Would you rather

onebud34

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Okay, so we draft a QB at #11 or #16 instead of #2 or #4 overall... There are actually a lot of QBs in this years draft. This is coming back to what is the talent difference between Watson and Kizer and who ever is the favor of the month of April '17. The talent gap between who ever the top 3 QBs will have less significances on their success then going to a stable team vs a dysfunctional team.

If he's not ready to immediately start, you sit him. I viewed the Eagles as a dysfunctional team, even as recently as this offseason. So far they seem to be looking quite well with Wentz.
 

satchice

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No, you're missing it. It's not about what I want. I want the Bears to stop being a bush league operation run by morons and win a SB, hell win a fucking game at this point. But guess what, that shit isn't happening regardless of how much I want it. Nobody has to "want the Bears to lose", they're going to do it regardless this season. The only question is if they're going to be bad enough to land the top pick or not.

This progression and winning culture you want to breed, we've wasted 8 trying to build that winning culture around Cutler and what do we have to show for it? Nothing. We haven't sniffed the post-season in 5 years. Another limp dick 7-9 season and trotting Cutler out there again next season doesn't get this team any closer to building a winning culture.

The first step in building a winning culture (besides cleaning house at Halas Hall) is solving the QB problem and the best way to do that is take the best prospect you can at that position. The higher the pick the better. As for the players I'm pretty sure the professional athletes on the team would get over a 2-14 season pretty fucking quickly when they landed Kizer or whoever with the #1 pick instead of knowing they're about to waste another year of their careers under a going nowhere bum at the end of his career like Cutler.


I agree with a lot of what you said, but some where along the way you spun off topic... The OP posted something like Would you rather see the Bears ..totally fall apart and get the top pick or Turn it around and basically ALL of the young guys take the next step prove that they are pros and turn the season around to a 7-9 team (still a top 15 draft pick) Yes, I agree nothing we say or do on this message board will have any sway on the outcome of the games and the personal decisions on the Chicago Bears. I realize that we both know this is all just bullshit, but that is not what the OP's question was...

In all likelihood a 1-15 or 2-14 finish means the team is lost, it will have a negative impact on FA. Jeffery will likely go elsewhere, White likely is declared a bust. RB Core has zero confidence. So yes I would rater have the young guys all take the next step becoming better players and us to get a little worst draft pick...
 

satchice

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Additionally I'd argue that a guy like Cutler does more to hurt the team morale/confidence/buy-in/whatever you want to call it. I can't imagine any of the young players on this team came into spring training excited about the prospects of having their team lead by Cutler at this point in his career. Contrast that with the excitement and buy-in a guy like Kizer/Watson/Kayaa/etc would generate.

sure I can agree with that.. But the question I have is would the guys currently on the team now have any preference NEXT year from a #3 overall QB pick to a #13 overall QB pick.. I think there excitement level/ buy-in would be the same... I think every one on the Dallas roster got behind Dak and everyone in Oakland got behind Carr I don't think where the QB is drafted makes any difference to the players.
 

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Related thoughts of mine from another thread:

I think the biggest problem is Pace's top picks were both "projects". I don't think anyone really expected Floyd or White to step in and contribute right away. White wasn't Amari Cooper and Floyd wasn't an NFL ready guy like Khalil Mack. The progress is going to be very incremental and while the line play might improve we all know the NFL is about playmakers. The problem is the "boring" line players could improve and show promise(and IMO have) but the guys that really help you win games in the NFL(players like White/Floyd/Howard) are going to have the slower developmental curve.

I don't see the Bears going 0-16 but IMO they could easily go 4-12 and I could feel better in January about the future of this team than I did in August.
 

satchice

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If he's not ready to immediately start, you sit him. I viewed the Eagles as a dysfunctional team, even as recently as this offseason. So far they seem to be looking quite well with Wentz.

I'm at the point now that who ever we draft we start.. The best way to get better is to get reps. Regardless what the some may believe I don't think the Offense is in shambles to the point that it will ruin a player. I think Offense is actually pretty good shape after we replace the QB, this is assuming that we keep Alshon. I really believe in Howard is the real deal, and White will continue to progress. I would like to see us draft 2 Tackles and sign a couple in FA.
 

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I realize that we both know this is all just bullshit, but that is not what the OP's question was...

No offense to the OP but his question/scenario is dumb. As others have already said in this thread the team can finish 1-15/2-14/whatever while still having individual young players show promise. It's not some either or type thing.

In all likelihood a 1-15 or 2-14 finish means the team is lost, it will have a negative impact on FA. Jeffery will likely go elsewhere, White likely is declared a bust. RB Core has zero confidence. So yes I would rater have the young guys all take the next step becoming better players and us to get a little worst draft pick...

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous logic. Jeffery will go wherever shows him the money. If the Bears pony up the cash I guarantee you he will give 0 fucks that the team just finished 1-15 or whatever. Let's be real here, a 1-15 season isn't going to send White, Floyd, Howard, etc into some tailspin depression putting them on suicide watch and ruin their careers. These are adults playing to get paid, not 12 year old children playing "for the love of the game" or whatever other bullshit you want to believe in.

If you're truly interested in seeing these young players "take the next step" the best thing that can happen for them is giving them the top rated QB in the draft. A guy that might actually be one of those rare players that elevates those around him to play better.

We sure as hell don't have that type of guy with Cutler. What we currently have is a guy that's made little to no self improvement in 11 seasons, inspires no confidence, and seemingly doesn't give 2 shits whether he wins or loses. You don't think that type of attitude isn't infectious? I'd argue that 8 years of having your team lead by that type of "leader" has done FAAAAAAAR greater damage than a single losing season resulting in the #1 pick ever could.
 

