Brady, Rodgers and Manning have given us a false premise.

PolarBear · Apr 23, 2017

Every year, we talk about how important QB's are and how they can single handily get your team to the playoffs each and every year and we source Brady, Rodgers and Manning as our evidence. There is no doubt that QB is the most important position in all of football, and to be a good team, history shows you need to have a good QB.

What Brady, Manning and Rodgers have done now however, is make people believe that QB's can do it all on their own. No they can't. These 3 QB's are the exception to the rule. These 3 players are very likely the 3 most talented QB's we have ever seen grace the field in NFL history and we have been spoilt getting to watch these 3 guys over the years.

Think about all the QB's before these 3 and think about all the QB's that will come after in the league right now. Is there a QB out there who you can truly say, carried their team to the playoffs year in and year out like those 3? Maybe Dan Marino. Joe Montana, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Troy Aikman all had a GREAT supporting casts at the height of their careers and I don't think any one of those guys could carry a team on their own like we have seen Brady, Rodgers and Manning do at times.

Think about the QB's of the future that we have - Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota. Do any of you guys see any of these QB's having the same sort of impact on their teams as those 3? Derek Carr might be close but haven't seen enough yet.

My point is that, while it's extremely important that we find a good QB, a team can win without building solely around an all-time great QB and passing attack. Build around your running game, build up your defense and have a good QB to compliment them. Forget about trying to give your average-above average QB uber talented weapons and build around a passing attack.

I think you are going to see the running game and running backs come back into style shortly as we see the all-time greats like Brady/Rodgers leave the game and we have less of the cerebral, pocket passing QB's in the league.

Big Tyme D · Apr 23, 2017

Your points are extremely valid

TL1961 · Apr 23, 2017

PolarBear said:
Every year, we talk about how important QB's are and how they can single handily get your team to the playoffs each and every year and we source Brady, Rodgers and Manning as our evidence. There is no doubt that QB is the most important position in all of football, and to be a good team, history shows you need to have a good QB.

What Brady, Manning and Rodgers have done now however, is make people believe that QB's can do it all on their own. No they can't. These 3 QB's are the exception to the rule. These 3 players are very likely the 3 most talented QB's we have ever seen grace the field in NFL history and we have been spoilt getting to watch these 3 guys over the years.

Think about all the QB's before these 3 and think about all the QB's that will come after in the league right now. Is there a QB out there who you can truly say, carried their team to the playoffs year in and year out like those 3? Maybe Dan Marino. Joe Montana, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Troy Aikman all had a GREAT supporting casts at the height of their careers and I don't think any one of those guys could carry a team on their own like we have seen Brady, Rodgers and Manning do at times.

Think about the QB's of the future that we have - Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota. Do any of you guys see any of these QB's having the same sort of impact on their teams as those 3? Derek Carr might be close but haven't seen enough yet.

My point is that, while it's extremely important that we find a good QB, a team can win without building solely around an all-time great QB and passing attack. Build around your running game, build up your defense and have a good QB to compliment them. Forget about trying to give your average-above average QB uber talented weapons and build around a passing attack.

I think you are going to see the running game and running backs come back into style shortly as we see the all-time greats like Brady/Rodgers leave the game and we have less of the cerebral, pocket passing QB's in the league.

This gets my vote for "Post Of The Year".

Excellent points.

KennyH · Apr 23, 2017

Is part of the problem the rush to have drafted QB's start day one as the clamour seems to be at the moment?

Both Brady and Rodgers sat and learned the system before coming into contention (not sure about Manning?). That seems to be less of a tactic in the game today - would have been interesting to see whether Luck, Winston and Marriota would have been better served sitting for a year or two behind an experienced QB - maybe it would have made no difference but can't help feel the baptism of fire approach is a little bit short sighted.

Anyway, here's hoping the Bears draft a Watson or Trubisky and in a few years we're having a 'who was better' debate between the future Bears QB and Brady/Manning/Rodgers!! :thinking:

PeterMbangala · Apr 23, 2017

I agree with almost everything you wrote and I still want to draft Watson at 3.

mecha · Apr 23, 2017

KennyH said:
Is part of the problem the rush to have drafted QB's start day one as the clamour seems to be at the moment?

Both Brady and Rodgers sat and learned the system before coming into contention (not sure about Manning?). That seems to be less of a tactic in the game today - would have been interesting to see whether Luck, Winston and Marriota would have been better served sitting for a year or two behind an experienced QB - maybe it would have made no difference but can't help feel the baptism of fire approach is a little bit short sighted.

Anyway, here's hoping the Bears draft a Watson or Trubisky and in a few years we're having a 'who was better' debate between the future Bears QB and Brady/Manning/Rodgers!! :thinking:

Manning was thrown into the mix right away. I've been arguing OP's points for a long time now, just to get shouted down by the "omgzzzzzzzzzz we needs elite QBs" crowd.

