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  1. #21
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    DeMarcus Cousins is the answer to a question a winning basketball team will never ask. He is in his 7 season and he has been on a team that won 30 games once, (most likely twice after this season) His teams have never been within 10 games of 500. The NBA is the one sport where one player can win games by them self. He can't. His stats are hollow.

    Example A:
    Chris Bosh, without James he is a ~22ppg and 10rpg guy on a team that is under 500. With James he is a 17/7 guy.

    Example B:
    Kevin Love without James 23/12. With James 17/10

    It is easier to put up good numbers on bad teams when you lose. When teams are down by 15 the game is played with less intensity. Teams winning by 15 don't crash the boards and guards on the losing team get out and try to run. Cousins gets a lot of uncontested rebounds in bad games. Moreover, he does not move his feet well so he won't ever be a good pick and roll defender. He is not a good jump shooter so pairing him with Butler is not going to help the Bulls space the floor. Robin Lopez has been a statistically better jump shooter.

    Cousins is not going to help the Bulls. What he does is no longer as valued as it was 30 years ago. Post play is getting legislated out of the NBA. Piick and roll defense is more important than rim protection. Rebounding is not as important as it used to be.

    If Cousins and Butler are the answer the question is mediocre basketball that peaks at ~50 wins and a second round loss (best case scenario).

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieBear View Post
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    it makes sense to me.. kill em..

    bulls probably aint competing for the next decade as is.... its all cavs, warriors, spurs, raptors for the next 5-6.. then the greek and porzingis taking ova...

    smart is sitting behind thomas forever..
    vucevic and mario both on the bench.. butler may give ibaka a reason to return to orlando

    im gambling on young talent improving (smart, valentine, hezonja, sabonis.. and vucevic is still 26-27?? avg 18-19 in prior years).. perhaps adding hayward in the offseason.. unload then let the bulls tank the rest of the year.. so 3 1sts with two of them being possible lottery picks..
    vucevic is averaging 28 minuts a game and his minutes are not on the decline even though he is not starting. I don't think he has a ton of value, and Butler is worth more than what the Magic are giving up. I just don't know why the Magic would be making moves that give up picks. The Magic should be looking to fire sale themselves. They may think they are close and want to move picks, I just don't know why they would. That trade would put the Magic where the Bulls are now. Maybe the Magic think 500 ball is a good decision. I can see some teams doing it for ticket sales.

    Smart is stuck behind a better player, but why would the Celtics want to move pieces for a one shot deal like Wade. The Celtics would probably know they want to make moves that help them for 3 seasons or so. They have to know they probably won't win it this season, but a 3 season window helps them buy time to possibly find another player or allow for the Warriors or Cavs to take a step back (injuries/age). If I am the Celtics I would rather move those players for a long term contract. The Celtics won't have enough with tihis trade to offer a max deal and if they keep wade they will have no cap space at all.

    Lastly, lottery pick that is more than likely 9+ is not all that great.

  4. #23
    Retired Bandwagon Mod clonetrooper264's Avatar
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    Year 3 Kevin Love with Lebron is 21/11 though so go figure.
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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonetrooper264 View Post
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    Year 3 Kevin Love with Lebron is 21/11 though so go figure.
    Love's stats with Cle include this half a season. There are other examples too of the exact same thing. They are just the two most easy to point too. Antoine Walker was a 20 PPG man. Went to Mia won a ring and dropped significantly. Even a casual observer of the NBA should have seen things like this.

    Kevin Martian. @0PPG guy in Sac and Hou. Went to OCK 14PPG. Went to Min 20PPG.

  6. #25
    Who are the brain police? Enasic's Avatar
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    I'm not nearly as high on Cousins as a lot of other people are, but he would certainly help the Bulls. The main reasons I'm not overly high on him is because he's mentally unstable, isn't a true leader, and also not very liked by the refs. In the playoffs, when one call can make or break a series, I wouldn't bet on Cousins getting the benefit of the doubt. I could foresee a complete meltdown by Cousins thereafter as well. I think his talent is too big to deny, but he would need the perfect coach in place (not Fred), and the right cast of veterans. He still has to learn how to win in this league and what's required out of him from a leadership standpoint.

