Brady, Rodgers and Manning have given us a false premise.

remydat

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No. Brady and Rodgers are way better than all of those QBs that failed. In no form, way or shape is their success in the NFL due to circumstances. On the Super Bowl side I would say that if Brady wasn't on New England all these years, he would not have seen so many Super Bowls, that is Belichick as well. By the way, Aaron Rodgers has been in the same amount of Super Bowls as the Bears since he joined the NFL.

Not sure how you can say that when Rodgers spent 3 years learning the same system and Brady spent a year on the bench and had BB for his entire career.

If Brady or Rodgers were selected by the Bears then I don't think they turn out the way they did. The QBs they are is partly attributed to going to two well run franchises IMO.
 

DaaBears

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Not sure how you can say that when Rodgers spent 3 years learning the same system and Brady spent a year on the bench and had BB for his entire career.

If Brady or Rodgers were selected by the Bears then I don't think they turn out the way they did. The QBs thry are is 0artly attributed to going to two well run franchises IMO.

I will actually go as far as to say that if Rodgers was drafted by the Bears, he would have went to multiple Super Bowls and not just one like he did on the Packers. Could you imagine our team with the defense that we had between 2005 and 2012 with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback instead of Grossman, Orton, Cutler and others? Without Rodgers we had 2 teams that were totally dominant with little to no offense.
 

MrOuija

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I think it's easy to forget that GB hasn't exactly lavished weapons, genius OCs, or fantastic defenses on Rodgers. He's just that good. The Packers when he joined them were no more of an ideal situation than anywhere else really. We had finally turned the corner on them only to have Rodgers blow the whole building apart.
 

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Rodgers is indeed great, but people need to remember that the one SB he did get the GB D was playing some fantastic ball too. They had 3 pick 6's in the 2010 playoffs and were a HUGE reason they won the SB that year too. That's not taking anything away from him cause they probably would not have won it without him as well.
 

remydat

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I will actually go as far as to say that if Rodgers was drafted by the Bears, he would have went to multiple Super Bowls and not just one like he did on the Packers. Could you imagine our team with the defense that we had between 2005 and 2012 with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback instead of Grossman, Orton, Cutler and others? Without Rodgers we had 2 teams that were totally dominant with little to no offense.

I disagree. He would have been thrown in the fire without any proper coaching and probably had people calling him a bum. He had to clean up his throwing motion and part of the reason he could do that is because GB did have to rush him because they had Favre.

You are acting like he was a ready made prospect when the reason he fell is because people realized elements of his game needed to be refined and I don't think they get refined here in Chicago.
 

remydat

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I think it's easy to forget that GB hasn't exactly lavished weapons, genius OCs, or fantastic defenses on Rodgers. He's just that good. The Packers when he joined them were no more of an ideal situation than anywhere else really. We had finally turned the corner on them only to have Rodgers blow the whole building apart.

They were ideal because he could sit and clean up his mechanics. And he has been playing in the same system since a rookie.

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/can-quarterbacks-mechanics-be-altered

And I think you guys are underselling McCarthy and Clements short. They spent a lot of time as the above notes changing Rodgers mechanics which as noted improved his deep ball accuracy, power and release.

His mechanics are flawless and he did not enter the league that way nor do I think he would have perfected it as quickly if he had to play from day 1 rather than being able to practice it over and over again for 3 years.
 

bearmick

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I will actually go as far as to say that if Rodgers was drafted by the Bears, he would have went to multiple Super Bowls and not just one like he did on the Packers. Could you imagine our team with the defense that we had between 2005 and 2012 with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback instead of Grossman, Orton, Cutler and others? Without Rodgers we had 2 teams that were totally dominant with little to no offense.

I think it's easy to forget that GB hasn't exactly lavished weapons, genius OCs, or fantastic defenses on Rodgers. He's just that good. The Packers when he joined them were no more of an ideal situation than anywhere else really. We had finally turned the corner on them only to have Rodgers blow the whole building apart.

You guys better hope Guano doesn't log on anytime soon or there will be a serious rant coming your way (consisting of ~35% English and 65% emojis).
 

MrOuija

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They were ideal because he could sit and clean up his mechanics. And he has been playing in the same system since a rookie.

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/can-quarterbacks-mechanics-be-altered

And I think you guys are underselling McCarthy and Clements short. They spent a lot of time as the above notes changing Rodgers mechanics which as noted improved his deep ball accuracy, power and release.

His mechanics are flawless and he did not enter the league that way nor do I think he would have perfected it as quickly if he had to play from day 1 rather than being able to practice it over and over again for 3 years.

