Is Jimmy Butler a top-10 player?

**Crystallas** · 01-16-2017, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by clonetrooper264

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That's disgusting

**PolarBear** · 01-16-2017, 06:24 PM

If you look at the Nets and Bulls roster though...Brook Lopez would be the best player after Jimmy.

**Benchmob757** · 01-19-2017, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by houheffna

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I can't say Jimmy is better than Kyrie Irving...not yet anyway...

Kyrie is one of my favorite players, but I think when you take defense into account, Jimmy edges him out slightly.

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**SilenceS** · 01-19-2017, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Benchmob757

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Kyrie is one of my favorite players, but I think when you take defense into account, Jimmy edges him out slightly.

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Kyrie can play defense when he wants to. It may not be lock down like Butler, but Kyrie has also shined on the biggest stage.

**clonetrooper264** · 01-19-2017, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by SilenceS

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Kyrie can play defense when he wants to. It may not be lock down like Butler, but Kyrie has also shined on the biggest stage.

Kyrie is definitely as clutch as they come

**PolarBear** · 04-09-2017, 05:05 PM

Averaging 24 points, 5.5 assists and 6 rebounds with very efficient shooting numbers.

Jimmy Butler's passing and shooting both improved again this season.

Every year he continues to grow and after the year he has had, I think Jimmy has become a top 10 player.

**RamiTheBullsFan** · 04-11-2017, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by PolarBear

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Averaging 24 points, 5.5 assists and 6 rebounds with very efficient shooting numbers.

Jimmy Butler's passing and shooting both improved again this season.

Every year he continues to grow and after the year he has had, I think Jimmy has become a top 10 player.

Well, the top 6 in any given order are indisputable. James, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Leonard, Harden. Davis is definitely better so that's 7. I don't think anyone in their right mind can say they'd rather have Butler than Wall, so that's 8. Or Thomas so that's 9. I understand Antetokounmpo is still young but he's already just too well rounded not to be better than Butler so that's 10 (guards more positions, more rebounds, assists, blocks, and is pretty much as lethal of a scorer).

Then you have too many guys who I'm pretty sure most people would consider better. Chris Paul is not the same explosively quick player he was a few years ago but he's a much better leader and the most fundamentally sound PG in the NBA. Probably the best pure passer in the NBA and makes three's at a high clip and defense is still near the top for his position. Damian Lillard is a much better offensive player than Butler. His defense is a little weak but that O is enough to give him the edge for me. Kyrie Irving is in that same category.

So that's 13 players I'd put ahead of Butler for sure. Then you have the guys in the toss-up category like Lowry, Conley, Thompson, DeRozan, George, Hayward, Aldridge, Griffin, Cousins. I'd throw Butler in somewhere in that group.

**RoseMVP1** · 04-11-2017, 11:29 AM

I'd have Jimmy 9th. I'd take him any day of the week over Thomas.

**Crystallas** · 04-11-2017, 02:13 PM

Thomas has the benefit of playing under one of the better coaches in all of basketball, who coaches on a team with a GM/VP that doesn't micromanage coaching moves and make FO/Player moves to retaliate when they don't get their way.

**ChettheJet** · 05-19-2017, 12:45 PM

This in today's Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...518-story.html

Based on current salary-cap projections, Butler's so-called "super max" would start at $42 million in 2019-20 and be worth $246.4 million overall. In such a deal, which starts at 35 percent of the salary cap and commands 8 percent raises, Butler would make $57.1 million in the final year of the deal in 2023-24 when he would be 34.

As good as Jimmy might be I don't and i doubt the Bulls see him as being worth a 'super max' contract. He is their best player, great all around player on both ends, can step up and win games but he just doesn't dominate as many games as it would take to justify devoting so much of the salary cap too him. He has some awesome games but he isn't awesome most of the time.

That would be the reason I could see them dealing him now, for a top 5 pick and a collection of players who fill the rotation better than most of what the Bulls have on the bench now. More athletic and consistent than Mirotic, Canaan, Grant, Portis, Payne

**Gustavus Adolphus** · 05-19-2017, 01:02 PM

That's an insane amount of money for a guy who has never been out of the second round of the playoffs.

**Gustavus Adolphus** · 05-19-2017, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus

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6 game first round loss.

This was my quote on December 15, in response to Novak asking, "So...championship?"

**Novak** · 05-19-2017, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus

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This was my quote on December 15, in response to Novak asking, "So...championship?"

That's awesome, but did we ever determine if buckets was a top 10 player, or nah?

