Hawks trade Scott Darling to Carolina

LordKOTL · May 1, 2017

Raskolnikov said:
Kruger/Seabs/Hammer is the pot?

Cap is going up a bit?

Can we trade for a player that protectsTVR with that third rounder? then expose like Glass/TooToo/Kruger/and the trade guy?

Forcing them to take Kruger? Or we can pay to move Kruger in Debricats and Mottes and Pokka's and picks.

Is Toews allowed to restructure? How would he react to a trade-threat(that isn't even real)/restructure-offer combo?

No. And it's getting painful how much this is brought up on the interwebs. This is the Sport of Hockey, not the Standing Around of American football.

1st--expansion and how it stands: If you protect TVR you expose every FWD not named Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Anisimov (that it's exempt, like Panarin). If you protect Hartman or any other FWD, TVR's exposed. There's no other way around it. Maybe we make a trade to Vegas that protects them both, but I'm not sure how it works.

As for the larger salaries, here's how it stands:
Hoss: Signed through the end of 21, Full NMC. 4.25M recapture risk every year through 21 (i.e. if he retires for any team prior to 2021, we pay 4.25M/year until 2021)
Keith: Signed through end of 2023, Full NMC. Recapture risks are: 2.796M this summer (through 2023), 2.688 next summer, 3.1 following, 3.455, 3.738, and 4.038 his last year.
Seabrook: Signed through 2024. Full NMC through 2022, Modified NTC the final 2 years (5 team trade list 23, 10 team 24). Not sure about recapture, but a front-loaded contract.
T+K: Signed through 2023. Full NMC. Not sure about recapture, but is a front-loaded contract.
Ani: Signed through 2021. Full NMC through 2018. Modified NTC following years (10-team trade list). Front-loaded.
Hjammer: Signed through 2020. 10-team trade list Modified NTC/NMC.
Crawford: Signed through 2020. 10-team trade list Modified NTC/NMC (new source--Scott Powers).

Moving those might not be easy.

Raskolnikov · May 1, 2017

Maybe we can pay them a 2nd rounder to pick Kruger over TVR?

Spunky Porkstacker · May 1, 2017

Tater said:
Fantastic use of the quote feature!

I'll just say I clicked on the quote button below the box (normal procedure to quote) and the quote posted was messed up. Maybe report it to the mod about the site there have been issues of to much traffic and not enough bandwith :shrug:.

RacerX · May 1, 2017

It was the run of a lifetime, and it's time to acknowledge we are the tail-end. Given the current roster and cap mess, plus lack of quality prospects this team will continue to trend down.

Still a very good and legit playoff team, but far too many holes to be considered a Cup contender.

This is no chicken-little post, I think most of the informed adults likely feel the same way. Thanks to SB and Q for the best stretch of Hawks hockey fandom ever.

Raskolnikov · May 1, 2017

If we come out of this off-season with Panik, Panarin, Hartman, Hayden, and Smaltz I will be content that the future is bright.

farm guys who can take a step and help us (Motte, Bondra, Debricat, Forsling, Forslin)

In addition to the clearly unmovable core above, those are my ten untouchables. Who are yours?

RacerX · May 1, 2017

Raskolnikov said:
If we come out of this off-season with Panik, Panarin, Hartman, Hayden, and Smaltz I will be content that the future is bright.

farm guys who can take a step and help us (Motte, Bondra, Debricat, Forsling, Forslin)

In addition to the clearly unmovable core above, those are my ten untouchables. Who are yours?

None of them. All those guys can be moved along with anyone in the core.

It should be blown up, there isn't enough speed, size, grit, puck possession on the roster to compete with the numerous up & coming teams. We have become, or are in the process of becoming, a shorter-term Detroit. In light of our contract situation and cap constraints a bit of the annual tweaking just cannot possibly plug the many gaps and deficiencies.

This was a very flawed conference winner TBH.

ClydeLee · May 1, 2017

RacerX said:
None of them. All those guys can be moved along with anyone in the core.

It should be blown up, there isn't enough speed, size, grit, puck possession on the roster to compete with the numerous up & coming teams. We have become, or are in the process of becoming, a shorter-term Detroit. In light of our contract situation and cap constraints a bit of the annual tweaking just cannot possibly plug the many gaps and deficiencies.

This was a very flawed conference winner TBH.

They Can't be moved though because of what it takes on the harm you have to add to get most of those deals taken.

But that's also why the few Schmaltz forsling types can't be moved because they have what they can't give up without getting that same value back.