Elway went to 200 Super Bowls and didn't win it all until the rest of the team caught up. there have been many great QBs that played on dogshit incomplete teams that didn't even get to Super Bowls.

Pace is rebuilding this team thoroughly, I think to put an exclamation mark on the process would be to get his own QB of his choosing. that I can agree with.

BearClaw55 · Apr 23, 2017

PeterMbangala said:
I agree with almost everything you wrote and I still want to draft Watson at 3.

Exactly! Now that the Bears are in position to draft one of the top 2 QBs potential wise in the draft, don't get cold feet now. Drafting a QB with pick #1 doesn't stop a the Bears from building up the defense & running game, it's only one draft pick.

PolarBear · Apr 23, 2017

PeterMbangala said:
I agree with almost everything you wrote and I still want to draft Watson at 3.

BearClaw55 said:
Exactly! Now that the Bears are in position to draft one of the top 2 QBs potential wise in the draft, don't get cold feet now. Drafting a QB with pick #1 doesn't stop a the Bears from building up the defense & running game, it's only one draft pick.

Don't you two get confused. I want a QB at #3. That wasn't the point. I didn't say you could win with a scrub.

The point is to ensure you don't throw this guy out there, spend a high pick on a TE and WR, make him the focal point of the attack and expect him to carry your team.

There isn't a QB out there right now not named Brady or Rodgers that can do that for you consistently without an effective running game and defense

Jailbreak · Apr 23, 2017

I think your premise is correct. This is why Brady has had so much success, among others. Probably a big part of Jay's failure. You need to protect the qb, particularly one coming out. This is a good draft, but not so much at OT.

Jailbreak · Apr 23, 2017

mecha said:
Manning was thrown into the mix right away. I've been arguing OP's points for a long time now, just to get shouted down by the "omgzzzzzzzzzz we needs elite QBs" crowd.

Elway went to 200 Super Bowls and didn't win it all until the rest of the team caught up. there have been many great QBs that played on dogshit incomplete teams that didn't even get to Super Bowls.

Pace is rebuilding this team thoroughly, I think to put an exclamation mark on the process would be to get his own QB of his choosing. that I can agree with.

Noone is really shouting you down. You have valid points.

BaBaBlacksheep · Apr 23, 2017

"What Brady, Manning and Rodgers have done now however, is make people believe that QB's can do it all on their own. No they can't. These 3 QB's are the exception to the rule"

Who is saying QB's can do it all on their own? Has anyone said that?

Brady is incredible....but benefits from one of the NFL's all time defensive masters in Belichick. Good defense is a huge part of why he has 5 SB rings. Rodgers clearly could use some help up in Green Bay. Manning had a defense gift him his second SB ring.

A good/great QB is the foundation of your team but obviously if you're going to win it all you need a good D and run game too. I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

Adipost · Apr 23, 2017

Great post. Thanks for the reality check.

PolarBear · Apr 23, 2017

BaBaBlacksheep said:
"What Brady, Manning and Rodgers have done now however, is make people believe that QB's can do it all on their own. No they can't. These 3 QB's are the exception to the rule"

Who is saying QB's can do it all on their own? Has anyone said that?

Brady is incredible....but benefits from one of the NFL's all time defensive masters in Belichick. Good defense is a huge part of why he has 5 SB rings. Rodgers clearly could use some help up in Green Bay. Manning had a defense gift him his second SB ring.

A good/great QB is the foundation of your team but obviously if you're going to win it all you need a good D and run game too. I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

Doing all on your own is exaggerated but for the most part, Rodgers continues to take what is an average supporting cast to the playoffs consistently year in and year out and is seen as a title contender.

Manning had some of the worst defenses in the league for numerous years and he still took them deep to the playoffs only to really run into Brady.

Tom probably had the most help of the 3 but he has taken some injury riddled teams to the playoffs and the SB the last couple years. Other than Corey Dillon early in his career, he has taken no name backs and small, albeit talented slot receivers to the promise land. Even gone without probably the most unguardable offensive threat in the league in Gronk.

I think that these 3 guys (along with Brees somewhat) have set the tone around the league that this is a passing league yet, the teams that always seem to get to the Superbowl to play against these big 3 are teams with great rushing attacks and defenses - Seattle, Carolina, Atlanta, San Francisco, Baltimore etc. Probably the better, more rounded teams.

Teams like the Colts, Atlanta, Lions etc. Have tried to build their teams around their young, talented QB's ability to throw the ball exclusively almost by giving them talented receivers...It hasn't/didn't work.

Hammer · Apr 23, 2017

Brady (Patriots), Peyton Manning (Colts & Broncos) and Rodgers (Packers) have shown us how with the all time great QBs you can have a perennial Super Bowl contender team.

