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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    Hmmm. He subbed Almora as a pinch runner for Schwarber in the 10th. Almora made a very heads up play tagging and getting good to 2B. That opened up 1B for Cleveland to walk Rizzo and get to Zobrist, which resulted in the go ahead run. Of course the players have to execute, but Maddon made the switch from Schwarbs to Almora. That isn't minimizing mistakes.
    I take it you missed the first 8 innings of the game? Not sure why you are focusing on Schwarber's baserunning or treating Maddon's decision to lift ACL guy for a pinch runner in the 10th inning as some type of "stroke of genius" move.

    There are plenty of other things to discuss.

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  4. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    This just emphasizes my point that a manager doesn't win games, but can lose them. The manager's job is to minimize mistakes.
    I would say that in the regular season, but when it comes to the playoffs, the use of the bullpen is critical. That can mean wins and losses.

    It's just so much more amplified in the playoffs.
    Something clever goes here.

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  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    Nobody sent Schwarber on the base hit. Schwarber sent Schwarber on the base hit.
    And you know this how? Baseball teams have first base coaches. Players listen to them.
    Something clever goes here.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    Hmmm. He subbed Almora as a pinch runner for Schwarber in the 10th. Almora made a very heads up play tagging and getting good to 2B. That opened up 1B for Cleveland to walk Rizzo and get to Zobrist, which resulted in the go ahead run. Of course the players have to execute, but Maddon made the switch from Schwarbs to Almora. That isn't minimizing mistakes.
    Yeah, but let's be honest - that was a no brainer. It was a lead off base hit. They needed a run. Every single manager in MLB would pinch run Schwarber there. Almora was basically the ONLY choice since Coughlin had already pinch run.

    It worked out but I don't give Maddon any special praise for that. It was the most obvious decision for a manager to make this post season.
    Something clever goes here.

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  9. #25
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    One thing I will say is that I don't think Hendricks was "dealing". He was kinda just getting by. Leadoff hit in 2nd and then guy gets picked off. Then another hit. Then double play. Lead off double in 3rd and sac bunt to 3rd. Then hit. Then after the error, a flyout on a 3-1 pitch. Then lineout to 3rd. That stretch there was really lucky to only give up 1 run.

    I will say that he rebounded nicely in the 4th and 5th. But of all the bad moves Maddon made, I could understand taking him out there in the 5th. It was a tough call.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBabiesHaveNoPride View Post
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    Yeah, but let's be honest - that was a no brainer. It was a lead off base hit. They needed a run. Every single manager in MLB would pinch run Schwarber there. Almora was basically the ONLY choice since Coughlin had already pinch run.

    It worked out but I don't give Maddon any special praise for that. It was the most obvious decision for a manager to make this post season.
    I remember awhile back the Yankees were in the World Series, and Joe Torre put in Mariano Rivera to pitch the 9th inning. Rivera record 3 outs and the Yankees won the game. I always thought that was one of the greatest managerial moves in postseason history...its right up there with Maddon's decision to pinch-run for Schwarber.

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  13. #27
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    Without a doubt Hendricks was not done, he was still throwing quality pitches and he WAS painting the corners, just not getting the calls. He had already worked through two jams, his pitch count was not elevated.

    Hell Maddon himself said that he did not want to bring in Lester unless it was a clean inning. I think he panicked.

    We may never know for sure but I thought Hendricks could have gone not only to the final out in the 5, but he was throwing well enough to roll him back out there in the 6th.

    Essentially, the Cubs batters bailed him out.

    What the hell, we won!!!
    Bear Down!

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    I remember awhile back the Yankees were in the World Series, and Joe Torre put in Mariano Rivera to pitch the 9th inning. Rivera record 3 outs and the Yankees won the game. I always thought that was one of the greatest managerial moves in postseason history...its right up there with Maddon's decision to pinch-run for Schwarber.
    No. I think the decision for Bill Belicheck to start Tom Brady in the Super Bowl was the best World Series Decision ever.
    Something clever goes here.

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  17. #29
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    Terry Francona had a very rough night as well.

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    It was a TERRIBLE game for Maddon, pulling Hendricks made no sense.

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  21. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    I take it you missed the first 8 innings of the game? Not sure why you are focusing on Schwarber's baserunning or treating Maddon's decision to lift ACL guy for a pinch runner in the 10th inning as some type of "stroke of genius" move.

