Offseason discussion/rumors

Parade_Rain · Dec 20, 2016

beckdawg said:
http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/12/20/early-video-of-jason-heywards-apparent-swing-changes/

As i've said before I'm not a mechanics guy so someone else can probably provide more insight than me but that does look smoother than his previous swing.

Swing plane issues yet. Too interested in getting on front leg as opposed to staying behind it. Needs to control the stride with his back side. Other parts are looking good. I know this isn't a finished product, so I will patiently wait to see how it ends up. One thing about Jason is that he is a hard worker and I hope this pays off for him.

anotheridiot · Dec 21, 2016

I think the jerking off the elephant was his biggest hitch. At least that is down to one seemingly when the pitcher releases the ball.

Bottom line in all honesty is 182 million is too much for a guy that needed to rework his entire swing mechanics. But theo still gets a pass on this one.

TC in Mississippi · Dec 21, 2016

anotheridiot said:
Bottom line in all honesty is 182 million is too much for a guy that needed to rework his entire swing mechanics. But theo still gets a pass on this one.

He was a 6 WAR player in 2015, he didn't need his swing mechanics completely reworked. The issue was that people see that big, athletic body and think that there's power there and frankly maybe there isn't. To me that's where the Cubs made their mistake and combined with the wrist injury he couldn't even get back to his baseline flawed swing. This swing that they're working on looks designed to produce more line drives which could lead to a small increase in power but power isn't the objective anymore. He averaged 5 WAR/season from 2012-2015 and his contract is in line with that production. If he can back to something like .270/.350/.440 with 15 HR he'll be that 5 WAR player again and considering there were only 2 RF over 5 WAR in all of MLB (Mookie Betts & Adam Eaton) you'll take that.

Parade_Rain · Dec 21, 2016

TC in Mississippi said:
He was a 6 WAR player in 2015, he didn't need his swing mechanics completely reworked. The issue was that people see that big, athletic body and think that there's power there and frankly maybe there isn't. To me that's where the Cubs made their mistake and combined with the wrist injury he couldn't even get back to his baseline flawed swing. This swing that they're working on looks designed to produce more line drives which could lead to a small increase in power but power isn't the objective anymore. He averaged 5 WAR/season from 2012-2015 and his contract is in line with that production. If he can back to something like .270/.350/.440 with 15 HR he'll be that 5 WAR player again and considering there were only 2 RF over 5 WAR in all of MLB (Mookie Betts & Adam Eaton) you'll take that.

He needs to have a swing plane that produces LD. The current swing plane, even in newer video produces 4-3 GB.

beckdawg · Dec 21, 2016

Rangers DFA'd Tyrell Jenkins. I can imagine the cubs claiming him given he's 24 and has options

TC in Mississippi · Dec 21, 2016

Parade_Rain said:
He needs to have a swing plane that produces LD. The current swing plane, even in newer video produces 4-3 GB.

Maybe but it looks a lot better to me. John Arguello did a nice dissection of the swing yesterday at Cubs Den and a lot of the more knowledgeable posters added their thoughts. I think it's a process but I get where you're coming from.

TC in Mississippi · Dec 21, 2016

beckdawg said:
Rangers DFA'd Tyrell Jenkins. I can imagine the cubs claiming him given he's 24 and has options

Maybe. I saw him pitch here for the Mississippi Braves in 2015 and he'll look good for 2 batters and then he can't find the plate with a search party. This has become a pattern for him too ever since his days in the Cardinals system. if the Cubs see something in him then great but 5 years with the same problem is a long time.

beckdawg · Dec 21, 2016

TC in Mississippi said:
Maybe. I saw him pitch here for the Mississippi Braves in 2015 and he'll look good for 2 batters and then he can't find the plate with a search party. This has become a pattern for him too ever since his days in the Cardinals system. if the Cubs see something in him then great but 5 years with the same problem is a long time.

I don't really think you can be picky here. The cubs have 3 open 40 man slots and he obviously has some talent. He has a 3.64 ERA over 496.2 IP in the minors. I'd like to see better k/9 and bb/9(6.5 and 3.5 respectively) but literally what do you have to lose here? Worst case you DFA him yourself if something better comes along. And as of right now he'd be competing with the likes of Aaron Brooks, Jake Buchanan, Pierce Johnson(is he even still a starter?), Felix Pena(is he a starter?), Rob Zastryzny, and Duane Underwood Jr. as AAA depth. Not exactly murderers row and other than Zastryzny and Underwood there's not a lot of upside there. To me he'd be essentially playing the Matsuz role as a guy that's AAA depth that maybe is useful.

