NES Classic

Crystallas

Crystallas

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NES Classic Edition coming out in November

http://www.geekwire.com/2016/nintendos-60-nes-classic-edition-mini-console-comes-30-games-hdmi-port/


$60 system + 1 controller +30 games
$10 extra controller

Like Atari Flashbacks. So meh, but cool if you want to have one around the house. Still waiting to hear if it uses native execution, or if it's just an emulator. If it's just some cheap ARM cpu emulating, then I'll pass. I can just use the shitty virtual console for the smallest input lag, which is still significant for some of the tougher games.

Personally, if the controllers are the same quality of the original, I can't wait. I'm going to buy like 20 just for the hardware hacking purposes. The Shit USB ones you can buy now aren't very good, and the clones with the original 9-pin are also crap. No substitute for an original.
 

Mitchapalooza

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Saw this on Facebook. Looked kinda cool. I still have 2 NESs in storage somewhere at my dad's house
 
ijustposthere

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Don't need it. My original is almost 30 years old and everything still works. All I did was get rid of the stupid cable connector for the rca jacks to hdmi.
 

brett05

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Oh even if it is bad ROM, I just want to play tecmo bowl again and again.
 
ijustposthere

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brett05 said:
Oh even if it is bad ROM, I just want to play tecmo bowl again and again.
Click to expand...

I rarely play it, but when I do, it's Punch Out, Mario Bros 3, or Contra. Pretty disappointing that Contra and Battletoads aren't on there. Not to mention the original Punch Out with Mike Tyson. Though they still have Super Contra and Punch Out.
 

brett05

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ijustposthere said:
I rarely play it, but when I do, it's Punch Out, Mario Bros 3, or Contra. Pretty disappointing that Contra and Battletoads aren't on there. Not to mention the original Punch Out with Mike Tyson. Though they still have Super Contra and Punch Out.
Click to expand...

I thought they did have it but changed the name to Mr Dream because of licensing.

I wish they had Track and Field. I'm down for some Castlevania tho
 
Crystallas

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I still have a bunch of old NES toasters/toploaders/Famicoms/FDS units.

But what makes this appealing to me, depends on the hardware used. If Nintendo does it right, We should have a pool of "official" parts that will serve for epic hardware hacking for another 30 years. I actually wonder if they'll do a Famicom version as well. I'd happily import one.
 
Wintermute

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brett05 said:
I thought they did have it but changed the name to Mr Dream because of licensing.

I wish they had Track and Field. I'm down for some Castlevania tho
Click to expand...

Would have liked to see Dracula's Curse on here, but meh.
 

AussieBear

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Wintermute said:
Would have liked to see Dracula's Curse on here, but meh.
Click to expand...

i think i read youll be able to add (buy/download) more games???

its 99 bucks for a mini nes here..whenever they come out.. i think id rather just buy a mame machine for a few hundred more and 1000s of more games... i guess there is the convenience of the minis size.

it will be cool to see what peeps can do with them like crys mentioned
 
Shawon0Meter

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As much as I get nostalgic about the old NES/SNES games, I get bored pretty quickly when I actually start playing them. Kinda hate myself for it tbh.
 
Wintermute

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Shawon0Meter said:
As much as I get nostalgic about the old NES/SNES games, I get bored pretty quickly when I actually start playing them. Kinda hate myself for it tbh.
Click to expand...

I still break out Super Metroid and Castlevania IV on my notebook once in awhile.

Funny story, when Legend of Zelda first came out, I wish and wished it was on PC so I didn't have to play it at my friends house because I didn't own a NES. Now, 30 some years later I got my wish.

Ha. I win.
 
Pollmonster

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I'm still undecided on this. I have an NES and most of these games already but it is still a pretty cool item.
 
Icculus

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I'm likely buying one for my wife for the holidays.
 
Crystallas

Crystallas

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I got a bunch of these coming my way for hacking and gifts. Also some famicom minis for the same reason.

After seeing more about the hardware used, I'm disappointed. You still can't find a way to play games without input lag, unless you use the original system on a CRT. No emulator, virtual console, or modified original hardware, despite claims stating they are input lag free yet. And for a handful of games, that means they are unplayable in certain points, which for some means they are unbeatable. Obviously, they selected and licensed games for the mini systems that have the least trouble(although I would say good luck doing the SMB3 game skip(not just the pipe glitch) in 7-1, but that is just my speculation based on what exists). There are a lot more frame perfect moves in NES games than people think.
 

AussieBear

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Crystallas said:
I got a bunch of these coming my way for hacking and gifts. Also some famicom minis for the same reason.

After seeing more about the hardware used, I'm disappointed. You still can't find a way to play games without input lag, unless you use the original system on a CRT. No emulator, virtual console, or modified original hardware, despite claims stating they are input lag free yet. And for a handful of games, that means they are unplayable in certain points, which for some means they are unbeatable. Obviously, they selected and licensed games for the mini systems that have the least trouble(although I would say good luck doing the SMB3 game skip(not just the pipe glitch) in 7-1, but that is just my speculation based on what exists). There are a lot more frame perfect moves in NES games than people think.
Click to expand...


i never noticed any input lag on emulators i used back in the day... its been a good ten years since i played games on any though.. so i could be mistaken..
 