    There are plenty of other things to discuss.
    So we can only mention what Maddon fucked up and not what he did right in this thread. Got it.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  22. #32
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    I think it is safe to say that if Schwarber does not come back, the Cubs don't win the WS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    Terry Francona had a very rough night as well.
    One thing that confounded me all series was Francona's refusal to have Brandon Guyer in the regular lineup. Whenever he'd come up, he'd hit the ball hard or somehow get on base. The rest of the Indians outfield was absolute garbage, both at the plate and in the field.

    I didn't really agree with the decision to issue Rizzo the IW. The decision to lift Perez to have Naquin pinch hit for him (HA!) and be left with Yan Gomes at C in the late innings probably cost Francona, too. I already mentioned the infield depth on Montero's hit. I also was surprised he left Kluber in to start the 5th.

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  25. #34
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    I know this because it isn't little league. The ball was in front of him running to first. That was all his call to run to 2B. If the ball was in LF, you might have a point that the 1B helped send him to 2B.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  26. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    So we can only mention what Maddon fucked up and not what he did right in this thread. Got it.
    You are truly incredible...with all that happened in Game 7, all the talking points, all the managerial decisions to be critiqued....the thing that stood out to you is Maddon's decision to pinch-run from Schwarber in the 10th. I never held your baseball opinion in high regard, but this is a new low for you. You are completely incapable of discussing baseball.

    Please discuss ANY of the following OP points:

    To me, the most obvious screw up was pulling Kyle Hendricks. When the Cubs went up 5-1 and Hendricks was mowing down the Indian batters, I was extremely confident that the Cubs would win. The Indians were out of it. They had no momentum. But the moment Maddon took Hendricks out and brought in Lester (with baserunners!), it felt like the Indians woke back up. Lester looked immediately terrible, bouncing every other pitch in front of home plate.

    Lester settled down and pitched well. I thought Maddon could have left Lester in to face one more batter. Bringing in an overworked Chapman with runners on seemed like a recipe for disaster, which it became. I was stunned when Maddon sent Chapman out for the 9th, and continued to be stunned when Chapman escaped without giving up a run.

    The two-strike safety squeeze with Baez was incredible. Baez hit a HR earlier in the game, and with Heyward on 3rd and Yan Gomes catching, any shallow fly ball would score Heyward. Just let him swing the bat.

    In the end, everything worked out. With bases loaded, 1 out, and Montero at the plate, Francona inexplicably had his infield play in for a force at home instead of having his middle infield at double play depth, Montero grounds a ready-made double play ball to the SS area, but Lindor is too far in to make a play and another run scores...the run that proved to be the difference in the series.

    Here is where I rank Maddon's game amongst the worst managed postseason games I can recall...

    4) 1981 World Series, Game 6. Yankees need to win to stay alive. Tommy John had shutout the Dodgers for a 3-0 win in game 2. Bottom of the 4th in a 1-1 game, manager Bob Lemon elects to pinch hit for John. The batter flies out, inning over. The Yankees bullpen proceeds to give up 3 runs in the 5th, 4 runs in the 6th, eventually losing the game 9-2 and the series.

    3) 2016, World Series, Game 7. Joe Maddon pulls starter Kyle Hendricks in the bottom of the 5th with a 5-1 lead. Chaos ensues.

    2) 1986, World Series, Game 6. Red Sox can clinch series with a win. Manager John McNamara pulls Cy Young winner Roger Clemens after 7 innings with a 3-2 lead. Red Sox bullpen immediately gives up a run in the 8th. Red Sox score 2 runs in top of 9th to lead 5-3. McNamara leaves Bill Buckner at 1B for bottom of 9th, when during the season Dave Stapleton was the regular late-inning 1B. Mets score winning runs on Buckner error.

    1) 1977, ALCS, Game 5. Deciding game of Royals-Yankees series. Royals manager Whitey Herzog pulls starter Paul Splitorff after 7 innings with a 3-1 lead. Royals bullpen immediately gives up a run in the 8th to make it 3-2. Instead of bringing in his closer for the 9th inning, Herzog elects to bring in Game 3 starter Dennis Leonard on short rest. After giving up a single and a walk and getting no one out, Herzog pulls Leonard. Instead of bringing in his closer, Herzog then elects to bring in Game 4 starter Larry Gura on NO REST. Royals give up 3 runs to lose the game 5-3 and the series.

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  28. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    Terry Francona had a very rough night as well.
    How so?

    I thought he had a rough night in terms of his guys didn't end up performing but you pretty much knew what his moves were before the game even started.

