Are Fox and Pace the right guys for this?

AussieBear · Sep 29, 2016

airtime143 said:
Someone trots out David Carr again... Good stuff.

Houston was an expansion team with a rookie QB. Not one of his offensive linemen had ever played a snap with each other. It was built in a single offseason by leftovers from other teams.

So- not only are we dealing with a brand new QB in reference to carr, we are dealing with everyone on the entire team learning the system.

I tell you what- If chicago gets rid of every single last offensive lineman and then builds an o-line from scratch on a single offseason... at that point I may buy a David Carr comparison.
Until that point, no. It has zero relevance.

it does have relevance.. iirc his sacks went down yr 2 but were near the top or led the league in year 3 and 4... maybe i should have mentioned tim couch. jake plummer.. blake bortles.. tony banks.. rick mirer.. geno smith... etc etc etc instead

the list is even longer if you add non rookies finally starting a full season in year 2-4 etc such as matt cassel.. trent dilfer.. steve young.. ron jaworski etc etc

some qbs can recover from all the abuse.. some cant....

jay still sees ghosts??

the bears have 3 new OL this year... so its okay theyre bad right..

Willis1524 · Sep 29, 2016

run and shoot said:
did u see how jay performed in the first 2 games?

Pretty damn good in the first half, bad in the second half. You see the difference between what he did and what Hoyer did? Cutlers play tanked after halftime, Hoyer only produced after the Cowboys went into cruise control. I wouldn't even call it produced. He showed zero urgency to try and score when there was still time to mount a possible come back. The only thing he did was try to pad his stats. Did you see his accuracy past dink and dunk? Horrendous. At least when Cutler throws the ball up, it at least gives the WR a chance on it. Not Hoyer. Did you watch the game or just check Hoyers stats, because you sound just like the lady from good morning football saying Hoyer played good.

run and shoot · Sep 29, 2016

Willis1524 said:
Pretty damn good in the first half, bad in the second half. You see the difference between what he did and what Hoyer did? Cutlers play tanked after halftime, Hoyer only produced after the Cowboys went into cruise control. I wouldn't even call it produced. He showed zero urgency to try and score when there was still time to mount a possible come back. The only thing he did was try to pad his stats. Did you see his accuracy past dink and dunk? Horrendous. At least when Cutler throws the ball up, it at least gives the WR a chance on it. Not Hoyer. Did you watch the game or just check Hoyers stats, because you sound just like the lady from good morning football saying Hoyer

A few things 1) I never said Hoyer " played good." 2) "Cutler throws the ball up, it at least gives the WR a chance on it"......u can't be serious.

3) Here's ur wrap up.......

Quote Originally Posted by run and shoot View Post
did u see how jay performed in the first 2 games?

Willis1524 said:
Pretty damn good in the first half, bad in the second half.

Thank YOU

Note: there are 4qrts. in American football

Willis1524 · Sep 29, 2016

run and shoot said:
A few things 1) I never said Hoyer " played good." 2) "Cutler throws the ball up, it at least gives the WR a chance on it"......u can't be serious.

3) Here's ur wrap up.......

Thank YOU

Note: there are 4qrts. in American football

So you'd rather every game be like the Cowboys game? Got ya. As for the throwing the ball up comment, I was referring to the garbage time drives. Like the throw to a wide open Bellamy(I think) that went over his head and out of bounds by like 15 yards. Great throw.

Monster O · Oct 1, 2016

The situation in New Orleans will be one to watch. Loomis will be on his way out if they don't turn this around.

I know Payton signed a new deal last year so not sure he would leave but if they continue to struggle ownership may pull the plug.

mecha · Oct 1, 2016

it's the first quarter of the season. isn't that how Lovie Smith did it, in quarters? :lmao:

I've found the halftime adjustments this year a little suspect. Cowboys game wasn't an accurate barometer, as the Cowboys were already way up on the Bears, they didn't need to break their asses to stop them. statistically Cutler looked sharp in the first halves of the first two games. wasn't there something about he hurt his thumb in week 1, and then made it worse in week 2? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt just this once, if your thumb on your throwing hand is jacked up, you're going to throw weird.

or perhaps the conspiracy theory that it's a bullshit injury is true. because you know, the team throughout the history of Jay Cutler's tenure has had to pull him out of games to mask his shitty play. are you people fucking high?

beyond that, Hoyer > Pickles (the player, not the poster). alas, not saying much. we'll see what happens. maybe they come out with some revolutionary new offensive scheme we've never witnessed before against a DIVISION RIVAL.

run and shoot · Oct 1, 2016

Willis1524 said:
So you'd rather every game be like the Cowboys game? Got ya. As for the throwing the ball up comment, I was referring to the garbage time drives. Like the throw to a wide open Bellamy(I think) that went over his head and out of bounds by like 15 yards. Great throw.

Willis1524 said:
So you'd rather every game be like the Cowboys game? Got ya.

stop projecting.

Fact......jay is not that good. Again he has looked bad this yr. He needs to stay on the bench. It's time to move on.

playthrough2001 · Oct 1, 2016

It's easy to rebuild an old roster without much talent and shift defensive schemes at the same time.

Willis1524 · Oct 1, 2016

run and shoot said:
stop projecting.

Fact......jay is not that good. Again he has looked bad this yr. He needs to stay on the bench. It's time to move on.

