Where is low post threat?
6. Portis is still an unknown.
7. Mrotic regressed last year. Do not know what he brings to table
8. Taj is a year older and is missing games.

Bulls will be good enough for either 1st round out in playoffs or low lottery draft pick. In other words basketball hell.
I fucking sick of GarPax.

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They might not be as good as basketball, but I think they will win more games, have better chemistry. And though I reacted differently at first thank god we have moved on from Rose, and the fans and franchise can move on psychologically.

I think the team positioned itself to lure free agents. Hell...does Wade come here to play with Rose? Or did he come when he realized he could get free buckets from Rondo, and shoot shoot shoot.

Rondo is the play of the off-season (for everyone not in the running for Durant) if it ends up landing us Cousins.

The Bulls in the same breathe positioned themselves to be competitive now, while opening cap in the near future.
I think Paxon would say the same thing, that even he is surprised how well this transition went.

We need to increase Mirotic's value this season, and potentially receive a windfall in a sign and trade at deadline if he isn't committed long term or part of long term plans.
Rondo may actually help with that, I could see Rondo taking a 15 ppg player and making them a 20 ppg player for half a season.

Butler/Wade are not going to settle for losing. They will get on guys, and set the example. Removing Rose is the deepest breathe of alpine air I can remember in the NBA in this type of situation.

Its good for the league too, because they can sell his false hope to the Knicks who need it desperately. I wouldn't be surprised if Rose is out of the league in 3 years. Another injury, discovering his market value, total failure in N.Y...I could see several things finally breaking him.

Grant/Canaan/Dinwiddie actually all have potential...far more than a guy like Bairstow.

Snell/Mirotic/McBuckets are capable of taking steps.

Gibson/Lopez/Portis/Felicio/Mirotic looks thin...but I'm really not sure. Mirotic/Portis ...how good are they? With a real point guard? Seriously...what are they? I have no idea right now...I have seen their potential at times...they can stretch the floor with the best stretch 4/5's in the league.

Its not beyond comprehension that having space this all-star back court of Rondo-Wade-Butler can actually do some damage.

Rondo has absolutely matured if you follow his interviews, I saw him on "The Jump" this summer. The potential for toxicity is there...I could see him and Wade being one of those marriages that is tight but has blowups.

I think Wade/Butler will love each other. Rondo's first damn job is to get Cousins to come in year two. If we have to lose Mirotic and Portis to make a trade for that so be it.

Cousins/Butler/Valentine/(Portis or Mirotic) could be the start of something special though...and I think McBuckets will be a useful asset to Hoiberg off the bench for years to come.


Still....its pretty obvious just from summer league that passing on Buddy Hield as the future of your franchise was a bad move for everyone who had the chance...and I think that includes Philedelphia. I didn't expect that type of range to come that easily to him, the guy might be the only one in the near future who can get to the Thompson/Durant/Curry/Lillard/Lou Williams/Korver/McBuckets level of elite shooting.

Right now I'll give it a B. It really depends on next year because the moves were made to add a max guy or two next year. They will be an interesting team this year and I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

don't know how many times i gotta say Hoiberg wanted Rondo...so he must fit because why would he want somebody that doesn't fit his system?

him and Wade don't mesh but who woulda thought Wade would leave Miami? obviously you don't tell Wade no thanks because hes doesn't fit...they made the right move signing him anyway

Axl Rose said:

don't know how many times i gotta say Hoiberg wanted Rondo

so he must fit because why would he want somebody that doesn't fit his system?

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Hoiberg doesn't know what he wants

Short term, D, I see the long term possibly B or A when looking back at it in some years but for right now...D

A common misconception though is that Fred Hoiberg’s preferred offense is a pace-and-space attack predicated on shooting the three. In his first season as Bulls head coach, in what was deemed by many a colossal failure, Hoiberg’s team was 24th in the NBA in 3PAr. Granted, there were times that players admittedly weren’t running the offense, instead settling back to Tom Thibodeau’s style, or the continuation of the “iso-ball” tug of war between Butler and Rose.

But this reliance on the three-point shot seems to be overblown even when looking back to Hoiberg’s Iowa State days. Below is each year Hoiberg was at Iowa State, the corresponding winning percentage for his team and their national rank in four shooting categories: eFG%, 3PT%, 2PT%, and 3PAr.

The most successful Iowa State teams excelled not from long range, but from within the arc where they used high screens and quick offense to get open midrange looks. In 2014 and 2015, when the Cyclones won at least 74% of their games, their best finish in 3PT% was 84th while their best finish in 3PAr was 65th. During that same period, they finished ninth and 11th respectively in 2PT FG%.

Seems like a lot of moves just so the team could pretty much end up where it was last year ie a run of the mill eastern conference NBA team. So I'd give them a C- for trying even if it doesn't appear that it will mean much next year.

