SuperDitkaMan's Nagy and Pace Thread

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SuperDitkaMan

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I don't buy into this "he's an air raid QB." It's kind of a cliche for people that actually don't pay much attention.

It was an issue in the past when TTU was one of the rare spread offenses. And being a smaller school, they weren't exactly recruiting top notch QB talent. So most of these guys put up huge numbers because of the high % of pass plays. But they never recruited top notch QB talent. Their QBs never had big arms and rarely good athletes.

Texas Tech's current offense is a lot different than the the old school air raids. Kingsbury played in the NFL, uses a lot of pro concepts. He has Mahomes relay plays, call audibles. Mahomes calls protections. More advanced route trees. There is a lot more play action and they actually attack deep more often than older air raid systems. They have multi-read plays and if you watch you can see him go through progressions.

There's alway a first. Remember when Jeff Tedford QB's weren't good in the NFL... before Aaron Rodgers?

That's all well and good for Kliff Kingsbury.

And despite Kliff...Mahomes played like a playgrounder. He probably drive Kliff nuts.

But FTR...I'm.not passing on Mahomes because of the system.

I'm passing because of all the reasons I mentioned in my original post.
 

Enasic

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Trubisky and Watson have more potential though.

So why not let them sit for a couple years under Glennon...assuming Glennon doesn't play like Uncle Rico.

How so? Mahomes is just as mobile as either of them. He's probably the best improviser of the 3. He has the strongest arm of the 3. If you're talking strictly potential, I'm no sure how Watson/Trubisky have more than Mahomes.
 

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OJ Howard and Sims could potentially make for a dynamic duo at TE as Fournette and Howard could do the same at RB. The odds of striking gold again in the later rounds at the RB position are not that great. The Bears need all the help they can get on offense and any big time playmakers are a welcome addition to this team I'm my book. Two great running backs on this team could do greater things than just having Howard and a group of mediocre RBS behind him at best and we wouldn't have to rely on Glennon as much to be a big factor. OJ Howard would also help Glennon a ton. Either way Glennon and any other QB the Bears get would be getting a ton of help from either of those two guys.
 

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They don't need Fournette, I'd just say he'd be hard to pass up. The kid is a beast and can outrun the secondary. I'm hoping Cleveland takes a qb, SF takes Howard and we get Garrett. This draft is so deep with dbs. Jordan and Fournette would be quite the combo.
 

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They can get the best defensive player available in the early 2nd round, but they need a big time addition to the offense with the number 3 pick. There's absolutely no doubt about that. There are difference makers right there that can do wonders for the offense and that'll ultimately help the defense when the offense keeps drives going because they'll have two great running backs they can alternate in the games and keep the chains moving or a TE that will drastically improve the passing game. Those two guys would be big time players on this team on day one OR they get their franchise QB at 3 and just roll with what they got already on offense and have that franchise QB in their back pocket. Going defense at number 3 is not the answer when the offense is hurting more than the defense imo.
 

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I don't buy into this "he's an air raid QB." It's kind of a cliche for people that actually don't pay much attention.

It was an issue in the past when TTU was one of the rare spread offenses. And being a smaller school, they weren't exactly recruiting top notch QB talent. So most of these guys put up huge numbers because of the high % of pass plays. But they never recruited top notch QB talent. Their QBs never had big arms and rarely good athletes.

Texas Tech's current offense is a lot different than the the old school air raids. Kingsbury played in the NFL, uses a lot of pro concepts. He has Mahomes relay plays, call audibles. Mahomes calls protections. More advanced route trees. There is a lot more play action and they actually attack deep more often than older air raid systems. They have multi-read plays and if you watch you can see him go through progressions.

There's alway a first. Remember when Jeff Tedford QB's weren't good in the NFL... before Aaron Rodgers?

You beat me to it. I was going to bring up Tedford.

Mahomes will fail in Chicago with the mediocre coaching staff we have in place. I feel that if he were to land somewhere like Arizona would be able to sit at least a year and be under the tutelage of Arians. In that scenario I see him being very successful. That is assuming he has a good work ethic, unfortunately his work ethic won't save him in Chicago.
 

