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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBabiesHaveNoPride View Post
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    Yeah, but let's be honest - that was a no brainer. It was a lead off base hit. They needed a run. Every single manager in MLB would pinch run Schwarber there. Almora was basically the ONLY choice since Coughlin had already pinch run.

    It worked out but I don't give Maddon any special praise for that. It was the most obvious decision for a manager to make this post season.
    That was a win or go home move. If he doesn't score, Joe's replaced an offensive catalyst who was on fire with a post-season 0-fer.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    How so?

    I thought he had a rough night in terms of his guys didn't end up performing but you pretty much knew what his moves were before the game even started.
    He left Kluber in long after it was clear he had absolutely nothing. Did Kluber even have a single K last night? His stuff was completely mundane. It was like Francona had already made up his mind pre-game "I'm going Kluber to Miller to Allen" just like Maddon decided it was Hendricks to Lester to Chapman no matter what the situation dictated.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    That was a win or go home move. If he doesn't score, Joe's replaced an offensive catalyst who was on fire with a post-season 0-fer.
    You're really grasping to give Maddon credit here. Pinch-running for Schwarber after the leadoff hit in extra innings might have been the most obvious move of the night.

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    You are truly incredible...with all that happened in Game 7, all the talking points, all the managerial decisions to be critiqued....the thing that stood out to you is Maddon's decision to pinch-run from Schwarber in the 10th. I never held your baseball opinion in high regard, but this is a new low for you. You are completely incapable of discussing baseball.

    Please discuss ANY of the following OP points:

    To me, the most obvious screw up was pulling Kyle Hendricks. When the Cubs went up 5-1 and Hendricks was mowing down the Indian batters, I was extremely confident that the Cubs would win. The Indians were out of it. They had no momentum. But the moment Maddon took Hendricks out and brought in Lester (with baserunners!), it felt like the Indians woke back up. Lester looked immediately terrible, bouncing every other pitch in front of home plate.

    Lester settled down and pitched well. I thought Maddon could have left Lester in to face one more batter. Bringing in an overworked Chapman with runners on seemed like a recipe for disaster, which it became. I was stunned when Maddon sent Chapman out for the 9th, and continued to be stunned when Chapman escaped without giving up a run.

    The two-strike safety squeeze with Baez was incredible. Baez hit a HR earlier in the game, and with Heyward on 3rd and Yan Gomes catching, any shallow fly ball would score Heyward. Just let him swing the bat.

    In the end, everything worked out. With bases loaded, 1 out, and Montero at the plate, Francona inexplicably had his infield play in for a force at home instead of having his middle infield at double play depth, Montero grounds a ready-made double play ball to the SS area, but Lindor is too far in to make a play and another run scores...the run that proved to be the difference in the series.

    Here is where I rank Maddon's game amongst the worst managed postseason games I can recall...

    4) 1981 World Series, Game 6. Yankees need to win to stay alive. Tommy John had shutout the Dodgers for a 3-0 win in game 2. Bottom of the 4th in a 1-1 game, manager Bob Lemon elects to pinch hit for John. The batter flies out, inning over. The Yankees bullpen proceeds to give up 3 runs in the 5th, 4 runs in the 6th, eventually losing the game 9-2 and the series.

    3) 2016, World Series, Game 7. Joe Maddon pulls starter Kyle Hendricks in the bottom of the 5th with a 5-1 lead. Chaos ensues.

    2) 1986, World Series, Game 6. Red Sox can clinch series with a win. Manager John McNamara pulls Cy Young winner Roger Clemens after 7 innings with a 3-2 lead. Red Sox bullpen immediately gives up a run in the 8th. Red Sox score 2 runs in top of 9th to lead 5-3. McNamara leaves Bill Buckner at 1B for bottom of 9th, when during the season Dave Stapleton was the regular late-inning 1B. Mets score winning runs on Buckner error.

    1) 1977, ALCS, Game 5. Deciding game of Royals-Yankees series. Royals manager Whitey Herzog pulls starter Paul Splitorff after 7 innings with a 3-1 lead. Royals bullpen immediately gives up a run in the 8th to make it 3-2. Instead of bringing in his closer for the 9th inning, Herzog elects to bring in Game 3 starter Dennis Leonard on short rest. After giving up a single and a walk and getting no one out, Herzog pulls Leonard. Instead of bringing in his closer, Herzog then elects to bring in Game 4 starter Larry Gura on NO REST. Royals give up 3 runs to lose the game 5-3 and the series.
    Quit being a dipshit. My post was a direct response to Brett05 regarding managers and how they can't win games, they can only minimize mistakes.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    That was a win or go home move. If he doesn't score, Joe's replaced an offensive catalyst who was on fire with a post-season 0-fer.
    Holy shit, you are STILL HERE? You are more resilient than the 2016 Cubs.

    In regards to your post, we are still talking about a move made in the 10th inning, right???

    You remind me of Jon Lester saying before Game 7 "If we lose this game, our season is over".

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBabiesHaveNoPride View Post
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    If you are going to be this adamant about it, you're gonna have to prove your positioning that Schwarber was the one who decided to send him to second and not the first base coach, who is paid to do just that.
    The first base coach isn't paid to do that. The 3B coach doesn't send guys past 2B to get to third on a ball hit to LF either.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    You're really grasping to give Maddon credit here. Pinch-running for Schwarber after the leadoff hit in extra innings might have been the most obvious move of the night.
    The point was he made the move. It's I direct response to Brett's post that managers can only minimize mistakes.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    Quit being a dipshit. My post was a direct response to Brett05 regarding managers and how they can't win games, they can only minimize mistakes.
    Great. Perhaps you and Brett05 can continue this discussion via PM and you can leave this thread and everyone else can talk about managerial decisions in terms other than "win or go home". Thanks in advance.