Axl Rose said:

A common misconception though is that Fred Hoiberg’s preferred offense is a pace-and-space attack predicated on shooting the three. In his first season as Bulls head coach, in what was deemed by many a colossal failure, Hoiberg’s team was 24th in the NBA in 3PAr. Granted, there were times that players admittedly weren’t running the offense, instead settling back to Tom Thibodeau’s style, or the continuation of the “iso-ball” tug of war between Butler and Rose.

But this reliance on the three-point shot seems to be overblown even when looking back to Hoiberg’s Iowa State days. Below is each year Hoiberg was at Iowa State, the corresponding winning percentage for his team and their national rank in four shooting categories: eFG%, 3PT%, 2PT%, and 3PAr.

The most successful Iowa State teams excelled not from long range, but from within the arc where they used high screens and quick offense to get open midrange looks. In 2014 and 2015, when the Cyclones won at least 74% of their games, their best finish in 3PT% was 84th while their best finish in 3PAr was 65th. During that same period, they finished ninth and 11th respectively in 2PT FG%.

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Yeah, I don't think many people really know what "Hoiball" is. It's more or less just a catchy term that garnered some excitement and justification after firing Thibs. He has a free lance offense which is predicated on high IQ players, especially the PG. Rose was far from a high IQ player and the more thinking he had to do, the less effective he was. He was always a more instinctual and reactive player. Fred, above all else, wants to push the pace, get out and run, and get easy baskets.

I think the lack of 3 pt shooting is a little over blown as well. Jimmy should shoot the ball better from distance this year. We also have Doug, Denzel, and Canaan who could all stroke it. Fred will have a number of different options to use when he really needs to create some spacing. But Rondo, Wade, and Jimmy are all high IQ players who know how to play the game and get themselves or others good shots. Wade and Jimmy are also great at getting to the line which will be nice having two guys who can do that.

I give the off-season a solid B, maybe B+. They got better, I think they fixed some locker room problems, and above all else, they're still extremely flexible going forward. Not really sure how anyone can complain about that. If people don't like the Rondo/Wade signings, they're basically 1 year deals for all intents and purposes. This was one of the better off-seasons the Bulls have had in a long time, IMO. Nobody was expecting anything from them this season and they positioned themselves to be a competitive playoff team while remaining flexible going forward. They have some decent young players in Doug, Portis, Grant, Canaan,Valentine, Felicio to go along with some vets. If the Bulls could get that Kings pick this year, the Bulls are really in great shape going forward.

I give it a D just because the moves put us in basketball hell

Axl Rose said:

don't know how many times i gotta say Hoiberg wanted Rondo...so he must fit because why would he want somebody that doesn't fit his system?

him and Wade don't mesh but who woulda thought Wade would leave Miami? obviously you don't tell Wade no thanks because hes doesn't fit...they made the right move signing him anyway

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thats a GarPax smokescreen. Given the numbers on Rondo's contract its clear we were the only suitor, there was absolutely no competitive bidding war there.

Its a sweetheart deal for the Bulls, and sure they might point at Hoiberg to distract from the true motivation which is DeMarcus Cousins.


Wade was lucky, but offers a chance at Lebron actually in the future.
We sign Wade anyway, thats just box office, basketball, good leadership, and an assortment of recruitment possibilities given his clout, personality, and track record of making elite friends.

The reason I say Lebron is now in play...maybe Bosh if he gets medically figured out (there are advancements all the time), is that the Kyrie/Lebron/Love relationship could absolutely disintegrate.

Lebron is happy today...but that roster could get stuck in the near future, and if he becomes malcontent ... sure he might sign a 6 year deal, but I bet you there is a player out after year 1 or 2. He loves Wade...Wade could sell him on winning one in his hometown.

Rondo-Wade-Butler-Lebron-Cousins would smear people.


Rose looked completeyly disengaged when Butler had the ball last year. He didn't even move. He would go to the high corner and twiddle his dick. He is too in the clouds to even concern himself with learning an offense, or running it. Or playing defense sometimes. He just herds people left or right at half speed, wouldn't want to cut hard you know.

but he has dog in him so...you know...championship.

Wondering which dog is going to play defense in New York, lol...with Rose effeciency, and lack of team speed on defense...thats going to be a complete shit show and give up 110 points a game. Porzingis can't move laterally, Melo is old, Rose is thinking about PJ...think about it.

Aussie fan come back. I cried when we got Rose. I watched every game he played at Memphis. Few have defended that guy and
stuck through for him and hoped and sold his traits as I have...but consider the injury risk of that team as well.

Guys like Porzingis get leg and back problems pretty easy. Rose? Just no man. Phil Jackson blew them up for their own good, sold some hope to Melo and Rose and is going to escape in the firestorm of shit with no bench that team is going to be.

But New York needed that...because Rose will go off the books, Melo will demand a trade, and New York will still be the big Apple, and have the immediate cap they need build around a big old beautiful Unicorn.

Jackson will bolt to the young rebuilding Lakers, overseeing his protege Luke Walton. And he hooked up the Bulls in the process.

I'm telling you. Garpax are fucking morons, but Phil Jackson was over there playing 5th dimenionsal chess for all his allegiances.