Fact.... Jay is better than Hoyer. I'd be okay with him staying on the bench for a young qb, but not Hoyer based on the cowboys game. Now if he comes out and lights up Detroit then its a different story.

run and shoot · Oct 1, 2016

Willis1524 said:
Fact.... Jay is better than Hoyer. I'd be okay with him staying on the bench for a young qb, but not Hoyer based on the cowboys game. Now if he comes out and lights up Detroit then its a different story.

the only difference in jay vs hoyer is no team has been stupid enuff to keep hoyer for 8yrs. As for a younger Qb playing no problem.....then we can draft a top Qb in 2017 and have a Qb competition.

anotheridiot · Oct 1, 2016

mecha said:
it's the first quarter of the season. isn't that how Lovie Smith did it, in quarters? :lmao:

I've found the halftime adjustments this year a little suspect. Cowboys game wasn't an accurate barometer, as the Cowboys were already way up on the Bears, they didn't need to break their asses to stop them. statistically Cutler looked sharp in the first halves of the first two games. wasn't there something about he hurt his thumb in week 1, and then made it worse in week 2? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt just this once, if your thumb on your throwing hand is jacked up, you're going to throw weird.

or perhaps the conspiracy theory that it's a bullshit injury is true. because you know, the team throughout the history of Jay Cutler's tenure has had to pull him out of games to mask his shitty play. are you people fucking high?

beyond that, Hoyer > Pickles (the player, not the poster). alas, not saying much. we'll see what happens. maybe they come out with some revolutionary new offensive scheme we've never witnessed before against a DIVISION RIVAL.

There is a reason teams script the first 15 plays, and alot of it is allowing the coaches to concentrate on how the opposition is playing against those formations so they can make adjustments in the second half. When Jay pulls away from center on the first drive of the game to change the play, it takes away the ability for coaches to learn and suggest the adjustments. I think that goes a long way as far as how bad the bears have been at making adjustments.

Coaches end up paying the price, which is why he is considered a coach killer.

airtime143 · Oct 1, 2016

Willis1524 said:
Fact.... Jay is better than Hoyer. I'd be okay with him staying on the bench for a young qb, but not Hoyer based on the cowboys game. Now if he comes out and lights up Detroit then its a different story.

Is he? Since the beginning of the 2015 season, which many thin encompasses cutlers best play, Hoyer has the superior td and int percentage.

Willis1524 · Oct 1, 2016

airtime143 said:
Is he? Since the beginning of the 2015 season, which many thin encompasses cutlers best play, Hoyer has the superior td and int percentage.

He is. Hoyer may play within the system better, that's why I said if he plays good against Detroit it's a different discussion. I don't think Fox would have went back to Cutler when McCown did what he did.

Washington · Oct 1, 2016

Willis1524 said:
. Hoyer may play within the system better,

Isn't that what coaches want as their starters - players that play better than others on the team in the system the coach is running?

Willis1524 · Oct 1, 2016

MojoRisin said:
Isn't that what coaches want as their starters - players than play better than others on the team in the system the coach is running?

I would think that. But that only works to a certain extent. If a qb has no big play potential because he is too conservative, that would work against him. That's how Hoyer played last week. Hopefully he's better with more first team reps.

Jailbreak · Oct 1, 2016

Hoyer will be exposed because they can't pass protect. He probably has a better arm than some think, but he's hardly Cutler as far as movement or arm strength. They need to play better up front and everything solves itself. Push someone off the line. Get into your stance and grab the guy. Football at its essence is about beating the guy in front of you on both lines.

Maybe Loggains can scheme? No evidence at all for that or his player evaluation. Negative thought of the day.

Louisville/Clemson might be interesting. UM won against a very good Wisconsin defense. ND won against a team most should. Illinois hung in for a bit, but is two years away from competing.

Venting a bit, but I refrained from swearing. The night is young.

Washington · Oct 1, 2016

Willis1524 said:
I would think that. But that only works to a certain extent. If a qb has no big play potential because he is too conservative, that would work against him. That's how Hoyer played last week. Hopefully he's better with more first team reps.

Gase throttled Cutty last year to prevent him from being a turnover machine. He wanted him to play in the system and it earned Gase a HC job ultimately because he did something no other OC could do. Hoyer played in the system and didn't throw picks. Perhaps Loggains pulled a page from the Gase playbook? Gase was ultra conservative last year with all the runs on 3rd down along with excessive bubble screens. It was done to stop Cutty from turning it over. Cutty has reverted back to his normal ways this year.

Jailbreak · Oct 1, 2016

I would say that Hoyer isn't even remotely capable of taking the snap and getting the ball out like Jay. This is why it worked with Jay and won't in Miami with Tannehill. There is less time in Chicago - teams are going to blitz them mercilessly until they beat it.

I just don't agree with the system argument altogether when judging a qb. I don't agree Hoyer is better than Cutler. I know it's popular, but more talent = more talent. Jay will chuck it sometimes, but he can manage a system. This is supposed to be Fox's offense and has nothing to do with the OC, right? It's poor coaching. Gase was good with Jay because he realized he had no time and adjusted the offense. Not rocket science, but it might very well be to Loggains.

I'm sick of judging Jay Cutler. Time for a smoke.

Sculpt · Oct 1, 2016

I'm not impressed with Loggains...

I was extremely deflated when I found out he was the new OC. It's not like Gase's Bears-2015-system was a worldbeater. I would have liked to bring in a notable OC, leaning towards a young up-in-comer.

I think our current Offensive players can score. To oversimplify a little... just give Massie some pass protection help on pass plays. Other than that, I think we have enough talent to score.

Since we're stuck with Loggains, Cutler and Hoyer... I'd rather play Jay than Hoyer. To a large extent, it's the blocking scheme that will give Cutler sufficient time to throw -- not to mention disguising your offensive plays better.

I would have taken Lynch. And at this point, I'd be planing on replacing Loggains.

WindyCity · Oct 1, 2016

Pace and Fox were hired for a rebuild, which means you have to show some building.

If this turns into a total meltdown that pretty much tells me that they suck.

Are Fox and Pace the right guys for this?

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