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didshereallysaythat · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
Tillman's case would be based on FFs. He has over 5 times as many as William's. The problem is that the NFL did not recognize FF as a stat; It should, they are almost as important as INTs. If FFs had been recognized Tillman may have seen more probowls. As it stand's he doesn't have the stats.

The actual play of an INT to a FF is almost as important, yes. But Ints are more of an indicator of elite play because they tell a story of how well a player does in coverage. That is a far better trait to have for a corner.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Bob Hayes lead the league in receiving TD's twice. He lead the league in Y/R twice as well. For a few seasons he may have been the best punt return man in football on top of being an elite WR. Made 2x as many Pro Bowls and 2x as many All Pro teams as Tillman. He helped the Cowboys win a Super Bowl.

He never led the league in receiving yards.....he did have the league in TDs twice.......There are a plenty of players who led the league in TDs and never made the Hall. Why are we comparing Hayes to Tillman....I think you need to re-read my posts about Tillman and stop yapping at me like a chihuahua.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
The actual play of an INT to a FF is almost as important, yes. But Ints are more of an indicator of elite play because they tell a story of how well a player does in coverage. That is a far better trait to have for a corner.

I don't disagree....for some reason people keep arguing with me like I am trying to make a case for Tillman.....please read all of my posts.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Read that again to yourself and realize how hilarious that sounds.

Tillman's case would be based on a non-major statistical category that isn't even officially recognized by the NFL according to you.

NOT FAR FETCHED CASE!

:aj:

Said this before and I'll say it again, if Tillman wasn't a Bear for 99% of his career we aren't even sitting here discussing this.

Please stop being ignorant and read all of posts.....you are being a moron for arguing with me about Tillman being in the Hall.

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
He never led the league in receiving yards.....he did have the league in TDs twice.......There are a plenty of players who led the league in TDs and never made the Hall. Why are we comparing Hayes to Tillman....I think you need to re-read my posts about Tillman and stop yapping at me like a chihuahua.

I never said he lead the league in Yards receiving. Are you illiterate?

Why are we comparing Hayes to Tillman?

YOU BROUGHT UP BOB HAYES!

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
The actual play of an INT to a FF is almost as important, yes. .

:aj:

An INT is FAR more important than a forced fumble.

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
Please stop being ignorant and read all of posts.....you are being a moron for arguing with me about Tillman being in the Hall.

You said Tillman's case isn't far fetched.

It is/would be.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
I never said he lead the league in Yards receiving. Are you illiterate?

Why are we comparing Hayes to Tillman?

YOU BROUGHT UP BOB HAYES!

I wasn't comparing him to Tillman...I was pointing out that he was one of the least accomplished players in the Hall.

didshereallysaythat · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
I don't disagree....for some reason people keep arguing with me like I am trying to make a case for Tillman.....please read all of my posts.

It would be nice for Canton to mention Tillman's fumble record. Kind of an unusual stat that new generations might raise their eyebrow to as they tour the hall.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
You said Tillman's case isn't far fetched.

It is/would be.

jesus christ man.

As I said the case would have to be made on FFs. At the time they weren't really recognized. They are becoming more because of guys like Tillman.

As I have said I don't think he gets into the Hall. Why the fuck are you arguing with me? We both agree he doesn't get into the Hall.

didshereallysaythat · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
:aj:

An INT is FAR more important than a forced fumble.

Wait, I thought it was only a forced fumble if it resulted in a turnover. If not, my bad.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
It would be nice for Canton to mention Tillman's fumble record. Kind of an unusual stat that new generations might raise their eyebrow to as they tour the hall.

FFs were being recognized more because of guys like Tillman.....it may become an officially recognized stat. But right now it is not.

44 FFs in a career is damn amazing. The person closest to Tillman as far as unofficial stat goes is Osi Umenyiora with 32.

Unofficial stats become official stats and eventually FFs will probably become one.

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

didshereallysaythat said:
Wait, I thought it was only a forced fumble if it resulted in a turnover. If not, my bad.

A forced fumble is recorded as one regardless if it ends in a turnover or not.

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
jesus christ man.

As I said the case would have to be made on FFs. At the time they weren't really recognized. They are becoming more because of guys like Tillman.

As I have said I don't think he gets into the Hall. Why the fuck are you arguing with me? We both agree he doesn't get into the Hall.

I repeat:
You said Tillman's case isn't far fetched.

It is/would be.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
I repeat:
You said Tillman's case isn't far fetched.

It is/would be.

It would not be far fetched if FFs were recognized. As I have said they are not, so he won't make the Hall......how are you not comprehending this?

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
It would not be far fetched if FFs were recognized.

Yes it still would be.

Forced fumbles is a neat niche stat but it's still not a turnover. Tillman was an above average CB who was good at forcing fumbles. Cool story. There's no HOF case there.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Yes it still would be.

Forced fumbles is a neat niche stat but it's still not a turnover. Tillman was an above average CB who was good at forcing fumbles. Cool story. There's no HOF case there.

Yes I know...I said he isn't making the Hall. Glad you agree with me....

FFs are more than a niche stat. Time in the pocket is an example of a niche stat. FFs will become an official stat. It will go the same route as sacks which were once an unofficial stat. It is really up to Elias Sports Bureau who is the official stat keeper. Elias doesn't count FFs as official but they are tracking them now. If they can reliably get these numbers then it will probably become an official stat.

FirstTimer · Jul 19, 2016

modo said:
FFs are more than a niche stat. .

Not really.

And as I said, they don't even constitute a turnover. Unimpressed. It's little more than a trivial number right now really.

modo · Jul 19, 2016

FirstTimer said:
Not really.

And as I said, they don't even constitute a turnover. Unimpressed. It's little more than a trivial number right now really.

You might not be impressed, but it is becoming more relevant with the media and stat tracking. As I mentioned, Elias really holds the key and people who vote on the Hall of Fame. FFs weren't really talked about much until Tillman. He really helped put the stat on the map. It isn't enough, as it stands, to get him into the Hall however.

Raskolnikov · Jul 19, 2016

Lots of DE's have wracked up FF's, Feeney, Mathis, Osi

Tillman's only real comparison is Charles Woodson. Its so much easier to blind side a QB who has one hand on the ball in a vulnerable position and is a bad athlete, than to strip a WR or RB whose job is ball security first, second, and third.

The craziest part might be he did this for the most part while not getting to play against Greg Olsen, who was usually his teammate.

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