Rothlisberger (Steelers), Eli Manning (Giants) and Wilson (Seahawks) have shown us how you can win Super Bowls and be a strong Playoffs contender year after year even without greatest passer in NFL, but you need great defense and RB to win it all.

And last, Brees (Saints) have shown us how incompetent franchise can screw up even one of the best passers, and that you need a good defense to win in the league (they did win one SB though).

On the other hand, I have jet to be convinced that you can be a constant 10+ wins team, and Playoffs/Super Bowl contender with the QB who can't beat the opposition with his arm as your starter (Newton, plus Watson projects as that kind of QB type).

EL ROCKSTEADY · Apr 23, 2017

PolarBear said:
Every year, we talk about how important QB's are and how they can single handily get your team to the playoffs each and every year and we source Brady, Rodgers and Manning as our evidence. There is no doubt that QB is the most important position in all of football, and to be a good team, history shows you need to have a good QB.

What Brady, Manning and Rodgers have done now however, is make people believe that QB's can do it all on their own. No they can't. These 3 QB's are the exception to the rule. These 3 players are very likely the 3 most talented QB's we have ever seen grace the field in NFL history and we have been spoilt getting to watch these 3 guys over the years.

Think about all the QB's before these 3 and think about all the QB's that will come after in the league right now. Is there a QB out there who you can truly say, carried their team to the playoffs year in and year out like those 3? Maybe Dan Marino. Joe Montana, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Troy Aikman all had a GREAT supporting casts at the height of their careers and I don't think any one of those guys could carry a team on their own like we have seen Brady, Rodgers and Manning do at times.

Think about the QB's of the future that we have - Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota. Do any of you guys see any of these QB's having the same sort of impact on their teams as those 3? Derek Carr might be close but haven't seen enough yet.

My point is that, while it's extremely important that we find a good QB, a team can win without building solely around an all-time great QB and passing attack. Build around your running game, build up your defense and have a good QB to compliment them. Forget about trying to give your average-above average QB uber talented weapons and build around a passing attack.

I think you are going to see the running game and running backs come back into style shortly as we see the all-time greats like Brady/Rodgers leave the game and we have less of the cerebral, pocket passing QB's in the league.

we could only be so fortunate to land a QB of that greatness. The more the QB can do by them self the better off your team will be.

Noonthirtyjoe · Apr 23, 2017

The rule changes make todays QB seem better then the old QBs. They are not. I would still take Montana Marino Elway over Brady Manning AR.

Camden Cutler · Apr 23, 2017

that settles it...jamal adams it is

bearmick · Apr 23, 2017

PeterMbangala said:
I agree with almost everything you wrote and I still want to draft Watson at 3.

Ditto.

Polar, you're absolutely right. But I don't think many people wanting to draft a QB in round 1 have the definite expectation that they'd be a Manning/Brady/Rodgers. It would be a wonderful bonus if they were that good, but really I think most of us (whether it's Watson or Trubisky) just want one of the types you mentioned that are young and good but not GOAT-level elite.

If you put QBs in four basic categories ...

1) Manning/Brady/Rodgers types

2) The types you mentioned (Carr, Ryan, Mariota, Wilson etc). Franchise QBs you build around, good enough to make you competitive but not superman enough to do it alone.

3) The ocean of meh - the mediocre guys good enough to be one of the 32 QBs starting on Sundays but not good enough to be "the answer", or the franchise player you want to build around. Cutler, Glennon (he gets into this group because he is starting but in reality he's been a level 4 until now), Fitzpatrick, Bradford etc.

4) The bums and backups.

For me, it's not that I expect the QB to do it all by himself, but rather that without that level 2 QB, we almost certainly won't be winning anything, unless we somehow managed to assemble a historically elite defense that's good enough to win a title with level 3 QB play (2015 Broncos, 2000 Ravens), which I think this is more of a stretch that hitting on a QB.

I think Watson and Trubisky both have a great chance of being one of these level 2 guys, even if they aren't the GOAT level 1s.

legendxofxlink · Apr 23, 2017

BaBaBlacksheep said:
"What Brady, Manning and Rodgers have done now however, is make people believe that QB's can do it all on their own. No they can't. These 3 QB's are the exception to the rule"

Who is saying QB's can do it all on their own? Has anyone said that?

Brady is incredible....but benefits from one of the NFL's all time defensive masters in Belichick. Good defense is a huge part of why he has 5 SB rings. Rodgers clearly could use some help up in Green Bay. Manning had a defense gift him his second SB ring.

A good/great QB is the foundation of your team but obviously if you're going to win it all you need a good D and run game too. I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

Someone posted yesterday that drafting a QB gives Bears a better chance at more than 8 wins in the future than any other pick

CHICAGOMIDWAYMONSTERS · Apr 23, 2017

I think Watson, Trubisky & Mahomes could all be as good as Mariota, Dak Prescott & Winston. They just need time to learn & develop.

Brady, Rodgers and Manning have given us a false premise.

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