Crystallas

Crystallas

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AussieBear said:
i never noticed any input lag on emulators i used back in the day... its been a good ten years since i played games on any though.. so i could be mistaken..
Click to expand...

They are much more noticeable in certain games where frame perfect maneuvers play an impact in the game. Otherwise the games are just forgiving enough to where it doesn't matter to most people. Battletoads later stages, Ninja Gaiden later stages. Playing kaizo mario games are also a good example. You can run a testing rom/cart to see your input lag. It's always under 0.01ms on an NES, which if you have 60fps(0.03ms would mean you're always theoretically in frame, so = 0 lag), that's virtually nothing. On wii virtual console(you can run the rom through letterbomb/homebrew, it's 0.04-0.11ms. Then add display lag for modern televisions and monitors, you get around 2ms with the best configuration possible. Sorry, the Analog NT, that uses famicom hardware with HDMI out on a modern TV still has more display lag than an original NES on a CRT. (as does a modded NES/SNES with HDMI mod). That's why SVGA mods are the best way to go. Analog to analog(VGA is an analog signal, also why it exists on many modern TVs).

Then we get into emulation accuracy. Colors, audio, block/sprite size and scaling, etc. http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/NESAccuracyTests.html
That link is a general idea of how far off accuracy we are. In addition to PPU accuracy(for the case of the NES and SNES), we also have compatibility with every rom. So an emulator may come within ~98% emulation accuracy, it also is rare to have the compatibility. In theory, if you can emulate the hardware, then compatibility should carry over, but since this IS emulation and not native, that is not the clear case.

In short, for most people, they wont notice therefore they wont care. Like someone who can't really see more than 25fps on a TV, but others can see beyond 120fps. Or with audio and hifi, etc... However, with input lag, if you play certain games, you should notice it under certain circumstances, because it is objectively there and can be timed. I'll go back to the Ninja Gaiden example(because of its high familiarity) You can't wall climb on any emulator or virtual console as quick as on a native configuration. Now, you can still beat the game and all, but you're recalibrating your timing to adjust for those shortcoming to beat the game. Same with something like Punch Out, where you go from skill to luck in a Tyson/Dream fight.

And of course, the final factor. How often do you know people who play emulated games on the honor system? Meaning no save states. Once a person gets into those super hard games, they will just say fuck it and use the save state system, therefore don't ever realize the reason they are mis-timing some action is due to how easy they can just reload right before that super difficult part.
 

AussieBear

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Crystallas said:
They are much more noticeable in certain games where frame perfect maneuvers play an impact in the game. Otherwise the games are just forgiving enough to where it doesn't matter to most people. Battletoads later stages, Ninja Gaiden later stages. Playing kaizo mario games are also a good example. You can run a testing rom/cart to see your input lag. It's always under 0.01ms on an NES, which if you have 60fps(0.03ms would mean you're always theoretically in frame, so = 0 lag), that's virtually nothing. On wii virtual console(you can run the rom through letterbomb/homebrew, it's 0.04-0.11ms. Then add display lag for modern televisions and monitors, you get around 2ms with the best configuration possible. Sorry, the Analog NT, that uses famicom hardware with HDMI out on a modern TV still has more display lag than an original NES on a CRT. (as does a modded NES/SNES with HDMI mod). That's why SVGA mods are the best way to go. Analog to analog(VGA is an analog signal, also why it exists on many modern TVs).

Then we get into emulation accuracy. Colors, audio, block/sprite size and scaling, etc. http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/NESAccuracyTests.html
That link is a general idea of how far off accuracy we are. In addition to PPU accuracy(for the case of the NES and SNES), we also have compatibility with every rom. So an emulator may come within ~98% emulation accuracy, it also is rare to have the compatibility. In theory, if you can emulate the hardware, then compatibility should carry over, but since this IS emulation and not native, that is not the clear case.

In short, for most people, they wont notice therefore they wont care. Like someone who can't really see more than 25fps on a TV, but others can see beyond 120fps. Or with audio and hifi, etc... However, with input lag, if you play certain games, you should notice it under certain circumstances, because it is objectively there and can be timed. I'll go back to the Ninja Gaiden example(because of its high familiarity) You can't wall climb on any emulator or virtual console as quick as on a native configuration. Now, you can still beat the game and all, but you're recalibrating your timing to adjust for those shortcoming to beat the game. Same with something like Punch Out, where you go from skill to luck in a Tyson/Dream fight.

And of course, the final factor. How often do you know people who play emulated games on the honor system? Meaning no save states. Once a person gets into those super hard games, they will just say fuck it and use the save state system, therefore don't ever realize the reason they are mis-timing some action is due to how easy they can just reload right before that super difficult part.
Click to expand...

i didnt have a decent set up when i played these going all the way back to 01ish i think.. crts.. i was also guilty of saving a lot, especially on ninja gaiden.. respawn killings are flashing in my mind just thinking about the game... i never really noticed though... but i always felt like it just didnt fell the same as a console.. perhaps this was the lag you speak of...
 
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