Yeah no doubt he might not be as good, but he'd still be very good. He got good coaching, no argument there either. But without Rodgers they are an 8-8 team year in and year out IMO.
 

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On another note it's funny that packers didn't care what a hof qb favre thought and drafted Rodgers and yesterday I had typical bears fans saying we need to see what glennon does first it's not fair. These are the same poster clowns that didn't want to draft a qb cause we had cutler giving that bozo no competition for his job.
 

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Aaron Rodgers is proof a generational QB can't win it on his own.
 

JPPT1974

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Yeah as at least all three have a SB ring!
 

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To call Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark etc nobodies I think is a little extreme.

I think it's fair to say though that none of those guys would have had the types of careers they had without Peyton.

The amount of flack Peyton has gotten on this post I think is ridiculous. If it wasn't for Brady (the GOAT), Peyton may have had 1 or 2 more Superbowls.

Have seriously analyzed peyton's post season record. Also take a look at what happened when he went up against Brady in post season
 

onebud34

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On another note it's funny that packers didn't care what a hof qb favre thought and drafted Rodgers and yesterday I had typical bears fans saying we need to see what glennon does first it's not fair. These are the same poster clowns that didn't want to draft a qb cause we had cutler giving that bozo no competition for his job.

It was GB planning for the future, at the CCS, posters are more concerned about a QB for the defense.
 

remydat

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Yeah no doubt he might not be as good, but he'd still be very good. He got good coaching, no argument there either. But without Rodgers they are an 8-8 team year in and year out IMO.

Well I guess it boils down to how important finding the right situation for a QB is. I have no doubt Rodgers could have received good coaching if he were drafted by several teams. The Bears are just not one of them IMO.
 

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Well I guess it boils down to how important finding the right situation for a QB is. I have no doubt Rodgers could have received good coaching if he were drafted by several teams. The Bears are just not one of them IMO.

If Rodgers were picked by the Bears he would have gone down as the Greatest QB in Bears history. Even an "average Rodgers" is better than anything the Bears have had.
 

remydat

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Somewhere the tallest midget is laughing at the very low bar you've set by referencing greatest Bears QB.
 

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The OP may think he knows what he's talking about and others may think so too but he clearly does not. Sitting QBs does not make them better. As in all things, only experience makes them better.

Rodgers was a natural and taken by the Packers before they were looking for a QB just because other foolish teams like the Bears let him drop. Sitting for a few years had nothing to do with what he became. He was better than Favre from the get go but football politics say you don't oust a legend like that so the Pack had to wait til Favre was kinda ready to step down.

Brady is a system QB. No team in the league projected him to be a day 1 starter. Patriots held on to more QBs than usual to see what they had in the their promising 6th round pick. In a system predicated on players working hard to move up, Brady did that hard work and showed himself worthy. Bledsoe went down and would lose his job, for the first time but not the last, to the QB who was just a better fit for that system. While the casual fan may think the Pats have been all about Brady, that's never been true. They've always put a very good defense on that field and afforded him good protection and talent around him as well. The Patriots were just right for Brady and Brady was just right for them. Both needed each other to bring out their best.

Peyton started from day 1 and always said it was the best thing for a QB, a fast track to learning the game better. Say what you want about Peyton and the post season but I don't believe any other QB carried his team on his back for longer than he did.

As far as the promising QBs the OP mentions in order to then disrespect and act like they have no business being thought of on the same level of the aforementioned 3 greats, let's look at the reality of it. He mentions the future greats as Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota and Derek Carr. Let's go ahead and take out Winston and Mariota cause I don't think they were ever thought of as going on to be "greats" but rather just good or even very good. And going to shit teams will never help their cause. Now let's take out the former ROY and the 2015 MVP. Why? Cause that 2015 season was a fluke and he's a very selfish player meaning he simply doesn't have the right mentality to be great over an extended time period. He's too up and too down and too self absorbed. Leaves us with Wilson, Luck, Ryan and Carr.

Ahh, Andrew Luck, the next Peyton Manning. Injuries early on and a shit franchise that became all too much about putting the entire team on the QB's back have made him look like anything but the next greatest. Maybe things change in the future but this case points to 2 things a career great absolutely requires, long term good health and a solid team around you. Andrew has had neither and so it goes.

Matt Ryan is intriguing. A very good QB who has worked to get better and seems to each year. Again, look at the team he's on. A QB like Brady has played with nothing but good defenses while the guy Ryan has played with nothing but bad ones. If you don't think it's harder to win when you consistently have to score more than 30 points to do so, you're very ignorant.