  29. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    You are truly incredible...with all that happened in Game 7, all the talking points, all the managerial decisions to be critiqued....the thing that stood out to you is Maddon's decision to pinch-run from Schwarber in the 10th. I never held your baseball opinion in high regard, but this is a new low for you. You are completely incapable of discussing baseball.

    Please discuss ANY of the following OP points:

    To me, the most obvious screw up was pulling Kyle Hendricks. When the Cubs went up 5-1 and Hendricks was mowing down the Indian batters, I was extremely confident that the Cubs would win. The Indians were out of it. They had no momentum. But the moment Maddon took Hendricks out and brought in Lester (with baserunners!), it felt like the Indians woke back up. Lester looked immediately terrible, bouncing every other pitch in front of home plate.

    Lester settled down and pitched well. I thought Maddon could have left Lester in to face one more batter. Bringing in an overworked Chapman with runners on seemed like a recipe for disaster, which it became. I was stunned when Maddon sent Chapman out for the 9th, and continued to be stunned when Chapman escaped without giving up a run.

    The two-strike safety squeeze with Baez was incredible. Baez hit a HR earlier in the game, and with Heyward on 3rd and Yan Gomes catching, any shallow fly ball would score Heyward. Just let him swing the bat.

    In the end, everything worked out. With bases loaded, 1 out, and Montero at the plate, Francona inexplicably had his infield play in for a force at home instead of having his middle infield at double play depth, Montero grounds a ready-made double play ball to the SS area, but Lindor is too far in to make a play and another run scores...the run that proved to be the difference in the series.

    Here is where I rank Maddon's game amongst the worst managed postseason games I can recall...

    4) 1981 World Series, Game 6. Yankees need to win to stay alive. Tommy John had shutout the Dodgers for a 3-0 win in game 2. Bottom of the 4th in a 1-1 game, manager Bob Lemon elects to pinch hit for John. The batter flies out, inning over. The Yankees bullpen proceeds to give up 3 runs in the 5th, 4 runs in the 6th, eventually losing the game 9-2 and the series.

    3) 2016, World Series, Game 7. Joe Maddon pulls starter Kyle Hendricks in the bottom of the 5th with a 5-1 lead. Chaos ensues.

    2) 1986, World Series, Game 6. Red Sox can clinch series with a win. Manager John McNamara pulls Cy Young winner Roger Clemens after 7 innings with a 3-2 lead. Red Sox bullpen immediately gives up a run in the 8th. Red Sox score 2 runs in top of 9th to lead 5-3. McNamara leaves Bill Buckner at 1B for bottom of 9th, when during the season Dave Stapleton was the regular late-inning 1B. Mets score winning runs on Buckner error.

    1) 1977, ALCS, Game 5. Deciding game of Royals-Yankees series. Royals manager Whitey Herzog pulls starter Paul Splitorff after 7 innings with a 3-1 lead. Royals bullpen immediately gives up a run in the 8th to make it 3-2. Instead of bringing in his closer for the 9th inning, Herzog elects to bring in Game 3 starter Dennis Leonard on short rest. After giving up a single and a walk and getting no one out, Herzog pulls Leonard. Instead of bringing in his closer, Herzog then elects to bring in Game 4 starter Larry Gura on NO REST. Royals give up 3 runs to lose the game 5-3 and the series.

    Cubs will trade Baez though....

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  31. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    I know this because it isn't little league. The ball was in front of him running to first. That was all his call to run to 2B. If the ball was in LF, you might have a point that the 1B helped send him to 2B.
    If you are going to be this adamant about it, you're gonna have to prove your positioning that Schwarber was the one who decided to send him to second and not the first base coach, who is paid to do just that.
    Something clever goes here.

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  33. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    I know this because it isn't little league. The ball was in front of him running to first. That was all his call to run to 2B. If the ball was in LF, you might have a point that the 1B helped send him to 2B.
    Good point. When I was in Little League, we never really used pinch-runners. Just another illustration of Joe Maddon being "ahead of the curve" with his Game 7 strategy.

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  35. #40
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    I was watching a hockey game the other day. One team was down a goal. There was 1:20 left.

    The coach pulled the goalie for an extra attacker.

    I was blown away by the brilliance of that decision.

    I was also watching a college football game. Time was expiring and team was down by 2. He brought in his kicker to attempt a field goal as time expired. That was just pure genius.
    Something clever goes here.

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