Diehardfan · Dec 21, 2016

TC in Mississippi said:
He was a 6 WAR player in 2015, he didn't need his swing mechanics completely reworked. The issue was that people see that big, athletic body and think that there's power there and frankly maybe there isn't. To me that's where the Cubs made their mistake and combined with the wrist injury he couldn't even get back to his baseline flawed swing. This swing that they're working on looks designed to produce more line drives which could lead to a small increase in power but power isn't the objective anymore. He averaged 5 WAR/season from 2012-2015 and his contract is in line with that production. If he can back to something like .270/.350/.440 with 15 HR he'll be that 5 WAR player again and considering there were only 2 RF over 5 WAR in all of MLB (Mookie Betts & Adam Eaton) you'll take that.

He hit a foul homer in one of the playoff series that landed on the roof of a building on Sheffield. The power is there...with his length and strength, why wouldn't it be? Many believe his swing is broke....I'm certainly no expert so maybe it is...or maybe he just had a real bad season. It happens and it has happened to better hitters than Jason Heyward.

Diehardfan · Dec 21, 2016

Parade_Rain said:
He needs to have a swing plane that produces LD. The current swing plane, even in newer video produces 4-3 GB.

My first impression of Heyward was that he had a real quick bat back in his rookie year. Here is Heywards first HR and one he hit last year. What's your analysis?

I see him standing a but further from the plate in 2016, I see his bat up a little higher but the most notable thing is that just before he swings, he pulls his hands into his body. Wouldn't that cause him to be late through the zone? Little things, but the overall swing hasn't changed that much.

[video=youtube;gQSUKVlNzXM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQSUKVlNzXM[/video]

[video]http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/26663958/v984182283/seachc-heyward-cranks-tworun-homer-to-rightcenter[/video]

Parade_Rain · Dec 21, 2016

TC in Mississippi said:
Maybe but it looks a lot better to me. John Arguello did a nice dissection of the swing yesterday at Cubs Den and a lot of the more knowledgeable posters added their thoughts. I think it's a process but I get where you're coming from.

I don't think the dissection was very good, especially the comments regarding transfer and balance. Heyward still has a two-piece swing.

Parade_Rain · Dec 21, 2016

Diehardfan said:
My first impression of Heyward was that he had a real quick bat back in his rookie year. Here is Heywards first HR and one he hit last year. What's your analysis?

I see him standing a but further from the plate in 2016, I see his bat up a little higher but the most notable thing is that just before he swings, he pulls his hands into his body. Wouldn't that cause him to be late through the zone? Little things, but the overall swing hasn't changed that much.

Pulling the hands in doesn't matter much to me. Ted Williams pulled his hands in to load his scap, but it was also part of a hitch. J's weight shift occurs at the wrong time, which makes his swing two-pieced. He shifts, then swings. Stride is controlled by staying on the back side and only once the swing launches does the weight shift into the front leg, not onto it. Because he rushes onto his front side, it's difficult to get the barrel behind and through the ball on a slight upward plane.

Here's Mauer demonstrating more what I want to see. Of course, if you look at the back foot, it is weightless at a point in the swing. stylistically speaking, some players' rear foot would come forward or lift off the ground, etc.

And I want to be clear here. I know there is a lot more time to work on his swing and they are certainly looking at a mirror, so we will see what other changes they work on. Unlike some guys, he is willing to be coachable.

Diehardfan · Dec 21, 2016

Parade_Rain said:
Pulling the hands in doesn't matter much to me. Ted Williams pulled his hands in to load his scap, but it was also part of a hitch. J's weight shift occurs at the wrong time, which makes his swing two-pieced. He shifts, then swings. Stride is controlled by staying on the back side and only once the swing launches does the weight shift into the front leg, not onto it. Because he rushes onto his front side, it's difficult to get the barrel behind and through the ball on a slight upward plane.

Here's Mauer demonstrating more what I want to see. Of course, if you look at the back foot, it is weightless at a point in the swing. stylistically speaking, some players' rear foot would come forward or lift off the ground, etc.

And I want to be clear here. I know there is a lot more time to work on his swing and they are certainly looking at a mirror, so we will see what other changes they work on. Unlike some guys, he is willing to be coachable.

You obviously know more about this stuff than I ever would. A question...

While what you say makes sense, his swing last year wasn't a whole lot different than it was in 2015 when he hit .290 for St. Louis. Do you think he needs to be making such big changes at this point of his career?

CSF77 · Dec 21, 2016

beckdawg said:
I don't really think you can be picky here. The cubs have 3 open 40 man slots and he obviously has some talent. He has a 3.64 ERA over 496.2 IP in the minors. I'd like to see better k/9 and bb/9(6.5 and 3.5 respectively) but literally what do you have to lose here? Worst case you DFA him yourself if something better comes along. And as of right now he'd be competing with the likes of Aaron Brooks, Jake Buchanan, Pierce Johnson(is he even still a starter?), Felix Pena(is he a starter?), Rob Zastryzny, and Duane Underwood Jr. as AAA depth. Not exactly murderers row and other than Zastryzny and Underwood there's not a lot of upside there. To me he'd be essentially playing the Matsuz role as a guy that's AAA depth that maybe is useful.