**Gustavus Adolphus** · 05-19-2017, 02:06 PM

He's nah

**Crystallas** · 05-19-2017, 03:01 PM

He's a 3rd teammer. For those who don't follow, the All-NBA teams are not per position quota, it just more often than not comes off that way. So in theory you could have 15 PFs to make up the first/second/third teams.

I would say that is a semi-fair consensus that Jimmy is NOT top 10, but top 15. /captain obvious, but I'd like to see how the blind homers who shall remain without name, try to claim Jimmy is top 5 after this happened. *cough* okay, top 5 maybe as a strict two-way player, we know, we know.

**Raskolnikov** · 05-20-2017, 07:33 PM

Well, top 15 is solidly in the conversation and in the vicinity of the elite of the elite.

If you are of a certain age and in that category above guys like Heyward and George than only about 30% of teams even have one of you. You are worth building around and it's foolish to think a first round pick or even the #1 overall pick would be as good as him.

**RamiTheBullsFan** · 05-21-2017, 03:39 PM

I'd put him as top 5 in his position. LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Antetokounmpo are better. But it's basically a wash between him or PG13. And he's better than Hayward and Melo.

**Raskolnikov** · 05-21-2017, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

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I'd put him as top 5 in his position. LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Antetokounmpo are better. But it's basically a wash between him or PG13. And he's better than Hayward and Melo.

Yeah, but he is top 2 at shooting guard.

**MC-W7 Piggybacker** · 05-27-2017, 02:40 PM

Jimmy > PG13 > Hayward

**PolarBear** · 05-29-2017, 06:10 AM

If you want to be a contender you gotta have 1 of 2 things -

1. Lebron James

2. 2 or 3 top 20 players depending on your other pieces.

If Curry and Durant stay in Golden State and CP3 doesn't go to San Antonio, there will be a Cavs vs Warriors 4.0 next year.

Jimmy is a top 15 guy. The Bulls would need to land a top 10 player and build a heck of a team to even sniff those two teams in the coming years.

**The Hawk** · 05-29-2017, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by PolarBear

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If you want to be a contender you gotta have 1 of 2 things -

1. Lebron James

2. 2 or 3 top 20 players depending on your other pieces.

If Curry and Durant stay in Golden State and CP3 doesn't go to San Antonio, there will be a Cavs vs Warriors 4.0 next year.

Jimmy is a top 15 guy. The Bulls would need to land a top 10 player and build a heck of a team to even sniff those two teams in the coming years.

This is kind of the reason why the NBA is becoming uninteresting to me. What it has become a league in which the top stars are free to go wherever they want to in order to form a super team with other stars(see Golden State) (see Miami a few years ago) (see Cleveland now). And then you have teams deliberately tanking in order to try and get a star out of the lottery. ANd then there is the majority of the teams playing pretty meaningless games against each other knowing that they have no chance at a championship. The Bulls are in this category.

In a way, the Bulls got unlucky with Rose getting hurt but then lucked out with Butler becoming a legitimate star but it wasn't enough. They had a great coach in Thibs but fucked that up also. So now, they are pretty well fucked for the future. And part of it is the free agent and draft system itself.

**Raskolnikov** · 05-29-2017, 02:50 PM

I'm not sure the Cavs can hold it together forever. The end for Lebron is coming soon, when he can carry a team. An injury will occur eventually and a new team will represent the East.

Paul to the Spurs, or a combination of George/Paul to one of the L.A. teams, or even Wade/Lebron jumping in. Wade has 20 million option with us, but I don't think its totally out of the question he opts out and goes to a juggaurnaut where he is 3rd or 4th fiddle.

Bosh is out there too.

If Golden State were to actually 'annaialate" these Cavs....then I think everyone will have to look at building 1 or 2 other super teams if they want to compete.

The fact we have Jimmy locked up makes us a dark horse in all of this. If Clippers lose Paul they may rebuild, and then Jordan would be available.

The thing I will say about Jordan is he becomes more valuable if the hack-a- strategy is abolished. His efficiency analytics would then be very high, higher than a good 3-point shooter.

Intentional fouls of any kind should be abolished with one shot and the ball. Ref discretion. Flopping should be 2 shots and the ball. don't put up with it. Reviewed flopping by the league should be one game suspensions. If you want guys to play with integrity you have to be consistent and dictate what is an acceptable competitive spirit.

Hayward to Chicago would solve our SF problem. Jimmy-Hayward-Portis-Lopez/Lavreunix/Felicio and just keep drafting PG's until we hit.

Blowing it up and trading Jimmy really doesn't get us anywhere except holding draft picks and back to square zero searching for a Jimmy type that could attract FA's.