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I'm assuming you're joking

I guess you haven't watched Hoyer and Barkley play.

Throw in QBs that are even shittier than Cutler, but I want the young kids to get valuable experience in the meantime. Genius!

Wanting the ship to sink is one thing. But you want the ship to sink and have the deck hands to keep fishing so they can get experience in the process...
 

Ej63090

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I wonder if Jeffrey ghosts a lot of the season and comes short of 1000 yards receiving would that significantly affect his market share?

A losing Bears team along with trying to get Kevin White more featured along with the playing style of Hoyer may accomplish that. Would be an interesting situation.
 

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I guess you haven't watched Hoyer or Barkley play....Throw in QBs that are even shittier than Cutler

Barkley is pretty much a complete unknown. Very few people have seen him play(1 career pass attempt since November 3rd, 2013), and we haven't seen him play here in Chicago, no. He could suck to high heavens. He could be great here. He could be any varying degrees of in between. You might as well find out so you can make the most informed decision possible on him.

Your Hoyer comment is laughable.

Hoyer the last two seasons:
13 games (10 starts)
3000 yards(230.8 YPG)
21 TD's
7 INT's
91.6 rating
61% Compl %

Cutler
17 games(17 starts)
4032 yards(237.2 YPG)
64% compl %
22 TD's
13 INT's
90.9 passer rating




Why do people insist on acting as though Cutler is better/more productive than he actually is?
 
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onebud34

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I guess you haven't watched Hoyer and Barkley play.

Throw in QBs that are even shittier than Cutler, but I want the young kids to get valuable experience in the meantime. Genius!

Wanting the ship to sink is one thing. But you want the ship to sink and have the deck hands to keep fishing so they can get experience in the process...

Cutler's 75.7 passer rating is far and above Hoyer's for that matter.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
 

didshereallysaythat

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Barkley is pretty much a complete unknown. Very few people have seen him play(1 career pass attempt since November 3rd, 2013), and we haven't seen him play here in Chicago, no. He could suck to high heavens. He could be great here. He could be any varying degrees of in between. You might as well find out so you can make the most informed decision possible on him.

Your Hoyer comment is laughable.

Hoyer the last two seasons:
13 games (10 starts)
3000 yards(230.8 YPG)
21 TD's
7 INT's
91.6 rating
61% Compl %

Cutler
17 games(17 starts)
4032 yards(237.2 YPG)
64% compl %
22 TD's
13 INT's
90.9 passer rating




Why do people insist on acting as though Cutler is better/more productive than he actually is?

It will be interesting to see if they keep Hoyer next year as backup under the new QB.
 

Newblood

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Cutler's 75.7 passer rating is far and above Hoyer's for that matter.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

What kind of a fool would use this years stats only to compare Cutler vs Hoyer passer rating? Just wow...

Ones played against two top 5 defenses, one has played one game versus one of the worse defenses. Fucking genius.

And the sad part is, the guy playing against the shitty defense still looked bad. His passer rating looks decent when he throws nearly every pass to a WR 5 yards out of bounds because he is afraid he is going to get picked.

I swear, some of you would hump Rob Snyder if he was the Bears backup QB.

Seriously? It's like you don't even watch the guys play? I swear some of you would hump any Bear 2nd string QB.

All the Bears QBs are shit, but if you think any of the backups are better than Cutler, then you are gullible as hell.
 

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What kind of a fool would use this years stats only to compare Cutler vs Hoyer passer rating? Just wow...

Ones played against two top 5 defenses, one has played one game versus one of the worse defenses. Fucking genius.

And the sad part is, the guy playing against the shitty defense still looked bad. His passer rating looks decent when he throws nearly every pass to a WR 5 yards out of bounds because he is afraid he is going to get picked.

I swear, some of you would hump Rob Snyder if he was the Bears backup QB.

Seriously? It's like you don't even watch the guys play? I swear some of you would hump any Bear 2nd string QB.

All the Bears QBs are shit, but if you think any of the backups are better than Cutler, then you are gullible as hell.

1. I posted their last two years worth of numbers.

2. Why are you acting as though we haven't seen Cutler get outperformed by backups before?......
 

onebud34

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What kind of a fool would use this years stats only to compare Cutler vs Hoyer passer rating? Just wow...

Apparently, an intelligent fool.

Why would you want to compare Hoyer's 2014 stats with Cutlers?
 

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1. I posted their last two years worth of numbers.

2. Why are you acting as though we haven't seen Cutler get outperformed by backups before?......

Why not post Hoyers 2011 season in there too? That is about as meaningful as using Hoyers 1 plus a few snaps games this year to help the average.

:obama:
 

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Why not post Hoyers 2011 season in there too?
:obama:

Because I would assume that the most recent performance of the QB's is the most relevant to evaluating how well they are currently playing and how good they currently are......................I really don't think Hoyer's 2011 has any bearing on his 2016.
 

onebud34

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It's pretty simple, they're both not that good. But Hoyer has looked better than Cutler by a significant margin


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Newblood

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Because I would assume that the most recent performance of the QB's is the most relevant to evaluating how well they are currently playing and how good they currently are......................I really don't think Hoyer's 2011 has any bearing on his 2016.

Yeah, and I'm sure 1 game projects out equally for the rest of the year... I hope you really don't believe the shit you post?
 

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It's pretty simple, they're both not that good. But Hoyer has looked better than Cutler by a significant margin


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Hoyer career passer rating: 82.8

Cutler career passer rating: 85.9
 

FirstTimer

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Yeah, and I'm sure 1 game projects out equally for the rest of the year... I hope you really don't believe the shit you post?

I posted Hoyer's last 13 games worth of stats. What's your issue?
 

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