    Either way, the Bulls don't have nearly the pieces required to get him. Unless they trade Jimmy for him....which they won't.

  7. #26
    Retired Bandwagon Mod clonetrooper264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czman View Post
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    Love's stats with Cle include this half a season. There are other examples too of the exact same thing. They are just the two most easy to point too. Antoine Walker was a 20 PPG man. Went to Mia won a ring and dropped significantly. Even a casual observer of the NBA should have seen things like this.

    Kevin Martian. @0PPG guy in Sac and Hou. Went to OCK 14PPG. Went to Min 20PPG.
    Not really refuting anything, just noting Love's improvement from when he started. Your point definitely holds true.
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  8. #27
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    Cousins is a dead end. Quality FAs anywhere near their prime have no reason to come to Chicago.

    Gar-Pax have no strategy, no tactics, and are just dopes working merely collecting as many paychecks as they can before the inevitable shit-canning.

    Trades are a waste of breath also, because these fools will not embrace a true rebuild and they will only trade one problem/deficiency for another.

    This team is absolutely fucked for the next couple years, and the several years after that when the new FO require years to reset the lineup.

    The unwillingness to deal Gasol or Taj last season, and subsequently bringing in old, broken pieces in RR and DW have cemented the fact that this team is at least 5 years away (at best) from fielding a playoff-competitive squad.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by czman View Post
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    vucevic is averaging 28 minuts a game and his minutes are not on the decline even though he is not starting. I don't think he has a ton of value, and Butler is worth more than what the Magic are giving up. I just don't know why the Magic would be making moves that give up picks. The Magic should be looking to fire sale themselves. They may think they are close and want to move picks, I just don't know why they would. That trade would put the Magic where the Bulls are now. Maybe the Magic think 500 ball is a good decision. I can see some teams doing it for ticket sales.

    Smart is stuck behind a better player, but why would the Celtics want to move pieces for a one shot deal like Wade. The Celtics would probably know they want to make moves that help them for 3 seasons or so. They have to know they probably won't win it this season, but a 3 season window helps them buy time to possibly find another player or allow for the Warriors or Cavs to take a step back (injuries/age). If I am the Celtics I would rather move those players for a long term contract. The Celtics won't have enough with tihis trade to offer a max deal and if they keep wade they will have no cap space at all.

    Lastly, lottery pick that is more than likely 9+ is not all that great.
    but jimmy is top 10 or near it... magic would want him... they have a history of getting players... plus they got other young pieces... butler > fournier... however fournier is still pretty valuable and can be used to acquire picks/players.. or just play him at sf full time.. they would have a decent young squad around jimmy..

    PG 22 Payton 12 ppg 6 assists
    SG 27 Butler 24 ppg
    SF 24 Fournier 17 ppg
    PF 21 Aaron Gordon 11 ppg 5 reb
    C 24 Biyombo 6 ppg 8 reb or Slide 27 Ibaka to C w 15 ppg 7 reb..

    plus its my trades.. so they always work out for the best for everyone..

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonetrooper264 View Post
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    Wade is living out why he didn't sign with us in 2010
    This is exactly right. His own medicine. Too bad it's hurting us in the process to make our point about being a loyal organization(in the modern era).

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallas View Post
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    This is exactly right. His own medicine. Too bad it's hurting us in the process to make our point about being a loyal organization(in the modern era).
    I didnt post it, but read an article on CBS saying Jimmy Butler really recruited him to come to Chicago. He said his future was based on Jimmy because he was the reason he came there.
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  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    I didnt post it, but read an article on CBS saying Jimmy Butler really recruited him to come to Chicago. He said his future was based on Jimmy because he was the reason he came there.
    It doesn't matter because from Wade's POV, it's all double dipping on details anyways. He can claim anyone recruited him to whatever team. In the end, it's all his decision and he knows this business. He also is in a better situation in Chicago than he would have been in Miami THIS season. He knows all that. Losing Jimmy would make it a worse situation.

    The fact of the matter is, Wade should have also been recruiting, not just Jimmy. And whoever recruited Rondo should get merciless kicks to the grapes until they fall off the vine.

