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  1. #1
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    Default Keep Jimmy Butler. Revamp management!

    There is a popular game of line drawing fans play when it comes to Jimmy Butler. First the debate was whether to give Jimmy 12 million a year. Make him earn it we said. Now he is actually the rarest of superstars (that's right, superstar) A two way, 27 year old closer who is STILL improving with a cap friendly contract. If JB was playing for anyone else, we would kill to have him. JB is turning into basketball Jay Cutler here. Now the popular saying is you cant win a championship with JB is your best player. Well, I counter that in a vacuum it is easier to build a championship around JB than 2 time MVP Stephen Curry. Truth is we never thought JB would be THIS good so who are we to determine Butler's ceiling.

    One more thing, LBJ is not the unbeatable monolith we make him out to be. The only thing the Bulls proved is they could not beat Miami with Keith Bogans and Ronnie Brewer at 2 guard. Rose was one of the best closers in the league but it wasnt enough. Health derailed the Bulls more than anything. Rose was a Hall of Fame talent who frankly retains more game than we like to admit.

    It is management who created the headache Butler has become. Who pitted Rose and Butler against each other unneccesarily. Who has undermined every coach the Bulls have had. Who cant make the moves to build a champion. Gar/Pax makes Jerry Krause look like Red Auerbach. In fact, if Krause replaced Gar/Pax right now I wouldnt be mad.

    In closing, you show me a coach killer, I show you bad management.

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  4. #2
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    I totally agree with you. Jimmy needs to stay. I like to look at the Rockets and think that the Bulls should be built like that team. Jimmy should be taking up the ball (much like Harden) and when the defense collapses on him, he can kick it out to the perimeter shooters.

    However, it is Gar/Pax who couldn't make up their minds and ended up just adding different pieces that don't fit together at all! We have one of the 10 best players in the league and it's not too late to build around him. We just need the FO to stick to one plan!

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    Who are the brain police? Enasic's Avatar
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    Yeah, all the Bulls have to do is fire Garpax this off-season, then hire someone who can turn this colossal mess, into a championship contender within 2 years before Jimmy opts out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjswan232482 View Post
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    There is a popular game of line drawing fans play when it comes to Jimmy Butler. First the debate was whether to give Jimmy 12 million a year. Make him earn it we said. Now he is actually the rarest of superstars (that's right, superstar) A two way, 27 year old closer who is STILL improving with a cap friendly contract. If JB was playing for anyone else, we would kill to have him. JB is turning into basketball Jay Cutler here. Now the popular saying is you cant win a championship with JB is your best player. Well, I counter that in a vacuum it is easier to build a championship around JB than 2 time MVP Stephen Curry. Truth is we never thought JB would be THIS good so who are we to determine Butler's ceiling.

    One more thing, LBJ is not the unbeatable monolith we make him out to be. The only thing the Bulls proved is they could not beat Miami with Keith Bogans and Ronnie Brewer at 2 guard. Rose was one of the best closers in the league but it wasnt enough. Health derailed the Bulls more than anything. Rose was a Hall of Fame talent who frankly retains more game than we like to admit.

    It is management who created the headache Butler has become. Who pitted Rose and Butler against each other unneccesarily. Who has undermined every coach the Bulls have had. Who cant make the moves to build a champion. Gar/Pax makes Jerry Krause look like Red Auerbach. In fact, if Krause replaced Gar/Pax right now I wouldnt be mad.

