Is Kris Bryant Top Five in MLB?

brett05

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So it came up in another thread, is Bryant right now ignoring pitchers a top five player in baseball?
 

fatbeard

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He is Top 5 in both BRef and FG WAR. So the short answer is, "yes."

If you're asking whether he's a perennial Top 5 player going forward, the answer is "probably."
 

brett05

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He is Top 5 in both BRef and FG WAR. So the short answer is, "yes."

If you're asking whether he's a perennial Top 5 player going forward, the answer is "probably."

That's just using WAR which is subjective to it's formulation.

So basically who do you want on your team? Bryant or Trout? Bryant or Rizzo? Bryant or Machado? Bryant or Altuve? Bryant or Donaldson? Bryant or Areando? Bryant or Harper? Bryant or Betts? Bryant or Seager?

For me he's top 10. Just not sure he's top 5. I have Rizzo ahead of him.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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Here is my Top 5 in MLB:

1) Addison Russell
2) Trout
3) Harper
4) Stanton
5) Bryant
 

fatbeard

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That's just using WAR which is subjective to it's formulation.

And three different formulations of WAR/WARP (BR, FG, BP) agree that Bryant is a Top 5 player. Baseball Prospectus has him #1, Baseball Reference #5, and Fangraphs has him #3. It's safe to say we've objectively triangulated him as being in the Top 5.
 

brett05

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And three different formulations of WAR/WARP (BR, FG, BP) agree that Bryant is a Top 5 player. Baseball Prospectus has him #1, Baseball Reference #5, and Fangraphs has him #3. It's safe to say we've objectively triangulated him as being in the Top 5.

That's not objective, but I see your point.
 

TC in Mississippi

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That's just using WAR which is subjective to it's formulation.

So basically who do you want on your team? Bryant or Trout? Bryant or Rizzo? Bryant or Machado? Bryant or Altuve? Bryant or Donaldson? Bryant or Areando? Bryant or Harper? Bryant or Betts? Bryant or Seager?

For me he's top 10. Just not sure he's top 5. I have Rizzo ahead of him.

For me WAR is as objective a measure as we have. Is it perfect? It is not, but for me fWAR comes the closest in evaluating talent, but you could make the argument that Bryant's defensive flexibility is over weighted in their system. In fWAR he's 2nd in bWAR he's 5th. That's only this season though and things can change. There are guys that were clearly in the top 5 or 10 a few years ago and are not now, and that's not taking into account aging players (Andrew McCutchen comes to mind). For me though I'll go out on a limb and say Bryant will remain in that top group for awhile as I think he's actually getting better.

In the Rizzo/Bryant debate I take Bryant as well because I think he's just a hair better. Looking at their stats right now their counting stats are scarily almost equal with the key differences being that Rizzo strikes out less but also walks less while Bryant hits more HR. Moving away from counting stats I think Bryant's positional flexibility just edges out Rizzo's leadership qualities. Bottom line though I think Bryant is the MVP and clear favorite in 2016 as of today but all know things could change. Going forward they are both probably top 5 players in more years than not.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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The Bryant/Rizzo debate is tough. I'm glad we don't have to choose between the two of them. I think Bryant's numbers are slightly inflated because he seems to pile on. He's prone to massive, massive games (like his 5-for-5 outing the other day) that slightly skew his overall numbers.

For right now if we were down to our last at-bat with the game on the line -- I think I'd take Rizzo.
 

brett05

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For me WAR is as objective a measure as we have. Is it perfect? It is not, but for me fWAR comes the closest in evaluating talent, but you could make the argument that Bryant's defensive flexibility is over weighted in their system. In fWAR he's 2nd in bWAR he's 5th. That's only this season though and things can change. There are guys that were clearly in the top 5 or 10 a few years ago and are not now, and that's not taking into account aging players (Andrew McCutchen comes to mind). For me though I'll go out on a limb and say Bryant will remain in that top group for awhile as I think he's actually getting better.

In the Rizzo/Bryant debate I take Bryant as well because I think he's just a hair better. Looking at their stats right now their counting stats are scarily almost equal with the key differences being that Rizzo strikes out less but also walks less while Bryant hits more HR. Moving away from counting stats I think Bryant's positional flexibility just edges out Rizzo's leadership qualities. Bottom line though I think Bryant is the MVP and clear favorite in 2016 as of today but all know things could change. Going forward they are both probably top 5 players in more years than not.