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  14. #32
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    Kings beat Cavs in the Cavs house. Cousins goes for 28, 10, and 9. Not a winner. He is like Anthony Davis and could never be a number 1 on a real team.

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  15. #33
    Ignore Urblock pm's Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Remember when the Bulls won 4-0 over Miami in the regular season, but then lost 4-1 in the conference finals?

    Congrats Boogie.

  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    Remember when the Bulls won 4-0 over Miami in the regular season, but then lost 4-1 in the conference finals?

    Congrats Boogie.
    No, what year was that? Did they have any top 10 players that couldnt help another team in the league?
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  17. #35
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    In Cousins defense, he has always had shit around him and is on the worst run team in the league

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  19. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseMVP1 View Post
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    In Cousins defense, he has always had shit around him and is on the worst run team in the league
    Winning makes a lot of peoples attitudes change.
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  20. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    Kings beat Cavs in the Cavs house. Cousins goes for 28, 10, and 9. Not a winner. He is like Anthony Davis and could never be a number 1 on a real team.

    Because winning a regular season game is the same as winning a playoff series. Call me when Cousins is the best player on a team that wins a playoffs series.

    Do you ride the short bus to trump university? You are basketball retarded.

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  22. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    No, what year was that? Did they have any top 10 players that couldnt help another team in the league?
    James in his 3rd year took Eric Snow, Flip Murray, Larry Hughes, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and Drew Gooden to the finals.

    The Kings last season were 16 games under 500 in Cousins 6th full season with Rudy Gay, Rajon Rondo, Darren Collison, Omri Casspi, and Marco Belinelli. That is not terrible supporting cast. There are players there who have proven they can be decent/significant pieces on deep playoff teams.

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  24. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonetrooper264 View Post
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    Not really refuting anything, just noting Love's improvement from when he started. Your point definitely holds true.
    Love is having a interesting year. He is taking more 3 pointers per minutes played then anytime in his career. He is also taking a lot of shots per minute. Cleveland only really is getting contributions from 3 guys. I have not been watching the team, but statistically, it looks like only Lebron, Irving, and Love are taking all of the shots. Those 3 are taking 52.8 shots a game and the team is taking 85.5. That only leaves 32 shots for the rest of the team.

    Those 3 are also only playing 105 minutes a game of the normal 240. So in the other 135 minutes the other players play they take 32 shots, or a shot ever ~4:15 of playing time. Obliviously the game time between shots depends on how many players outside the "big 3" are on the court. Still that just seems like the Problems that the Heat had in the begging when they were not able to win championships. Something seems wrong in Cle.

  25. #40
    Retired Bandwagon Mod clonetrooper264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czman View Post
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    Love is having a interesting year. He is taking more 3 pointers per minutes played then anytime in his career. He is also taking a lot of shots per minute. Cleveland only really is getting contributions from 3 guys. I have not been watching the team, but statistically, it looks like only Lebron, Irving, and Love are taking all of the shots. Those 3 are taking 52.8 shots a game and the team is taking 85.5. That only leaves 32 shots for the rest of the team.

    Those 3 are also only playing 105 minutes a game of the normal 240. So in the other 135 minutes the other players play they take 32 shots, or a shot ever ~4:15 of playing time. Obliviously the game time between shots depends on how many players outside the "big 3" are on the court. Still that just seems like the Problems that the Heat had in the begging when they were not able to win championships. Something seems wrong in Cle.
    Well according to Lebron, they lack a playmaker lol. I believe the remainder of their rotation consists of Tristan Thompson, Korver, Shumpert, Channing Frye, JR Smith when he's healthy again, and that's about it. It's not hard to imagine that group only taking 32 shots. Lebron is averaging nearly 40 minutes per game this year I think. Outside of the big 3 they don't have much going on.

    Though compared the Cavs teams the last couple years, I'm not sure what else has really changed other than Mozgov and Dellavedova. Not like those players would account for more offense on this team. So while Kevin Love's improvement may be in part to the Cavs relying on their big 3, I'd say he's doing better in that role regardless.
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