    In closing, you show me a coach killer, I show you bad management.
    Please be trolling, closer? Superstar? A lot of people have different ideas of superstars. Like Scoot is tougher on it then me, but fuck me, no. Stop with the non sense. Butler isnt the leader of any kind of championship team. It may be your FO that sucks, but Butler is certainly no superstar.
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    Lets see. 25/6/5 a game, can close and defend the other teams best player. That the hard stuff. Sorry to break the new to you, but in a vacuum he qualifies. He can definitely be a Pippen and that is a start. You just dont trade that in the hope the other good will be as good. Get a coach and gm first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjswan232482 View Post
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    Lets see. 25/6/5 a game, can close and defend the other teams best player. That the hard stuff. Sorry to break the new to you, but in a vacuum he qualifies. He can definitely be a Pippen and that is a start. You just dont trade that in the hope the other good will be as good. Get a coach and gm first.
    No, he doesnt. Unless, you are saying 20 freaking players in the league are superstars. He doesnt. Take off the blinders. By the time a new coach and gm come in, he will be out the door.
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    See here's the thing: if you go back to last year, the Bulls have already empowered Jimmy. Now we have this year, and it is that much more. When you bring in that new coach, whoever it is, if it's another passive voice then I see no way that Jimmy wouldn't cut his nuts off like he's done to Fred. If you bring in the strong voice, just using this example - Scott Skiles, I can see some clashing going on.

    I have no problem getting a new FO. I have no problem getting a new coaching staff. But the not-so-humble-anymore kid from Texas has got to go as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjswan232482 View Post
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    Lets see. 25/6/5 a game, can close and defend the other teams best player. That the hard stuff. Sorry to break the new to you, but in a vacuum he qualifies. He can definitely be a Pippen and that is a start. You just dont trade that in the hope the other good will be as good. Get a coach and gm first.
    Pippen was a #2. If you think he can play like a Pippen, then you have to get him to stop acting like a Jordan.

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    If you are a top 20 player, you are an All Star and probably the No.1 option on your team. He is an Olympic gold medalist, 3 time All Star and All-Defensive caliber player. He has more 50 points than anyone not named Jordan on the Bulls. Truth is there may not be more than 10 better all around players. Yes, he is a diva. But dont act like he's just another guy we can trade just .75 on the dollar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjswan232482 View Post
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    If you are a top 20 player, you are an All Star and probably the No.1 option on your team. He is an Olympic gold medalist, 3 time All Star and All-Defensive caliber player. He has more 50 points than anyone not named Jordan on the Bulls. Truth is there may not be more than 10 better all around players. Yes, he is a diva. But dont act like he's just another guy we can trade just .75 on the dollar.
    The problem is the 10 best player in the league doesn't usually lead his team to a championship. This team is not good and Butler is not going to play at this level for the next 5+ years. The Bulls are not one realistic move away from contending. Sometimes you have to worse to get better.

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    Yes, revamp the entire organization. That is correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjswan232482 View Post
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    If you are a top 20 player, you are an All Star and probably the No.1 option on your team. He is an Olympic gold medalist, 3 time All Star and All-Defensive caliber player. He has more 50 points than anyone not named Jordan on the Bulls. Truth is there may not be more than 10 better all around players. Yes, he is a diva. But dont act like he's just another guy we can trade just .75 on the dollar.
    The stuff in the bold is all 'who cares' stuff. Let's not pretend that when voting for the all-star team is given to fans who can text their votes, or the players who vote for guys like Tony Allen mean anything. Of course Jimmy is the number one option on the team, the team sucks. 50 points games? Again, who cares - the team sucks.

    Who is acting like he's just another guy that can be traded?

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    Quote Originally Posted by czman View Post
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    The problem is the 10 best player in the league doesn't usually lead his team to a championship. This team is not good and Butler is not going to play at this level for the next 5+ years. The Bulls are not one realistic move away from contending. Sometimes you have to worse to get better.

    You need better management. This management doesn't deserve another rebuild. Who is to say JB can't play at a high level at 32? It is not like we can count on attracting free agents either.

  18. #14
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    The problem is, even if you beat LeBron, you aren't beating the Warriors. They would need 2 more substantial pieces to compete with them even if they beat lebron.

    I said it in another thread, but I'd call the Celtics and try to get both Brooklyn picks. Hopefully, since they'll both be top 3, you can get two stars and by the time the Warriors are old you'll be able to compete.

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    As good of a player Butler is, if your goal as an organization is to win a championship, it is hard to imagine a scenario where Butler doesn't ultimately land somewhere else. As someone else already said in this thread, if your goal is to have him be your "Pippen" then you need him to stop acting like a Jordan.