SuperDitkaMan

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How so? Mahomes is just as mobile as either of them. He's probably the best improviser of the 3. He has the strongest arm of the 3. If you're talking strictly potential, I'm no sure how Watson/Trubisky have more than Mahomes.

They don't play playground ball like Mahomes.

He's Logan Thomas 2.0 for the guy who mentioned Arizona as a destination. Arians learned his lesson with big armed playground guys.
 

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I watched lots of film on every top QB prospect, and I think Mahomes is the best QB prospect in the draft, and probably should be the 2nd overall pick in the draft after Myles Garrett. So, uh, obviously, I disagree with OP.

Trubisky is a safer pick, and I also think Watson can develop into a good NFL quarterback, but I think there's a good chance that if you take Trubiski or Watson over Mahomes, you're kicking yourself 5 years down the road when you realize you basically picked Alex Smith over Brett Favre.

It isn't even Mahomes' arm that I like so much.... His ability to turn nothing into a first down has as much to do with the fact that he's so slippery and has such great vision, awareness, and toughness. He's one of those quarterbacks who just drives defenses nuts. And the Cutler comparisons are totally ridiculous. Cutler's major weaknesses are accuracy, awareness, and decision-making, three things that are Mahomes' strengths. Mahomes is also very accurate on the run and excels under duress, which are, again, very anti-Cutler traits.

Plays like these are the ones that really sold me on Mahomes:

Awareness of down, distance, and where line of scrimmage is, and patience to wait for perfect time to deliver the ball:
mahomes-isu.gif


Two pass rushers come totally unblocked, he makes both of them miss, has patience to wait for receiver to come open, and willing to absorb big hit:
mahomes-mess-2.gif


Blitz collapses pocket almost immediately, escapes making good defenders look silly in the process, keeps eyes downfield, completes accurate pass while moving sideways/backwards:
mahomes-mess.gif
 

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That's all very impressive, sir.

And thanks for basically just re-enforcing my point that Mahomes is going to SUCK.

Because besides Tolliver....Name me ONE TTech QB in the last 25 years who's been good in the pros?

Show me a Texas Tech QB with stats like Mahomes, that came into the NFL and failed. It's not like these guys were elite in college and then failed in the NFL. They always sucked.

Here's the entire list

WcPzVQO.png


Also notice the Patriots weren't afraid to spend a draft pick on a QB from Texas Tech in 2003.
 
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OJ Howard makes your run game better & could potentially be your #1 WR. Thats pretty valuable.

How much better is OJ than Evan Engram though? You might be able to get Engram in the 2nd.
 

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The Cutler comparisons are dumb, IMO. Mahomes for one, is very down to earth and coachable, he's not totally full of himself or has a weak demeanor like Cutler has. People will be drawn to Mahomes unlike Jay. Beyond that, his improvisational ability is much better. That's not to say that Jay was bad when he got out of the pocket, but Mahomes is much more natural in that dept. He does compare to Jay Cutler in a sense - athletic ability, all world arm, gun slinger mentality - but Mahomes seems much more coachable and much more to be accepted by NFL veterans than Jay was. I also think he has a more natural feel for the game. Other than physical talent, the comparisons between Jay and Mahomes are that Pat needs to really clean up his mechanics and he needs to learn to trust his arm SLIGHTLY less. If he ever learns the difference between good chances and bad chances, the dude is going to be elite.
 

SuperDitkaMan

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Show me a Texas Tech QB with stats like Mahomes, that came into the NFL and failed. It's not like these guys were elite in college and then failed in the NFL. They always sucked.

Here's the entire list

WcPzVQO.png


Also notice the Patriots weren't afraid to spend a draft pick on a QB from Texas Tech in 2003.

For a guy who apparently LOVES Texas Tech...you don't know much about them.

Their passing game is ALWAYS among the best in passing stats. EVERY YEAR.

Graham Harrell threw had 5700yds and 48 tds in one year somewhere in the mid 2000's.

Seth Doege, Taylor Potts.

Great in college. Terrible in the pros.

Mahomes has a chance to be better than all of them, I admit....but i wouldn't TOUCH him before the 5th round.
 