Given that a great deal of Bryant's numbers have come against the likes of the Reds, Brewers, and Rockies, I really don't think it's even close and that Rizzo is clear and away the MVP of the team and quite possibly the League. Bryant has been up and down compared to Rizzo who has been more consistent. Again not taking anything away from Bryant. He's a top 10 guy that may someday be top 5. He's just not there today.

And I agree, He'll be there for a bit.
 

SilenceS

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Given that a great deal of Bryant's numbers have come against the likes of the Reds, Brewers, and Rockies, I really don't think it's even close and that Rizzo is clear and away the MVP of the team and quite possibly the League. Bryant has been up and down compared to Rizzo who has been more consistent. Again not taking anything away from Bryant. He's a top 10 guy that may someday be top 5. He's just not there today.

And I agree, He'll be there for a bit.

He is 6th in wrc+ that accounts for ballpark factors. Also, not as consistent? Lol Here are his splits. Looks pretty consistent to me. Sometimes you just say things to say it.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=15429&position=3B/OF&season=2016

Also, Cinci is the only team he has wrecked and has a gap with home runs. He has hit 9 against them. I didnt know you got penalized for kicking a team's ass. Rizzo didnt do that. He must not be consistent.
 

brett05

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Way to slant toward your Bias SlienceS. Not talking just to talk, let's look at the numbers.

April, May, AS break of July especially very hard on Bryant. Bad May for Rizzo. Yes Rizzo more consistent. (all in relation to being elite/top 5)

Bryant 12 hrs 855 OPS
Rizzo 14 hrs 1053 OPS

Those are the numbers on teams above .500.

yes Rizzo is clearly better.
 

Raskolnikov

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If Bryant/Rizzo/Schwarber can all be top 10, and they re-sign Arrieta...the Cubs can win alot of championships.


Baez/Russell have a chance to be a top 5 infield if considering offense and defense combined.




In the Rizzo/Bryant equation, do not forget that Rizzo defends his position better and plays a premium defensive position that has to make plays on a high percentage of outs. The highest percentage other than catcher. Given that their offense is similar, I would put Rizzo at 4 and Bryant ahead of Stanton, who hasn't finished a season healthy.
 

Parade_Rain

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
That's just using WAR which is subjective to it's formulation.

So basically who do you want on your team? Bryant or Trout? Bryant or Rizzo? Bryant or Machado? Bryant or Altuve? Bryant or Donaldson? Bryant or Areando? Bryant or Harper? Bryant or Betts? Bryant or Seager?

For me he's top 10. Just not sure he's top 5. I have Rizzo ahead of him.
I'd take Bryant. He plays more positions. If I could, I would take both.
 

SilenceS

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Way to slant toward your Bias SlienceS. Not talking just to talk, let's look at the numbers.

April, May, AS break of July especially very hard on Bryant. Bad May for Rizzo. Yes Rizzo more consistent. (all in relation to being elite/top 5)

Bryant 12 hrs 855 OPS
Rizzo 14 hrs 1053 OPS

Those are the numbers on teams above .500.

yes Rizzo is clearly better.

What does being a team over .500 have to do with anything? LOL. There is no bias. Bryant has been a .274 or higher hitter every month. He has also just killed after the all star break. lol
 

anotheridiot

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I think Bryant playing more positions is what hurts him as being called top 5. Rizzo plays first base, he is in the conversation of best first basemen in baseball. Bryant does not get compared per position and wont until they leave him at one.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Way to slant toward your Bias SlienceS. Not talking just to talk, let's look at the numbers.

April, May, AS break of July especially very hard on Bryant. Bad May for Rizzo. Yes Rizzo more consistent. (all in relation to being elite/top 5)

Bryant 12 hrs 855 OPS
Rizzo 14 hrs 1053 OPS

Those are the numbers on teams above .500.

yes Rizzo is clearly better.

The over/under .500 thing is superfluous to the argument. You play who you play and the large sample size sorts it out. Even if you were to look at it that way there are so many variables including opposing pitchers, weather, etc. etc. for it ever to carry any meaningful weight. Rizzo has 501 PA and Bryant 546 PA eliminating eliminating any discussion of sample size. Bryant this year is objectively better by the only known statistic, even if it's imperfect, we have at our disposal. The fact that Bryant is top 5 in both fWAR and bWAR tells the story. I love Anthony Rizzo, he'll get an MVP at some point and how great is that to have two guys of that caliber in the middle of your lineup? They are probably both top 5 players both years this year though Bryant has the upper hand.
 

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