    It's time to blow it up. Trade everyone. Fire Forman and hopefully Paxson too (lol as if). Firing Hoiberg only 2 years into his idiotically enormous contract is probably too much to ask for. But get rid of everybody. It is better to end up as bad as Philly was for the last few years and get young players through the draft than it is to stay stuck in basketball hell. With this core group of players, .500 basketball is about as good as it will get for the next several years. Let Wade walk in the offseason and trade Butler for high picks and rookie contracts.

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    Hold up...y'all are really trying to trade away the Bulls best player, signed to a reasonable multi-year contract, because he's a cancer on a team BUILT ON DYSFUNCTION?

    A player who's current roster includes a crybaby (Wade), a headcase (Rondo) and the Ghost of Brooke Past?

    You REALLY ready for the McDermott era Bulls? Zipser showed you that much?

    The last time the Bulls tried to tank and rebuild through draft picks, we got Tyson Chandler and Cheezborger Cheezborger Cheezborger Curry.
    We had to live thru the joy that is Marcus Fizer.
    Ben Gordon for 3....Ben Gordon blows a defensive assignment....BEN GORDON FOR THREE!!!
    Rip Hamilton isn't starting because he's trying to set up dinner plans...back to you Norm!

    That's what y'all really want?

    I mean...if we are going to go there...let's go ALL the way there and not eff around.

    The kid stays in the picture.

    /scene

  21. #17
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    Maybe by waiting for the many years it'll take to rebuild through draft picks we can wait out this era of superteams we'll never beat lol
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  22. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonetrooper264 View Post
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    Maybe by waiting for the many years it'll take to rebuild through draft picks we can wait out this era of superteams we'll never beat lol
    Nope, the Bulls are going to beat all of them with Butler and I am positive da Bulls are going sign the biggest free agents. The most glorious free agents. Its going to be a super super team of free agents.
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  23. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjswan232482 View Post
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    If you are a top 20 player, you are an All Star and probably the No.1 option on your team. He is an Olympic gold medalist, 3 time All Star and All-Defensive caliber player. He has more 50 points than anyone not named Jordan on the Bulls. Truth is there may not be more than 10 better all around players. Yes, he is a diva. But dont act like he's just another guy we can trade just .75 on the dollar.
    Yeah. This is just another example of definition. Like what is a "superstar"? It all depends on an individuals view of things.
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  24. #20
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    New management and keeping Butler would be my choice. Paxson and Forman could actually make the right trades, sign the FAs that would get the team to the top of the East but it's more likely they won't.

    Who to hire I don't know for sure, I don't want some 75 year old guy no matter how much he won and has his old school way of doing things. I don't really like assistants to successful GMs because you don't know if they're 'YES' men who weren't really key movers. The one NBA guy I've always liked as a player and a coach was Paul Westphal. Just an enthusiastic personality, seemed to know how to work with his teammates and players. I think he would have a plan and find the players to fit it.


    The one short coming of the current management that came to me watching some college highlights was drafting too many players who were big parts of winning programs. Like Duke, NC, Kansas, Syracuse, Michigan etc. It's not that having some players like that is a bad idea but having too many of them is a problem. These kinds of players seem to fit a system and coach but when they have to change systems, freelance and expand their games in the NBA they don't have it in them. And I'm pretty tired of European players, very few seem to adapt to the NBA game at least in Chicago. No more 6, 6-2 shooting guards who are streak shooters and can't handle the ball to backup at the point. They give up more points defending 6-6 2 guards than they could ever score. And if Tyrus Thomas wasn't enough evidence to STOP drafting athletes and draft basketball players some people will never learn.

    Especially with late first round and second round picks I'd like to see them look at players from small schools, that don't win but that have legit size 6-7, 6-10 wing players who look like they could do more than their team allowed or 7 footers who could hit the weights and be solid players. I think there are a lot of players at small schools with ability who are held back by bad coaches who are using somebody's system and don't recognize the talents and skills their players have that don't fit what they're being asked to do.

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