Interesting Jonathan Allen article

WindyCity

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jtreal3 said:
That would be my pick at 3
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I am not sure he has the athletic upside.

I think he is going to be a hell of an NFL player, but if he is not going to be Fletcher Cox and is going to be more of a run stuffer than can you take him at 3?
 
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I would be happy with Allen, maybe not jump out of my chair thrilled, but he would be rock solid.


The dude is a heavy weight ass kicker and we can always use those guys.
 

rawdawg

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Two guys I really pay attention to when they speak/write are Stephen White when it comes to D linemen and Matt Bowen when it comes to DBs. Both guys know their stuff.

The Allen/Donald comparison is good in the sense that both of these guys were extremely productive players that played all over the line in college that had questions about their limitations. Donald with the height/weight issue. Allen with the athleticism questions. I know the NFL talent is better than college overall. But it isn't so much better that a guy completely dominating at a Power 5 in college can't come into the NFL and at least be a solid player. Maybe Allen won't be as good as Donald because he's not that type of athlete. But no reason to think that he won't be one of the top 10-15 DTs in the league for a long time.
 
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rawdawg said:
Two guys I really pay attention to when they speak/write are Stephen White when it comes to D linemen and Matt Bowen when it comes to DBs. Both guys know their stuff.

The Allen/Donald comparison is good in the sense that both of these guys were extremely productive players that played all over the line in college that had questions about their limitations. Donald with the height/weight issue. Allen with the athleticism questions. I know the NFL talent is better than college overall. But it isn't so much better that a guy completely dominating at a Power 5 in college can't come into the NFL and at least be a solid player. Maybe Allen won't be as good as Donald because he's not that type of athlete. But no reason to think that he won't be one of the top 10-15 DTs in the league for a long time.
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I don't know if a top 10-15 DT is worth the 3rd pick
 
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If he could be 75% if what Aaron Donald is then the 3rd pick is totally reasonable.
 

rawdawg

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WindyCity said:
I don't know if a top 10-15 DT is worth the 3rd pick
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Depends on how you look at it.

JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Geno Atkins, Ndamakoung Suh, Kawaan Short, Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Fletcher Cox, Gerald McCoy. If I told you Jon Allen would slot in right after/among that group, would you be OK with the 3rd overall pick on him? I don't think you can get any other player at 3 that winds up in that class of players at their position with as much certainty.
 

Luke

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yep, and I spaced on whites name. Just looking at JA and Leonard Williams combine numbers and JA's are as good or better albeit 2 inches shorter and 15 pounds lighter which isn't the best apples to apples I know..

JA

40 5.00
vert 30.0
broad 108
3cone 7.49
shuttle 4.50

LW

40 4.97
vert 29.5
broad 106
3cone 7.59
shuttle 4.53
 
-Cago34-

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Luke said:
yep, and I spaced on whites name. Just looking at JA and Leonard Williams combine numbers and JA's are as good or better albeit 2 inches shorter and 15 pounds lighter which isn't the best apples to apples I know..

JA

40 5.00
vert 30.0
broad 108
3cone 7.49
shuttle 4.50

LW

40 4.97
vert 29.5
broad 106
3cone 7.59
shuttle 4.53
Click to expand...

I was gonna bring up Leonard Williams but I didn't want the conversation to dilute, but I definitely agree.
 

Luke

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almost identical numbers across the board.
 

rawdawg

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-Cago34- said:
I was gonna bring up Leonard Williams but I didn't want the conversation to dilute, but I definitely agree.
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Ha. I was going to add to my post that he'd basically be in Leonard Williams territory in the top 10-15 DTs, and he went 6, which seemed to most as a slight fall from projected top 3 pick.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Luke

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rawdawg said:
Ha. I was going to add to my post that he'd basically be in Leonard Williams territory in the top 10-15 DTs, and he went 6, which seemed to most as a slight fall from projected top 3 pick.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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but of course he had 2 QB's and a highly rated edge rusher and WR selected ahead of him so I would say that its a wash.
 
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rawdawg said:
Depends on how you look at it.

JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Geno Atkins, Ndamakoung Suh, Kawaan Short, Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Fletcher Cox, Gerald McCoy. If I told you Jon Allen would slot in right after/among that group, would you be OK with the 3rd overall pick on him? I don't think you can get any other player at 3 that winds up in that class of players at their position with as much certainty.
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Yes, but we are getting close to the cut off.
 
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-Cago34- said:
I was gonna bring up Leonard Williams but I didn't want the conversation to dilute, but I definitely agree.
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The one difference is length. Williams is 6'5" with 34.5" arms and Allen is 6'2.5" with 33.5" arms.

But athletically Allen is not that far off from guys like Williams, Short, Cox was a little better but in the same ball park.
 

Luke

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rawdawg said:
Depends on how you look at it.

JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Geno Atkins, Ndamakoung Suh, Kawaan Short, Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Fletcher Cox, Gerald McCoy. If I told you Jon Allen would slot in right after/among that group, would you be OK with the 3rd overall pick on him? I don't think you can get any other player at 3 that winds up in that class of players at their position with as much certainty.
Click to expand...

This statement defines why GM's select elite graded players over reaching for late first round QB's too early. The higher the grade, the more confident a team feels that a player can likely reach a pro bowl level. When a QB has several questions associated with him, a team will obviously grade him lower and have far less confidence of his success. As dawg points out above, JA has a pretty good chance of being in the same class of the players he mentioned because of his grade, same goes for Adams and the elite top safeties. As far as the QB's go, they are probably just as likely to end up like Gabbert, Weeden, Manuel, RG3 or even Bridgewater as opposed to a Tannehil or Dalton let alone a star. NFL GM's play a real life risk/reward game, not the FFL life that fans can afford to play and be wrong about.
 
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