Russell Wilson made his team a better one since the first day he took the field for them. It couldn't have been more evident so the fact the OP and other casual fans continue to diminish his importance and give all credit to the defense just goes to show how little these fans know. You can't win with no offense and without Wilson, Seattle would have no offense. Has a QB ever done more while being afforded less protection and viable weapons? I think not.

Derek Carr seemed to be taking that next step with the crazy Raiders, before he went down with injury. Certainly he has done more on that team than the parade of QBs who made the attempt before him. It will take a special QB to turn that franchise around. He may very well be just that.
 

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The OP may think he knows what he's talking about and others may think so too but he clearly does not. Sitting QBs does not make them better. As in all things, only experience makes them better.

Great post. I have said all along that I want my rookie QB playing this year even if the coaches feel they have to wait until we're eliminated from the playoff run, which should not take long. You only get better by playing at NFL game speed.

Sitting for 3 years did no good for Barkley.
 

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The OP may think he knows what he's talking about and others may think so too but he clearly does not. Sitting QBs does not make them better. As in all things, only experience makes them better.

Rodgers was a natural and taken by the Packers before they were looking for a QB just because other foolish teams like the Bears let him drop. Sitting for a few years had nothing to do with what he became. He was better than Favre from the get go but football politics say you don't oust a legend like that so the Pack had to wait til Favre was kinda ready to step down.

Brady is a system QB. No team in the league projected him to be a day 1 starter. Patriots held on to more QBs than usual to see what they had in the their promising 6th round pick. In a system predicated on players working hard to move up, Brady did that hard work and showed himself worthy. Bledsoe went down and would lose his job, for the first time but not the last, to the QB who was just a better fit for that system. While the casual fan may think the Pats have been all about Brady, that's never been true. They've always put a very good defense on that field and afforded him good protection and talent around him as well. The Patriots were just right for Brady and Brady was just right for them. Both needed each other to bring out their best.

Peyton started from day 1 and always said it was the best thing for a QB, a fast track to learning the game better. Say what you want about Peyton and the post season but I don't believe any other QB carried his team on his back for longer than he did.

As far as the promising QBs the OP mentions in order to then disrespect and act like they have no business being thought of on the same level of the aforementioned 3 greats, let's look at the reality of it. He mentions the future greats as Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota and Derek Carr. Let's go ahead and take out Winston and Mariota cause I don't think they were ever thought of as going on to be "greats" but rather just good or even very good. And going to shit teams will never help their cause. Now let's take out the former ROY and the 2015 MVP. Why? Cause that 2015 season was a fluke and he's a very selfish player meaning he simply doesn't have the right mentality to be great over an extended time period. He's too up and too down and too self absorbed. Leaves us with Wilson, Luck, Ryan and Carr.

Ahh, Andrew Luck, the next Peyton Manning. Injuries early on and a shit franchise that became all too much about putting the entire team on the QB's back have made him look like anything but the next greatest. Maybe things change in the future but this case points to 2 things a career great absolutely requires, long term good health and a solid team around you. Andrew has had neither and so it goes.

Matt Ryan is intriguing. A very good QB who has worked to get better and seems to each year. Again, look at the team he's on. A QB like Brady has played with nothing but good defenses while the guy Ryan has played with nothing but bad ones. If you don't think it's harder to win when you consistently have to score more than 30 points to do so, you're very ignorant.

Russell Wilson made his team a better one since the first day he took the field for them. It couldn't have been more evident so the fact the OP and other casual fans continue to diminish his importance and give all credit to the defense just goes to show how little these fans know. You can't win with no offense and without Wilson, Seattle would have no offense. Has a QB ever done more while being afforded less protection and viable weapons? I think not.

Derek Carr seemed to be taking that next step with the crazy Raiders, before he went down with injury. Certainly he has done more on that team than the parade of QBs who made the attempt before him. It will take a special QB to turn that franchise around. He may very well be just that.

Point to where I said the rookie QB should sit. Never once said nor do I believe that. He should be given every right to compete against Glennon in camp.

I am sorry but none of those QB's are going to reach Brady, Rodgers or Peyton level. Wilson and Ryan need to be complimented with a great running game. Cam newton is as inconsistent as they come. Andrew Luck looks more like a talented Jay Cutler than a Peyton Manning.

I am with you on Derek Carr and mentioned he was close but need to see more. He is the one guy so far that I have seen that might reach that level.

My post mentions surrounding the QB with a strong running game and defense, not making him the focal point of an offense and wasting picks on high end receiving talent. I pointed that the best way to help your QB is not by getting him a Julio Jones but by having a Marshawn Lynch, Ezekiel Elliot or a Devonta Freeman and a strong O-line.
 

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