AAA looks like Rob Z, Williams, Johnson. Tseng is borderline with his AA results. He will have to compete to move up. Underwood was injured and really did not prove he graduate AA yet.

So I could see those 3 with 2 depth guys starting in Iowa. Underwood and Tseng would be the next wave with Stinnett and Clifton becoming potential fast tracks up to AAA mid season.

So there is a spot open for him.

beckdawg · Dec 21, 2016

CSF77 said:
AAA looks like Rob Z, Williams, Johnson. Tseng is borderline with his AA results. He will have to compete to move up. Underwood was injured and really did not prove he graduate AA yet.

So I could see those 3 with 2 depth guys starting in Iowa. Underwood and Tseng would be the next wave with Stinnett and Clifton becoming potential fast tracks up to AAA mid season.

So there is a spot open for him.

Well regardless it doesn't even necessarily have to be a long term move. You could easily acquire a few guys via trade and make him no longer needed in which case you DFA him with no real loss to you. Additionally, there's some chance he might be viable as reliever if you want to go that route. All I'm saying here is it's literally costing them nothing to try other than a waiver claim. Hell, they might even be able to claim him, stash him for a few months and try to sneak him through waivers at a different time. That's the luxury they have now with only using 37 of their 40 roster slots.

CSF77 · Dec 21, 2016

beckdawg said:
Well regardless it doesn't even necessarily have to be a long term move. You could easily acquire a few guys via trade and make him no longer needed in which case you DFA him with no real loss to you. Additionally, there's some chance he might be viable as reliever if you want to go that route. All I'm saying here is it's literally costing them nothing to try other than a waiver claim. Hell, they might even be able to claim him, stash him for a few months and try to sneak him through waivers at a different time. That's the luxury they have now with only using 37 of their 40 roster slots.

They need the 40 man for injury depth for the most part. If he fits the role.

Jordan Pries
Jake Buchanan
Rob Zastryzny
Pierce Johnson
Ryan Williams

That is the most likely 5 man.

anotheridiot · Dec 22, 2016

Diehardfan said:
My first impression of Heyward was that he had a real quick bat back in his rookie year. Here is Heywards first HR and one he hit last year. What's your analysis?

I see him standing a but further from the plate in 2016, I see his bat up a little higher but the most notable thing is that just before he swings, he pulls his hands into his body. Wouldn't that cause him to be late through the zone? Little things, but the overall swing hasn't changed that much.

He is wide open and a ton further from the plate, getting hit in the face does that. I think he is reminded of getting hit in the face every time he puts his batting helmet on, which is why I think his problems are more mental than physical. The seattle home run in the second video showed quiet hands waiting for the pitch. He got way too active with those hands. His timing trigger was always the bat nub to the chest, and last year he was timing off his jack off the elephant hands. Getting the hands in keeps the barrel of the bat over the plate, hitting the sweet spot on the bat and ends up hitting the ball harder.

fatbeard · Dec 22, 2016

anotheridiot said:
He is wide open and a ton further from the plate, getting hit in the face does that. I think he is reminded of getting hit in the face every time he puts his batting helmet on, which is why I think his problems are more mental than physical. The seattle home run in the second video showed quiet hands waiting for the pitch. He got way too active with those hands. His timing trigger was always the bat nub to the chest, and last year he was timing off his jack off the elephant hands. Getting the hands in keeps the barrel of the bat over the plate, hitting the sweet spot on the bat and ends up hitting the ball harder.

Internet sports psychology FTW!

TC in Mississippi · Dec 23, 2016

It's interesting that despite the Red Sox big splash with Sale, and the desire to anoint them the best in the AL, Cleveland comes in and gets a nice deal done with Edwin Encarnacion at essentially 3/$60 mil with a 4th year option at $20 mil w a $5 mil buyout. This to a player than when the offseason began people were talking 5/$125 and he turned down 4/$80. Encarnacion is a big upgrade from Mike Napoli and with Brantley coming back this should be a much better offense and they were already good. That plus getting two excellent starters back in Sanchez and Carrasco and I'm not at all certain they're not every bit as good or better than Boston.

JP Hochbaum · Dec 23, 2016

Boston will need more middle bullpen help to match Cleveland now. But Boston still has the better offense, which does tend to lose to better pitching.

Would love a Boston Cubs WS though. That might make me just as nervous and anxious to win as this year...

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