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The Cutler comparisons are dumb, IMO. Mahomes for one, is very down to earth and coachable, he's not totally full of himself or has a weak demeanor like Cutler has. People will be drawn to Mahomes unlike Jay. Beyond that, his improvisational ability is much better. That's not to say that Jay was bad when he got out of the pocket, but Mahomes is much more natural in that dept. He does compare to Jay Cutler in a sense - athletic ability, all world arm, gun slinger mentality - but Mahomes seems much more coachable and much more to be accepted by NFL veterans than Jay was. I also think he has a more natural feel for the game. Other than physical talent, the comparisons between Jay and Mahomes are that Pat needs to really clean up his mechanics and he needs to learn to trust his arm SLIGHTLY less. If he ever learns the difference between good chances and bad chances, the dude is going to be elite.

Mahomes is more Johnny Manziel than Cutler. I mean playing style, of course. They both had the broken play stuff, that's why people loved them. Manziel was more accurate. Mahomes has the stronger arm.
 

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I don't like any at 3, and I don't see Pace as very ballsy. Some of these guys can be had lower and might work out with some organizational effort at development. Mahomes has the best arm in the draft, but no way I take him 3. Webb or Kelly may end up better.
 

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The Cutler comparisons are dumb, IMO. Mahomes for one, is very down to earth and coachable, he's not totally full of himself or has a weak demeanor like Cutler has. People will be drawn to Mahomes unlike Jay. Beyond that, his improvisational ability is much better. That's not to say that Jay was bad when he got out of the pocket, but Mahomes is much more natural in that dept. He does compare to Jay Cutler in a sense - athletic ability, all world arm, gun slinger mentality - but Mahomes seems much more coachable and much more to be accepted by NFL veterans than Jay was. I also think he has a more natural feel for the game. Other than physical talent, the comparisons between Jay and Mahomes are that Pat needs to really clean up his mechanics and he needs to learn to trust his arm SLIGHTLY less. If he ever learns the difference between good chances and bad chances, the dude is going to be elite.

Cutler hardly has a weak demeanor. He's arrogant, which has had an effect on his coachability.
 

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Funny. I thought he had a froggy Raymond voice too. Sign me up to the club.

My response if Bears pick Mahommes....
giphy.gif



Honestly I'll be even more upset. NOT a fan, mostly based on his shitty interviews...and NOT JUST with goofy Gruden, although Gruden really gave him a harder time than anybody while constrained by the ESPN/NFL shield to not be a total dick to them and talk them up.

He's TOO cocky, careless with the ball run & pass. Arrogantly admits and brags about trying to fit into holes he shouldn't like that's a good thing. Same with Kizer a bit on that one.

Just seems like an immature tool opposite of the leader they need. And don't counter that he's only 20 or whatever. Most of these guys are underclassman but demonstrate basic self-control even if less than genuine interviews. Several threads & posts against this pick. Thankfully it's pretty unlikely. He belongs with NYJ, NYG or who cares where else. I don't see AZ wanting hit attitude despite many mocks.
 

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I'm curious....if we can already conclude that the drafted QB will be sitting on the bench for awhile, why not draft the guy with the highest ceiling? just playing devil's advocate here. I don't want Mahomes at 3, but I think he has one of the highest ceilings if he puts everything together
 

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Cutler hardly has a weak demeanor. He's arrogant, which has had an effect on his coachability.

Maybe weak demeanor isn't the best wording. But he doesn't have a commanding presence. He's not the type of personality who will unite a team or get people to rally behind him. That's an innate QB trait that I think is pivotal for the position. I haven't seen many QBs have success without it. Cutler for whatever reason, rubbed a lot of his teammates the wrong way over the years. And as a QB, you can't have that. You need to be a likeable and confident presence. Beyond the physical skills and mental preparation to perform on the field.
 

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People are comparing him to Cutler not because of his personality, they're comparing him because of his playground, pat the ball until you're open, who needs footwork, screw it i'm throwing into double coverage because I can, style.

NONE of the best QBs in the league were drafted because they had exceptional arm strength, and the fact that this is such a selling point after we had 8 years of Cutler is ridiculous.
 
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