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  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    The point was he made the move.
    Thanks for confirming/reconfirming that Maddon did indeed insert Almora to pinch run for Schwarber. I was unclear on that. As you can probably tell from my lengthy OP, I wasn't really paying attention to the game.

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  16. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    Great. Perhaps you and Brett05 can continue this discussion via PM and you can leave this thread and everyone else can talk about managerial decisions in terms other than "win or go home". Thanks in advance.
    Only if you leave CCS all together as you should.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    Only if you leave CCS all together as you should.
    Wow...sounds like another literal "win or go home" type of decision.

    Just trying to bury the hatchet here...do you have any thoughts on any decision made in Game 7 by either manager, other than Maddon's decision to pinch run for Schwarber?

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  19. #52
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    Im not sure why people think Maddon was so bad. He rode 3 of his horses last night just like Francona rode three of his horses. Davis homerun was a fluke on a pitch 4 inches off the plate. Ross doesnt throw the ball in the stands. They dont score two runs. This thread is just like the Bears forum. Im gonna celebrate the first WS victory in a 108 years and thank Joe Maddon FOR BEING THE BEST COACH in CUBS HISTORY!!!!!
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  20. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    Thanks for confirming/reconfirming that Maddon did indeed insert Almora to pinch run for Schwarber. I was unclear on that. As you can probably tell from my lengthy OP, I wasn't really paying attention to the game.
    No one but you was paying attention to the game. We have an entire game thread where people discussed the moves already and pointed out the flaws of Maddon's pitching moves. As usual, you are late to the party.
    Quote from Omeletpants for WSG3 - "Neither Soler nor Heyward would get a hit so I would go for the defense in Heyward"
    Fact: Soler went 2-3 with a triple.


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  21. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    The point was he made the move. It's I direct response to Brett's post that managers can only minimize mistakes.
    That move was the equivalent of a participation trophy, and it is deserving of no praise. And I say that as a fan of Joe Maddon.

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  23. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    That was a win or go home move. If he doesn't score, Joe's replaced an offensive catalyst who was on fire with a post-season 0-fer.
    Kind of a pointless argument. Can you at least acknowledge that the decision to replace the slowest runner on the team who came off a season eating ACL injury for the fastest available player - after a leadoff hit - with no outs - with Bryant/Rizzo/Zobrist coming up - in the top of the 10th inning - in the World Series - was a decision that EVERY SINGLE MANAGER at every level of baseball would do?

    But to continue on your logic. Almora replaced Schwarber. Yes, Almora was an O-fer. But Almora's at bat probably wouldn't come up until the 12th or 13th inning. The game might be, I don't know, OVER by then.

    Seriously, think this through man.
    Something clever goes here.

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  25. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    He left Kluber in long after it was clear he had absolutely nothing. Did Kluber even have a single K last night? His stuff was completely mundane. It was like Francona had already made up his mind pre-game "I'm going Kluber to Miller to Allen" just like Maddon decided it was Hendricks to Lester to Chapman no matter what the situation dictated.
    This. And he had a well rested Miller, who could then be followed up by Shaw and Allen. That pen is fantastic.
    Something clever goes here.

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  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    Im not sure why people think Maddon was so bad. He rode 3 of his horses last night just like Francona rode three of his horses. Davis homerun was a fluke on a pitch 4 inches off the plate. Ross doesnt throw the ball in the stands. They dont score two runs. This thread is just like the Bears forum. Im gonna celebrate the first WS victory in a 108 years and thank Joe Maddon FOR BEING THE BEST COACH in CUBS HISTORY!!!!!
    The missteps started with Maddon's use/overuse of Chapman in Game 6. Inserting Lester with runners on. Inserting Chapman with runners on. Maddon kind of laid out his plan after Game 5, then did the complete opposite of his plan in Games 6 and 7. Very strange.

    I also think his decision to pull Hendricks was even worse than Lemon's decision to pull John. At least Lemon could 'justify' his decision by saying he wanted to bring in a pinch hitter...Maddon's decision to pull Hendricks was entirely dependent on the pitching aspect. And, as previously mentioned, putting Lester in during a 'dirty' inning went against Maddon's own 'plan'.

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  29. #58
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    Isn't it great that people can sit here and bitch about the 1st manager to lead the Cubs to a World Series championship in 108 years versus bitching about things like Alou and Bartman?

    That said, the dust has not even settled yet on one of the most historic moments in sports history and the only thread that can be started is a bitching thread about the manager. Can't people just be fucking happy and celebrate versus always having to find fault in everything Chicago sports related?

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    The first base coach isn't paid to do that. The 3B coach doesn't send guys past 2B to get to third on a ball hit to LF either.

    Wait, the first base coach isn't paid to tell a guy when to stay at first or to go to extend to a double?

    Are you HONESTLY typing this?
    Something clever goes here.

  31. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    He left Kluber in long after it was clear he had absolutely nothing. Did Kluber even have a single K last night? His stuff was completely mundane. It was like Francona had already made up his mind pre-game "I'm going Kluber to Miller to Allen" just like Maddon decided it was Hendricks to Lester to Chapman no matter what the situation dictated.
    I guess, but what other bullets did Tito have? I mean, you have to dance with who brought you and does he bring in Miller earlier? Salazar? The Indians were built around those 3-4 guys all post season and for good reason, Francona had little confidence in anyone else. Like I said, his moves didn't work but I thought his choices were obvious. You just have to hope the guys perform.

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