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Raskolnikov · May 1, 2017

you don't blow up magic like this.

The Blues are really struggling with Smashville too, and they look like the best team in the west. We ran into a matchup that exposed us.

The core is one that you trust to make another push before it is all over. Let Kane/Toews and company go home and try to figure this out. Seabs and Keith will soul search too, and hopefully they all get motivated on some training and bounce back.

We can't move the core, as stated. The plan wasn't to blow it up, and so it would be painful to do so prematurely.

We have a long list of youth who will all take a step together, and fortify the core once. more.

Split of the 3 defenders, and go on a search to find the right value mate with wheels for each of them. TVR getting snatched almost makes it easy for us to let go and focus on building 3 lines with the big 3 again. Kempny I like with Hammer, Forsling with Keith, and Seabs and Pokka might not be bad?

Fuck what stick you play with. less than 10% of males are left handed. They need to deal with it, you can't have everything.

Some of our youth have the size/speed combo. Bondra/Hayden/Hartman/Rasmussen/Baun can all add grit to this team. I won't write off Kero either, he is ascending and just needs to take HGH now until he looks like that Ogre on the Blues.

LordKOTL · May 2, 2017

Raskolnikov said:
you don't blow up magic like this.

The Blues are really struggling with Smashville too, and they look like the best team in the west. We ran into a matchup that exposed us.

The core is one that you trust to make another push before it is all over. Let Kane/Toews and company go home and try to figure this out. Seabs and Keith will soul search too, and hopefully they all get motivated on some training and bounce back.

We can't move the core, as stated. The plan wasn't to blow it up, and so it would be painful to do so prematurely.

We have a long list of youth who will all take a step together, and fortify the core once. more.

Split of the 3 defenders, and go on a search to find the right value mate with wheels for each of them. TVR getting snatched almost makes it easy for us to let go and focus on building 3 lines with the big 3 again. Kempny I like with Hammer, Forsling with Keith, and Seabs and Pokka might not be bad?

Fuck what stick you play with. less than 10% of males are left handed. They need to deal with it, you can't have everything.

Some of our youth have the size/speed combo. Bondra/Hayden/Hartman/Rasmussen/Baun can all add grit to this team. I won't write off Kero either, he is ascending and just needs to take HGH now until he looks like that Ogre on the Blues.

Yes, Steroids are the answer...

That wake-up call should have been the previous season...not this current one. Let's not forget Toews played like ass the previous playoffs as well.

I'm not going to say "write-off the core", but I think the team has to shift it's focus. The core can't play the same game that won it all in 2010, 2013, and 2015--and in that I think it's where Q, Kitch, Dinneen, and all the players failed epically against Nashville--they were stuck trying to play a game format they could no longer play, were constantly beat, and in a Wile E. Coyote exercise of futility, kept trying to plug away with it. It exposed the 'hawks as completely one-dimensional. There was no "plan B", and there should have been.

DMelt36 · May 2, 2017

There's another Cup to be won out of this group if they can put it all together in the next season or two. I fully believe that. The question is whether or not they can make it happen. And they're likely going to need some shrewd moves from the GM to help.

RacerX · May 2, 2017

LordKOTL said:
Yes, Steroids are the answer...

That wake-up call should have been the previous season...not this current one. Let's not forget Toews played like ass the previous playoffs as well.

I'm not going to say "write-off the core", but I think the team has to shift it's focus. The core can't play the same game that won it all in 2010, 2013, and 2015--and in that I think it's where Q, Kitch, Dinneen, and all the players failed epically against Nashville--they were stuck trying to play a game format they could no longer play, were constantly beat, and in a Wile E. Coyote exercise of futility, kept trying to plug away with it. It exposed the 'hawks as completely one-dimensional. There was no "plan B", and there should have been.

And the lack of speed is only going to be further exposed and exploited as they age, especially our D which all skated like Brookbank (i.e., pylon). Retooling the roster is all SB can do, because as stated there is no Plan B. It has virtually no chance to attain the level of past success.

anotheridiot · May 2, 2017

Raskolnikov said:
Split of the 3 defenders, and go on a search to find the right value mate with wheels for each of them. TVR getting snatched almost makes it easy for us to let go and focus on building 3 lines with the big 3 again. Kempny I like with Hammer, Forsling with Keith, and Seabs and Pokka might not be bad?

Fuck what stick you play with. less than 10% of males are left handed. They need to deal with it, you can't have everything.

Some of our youth have the size/speed combo. Bondra/Hayden/Hartman/Rasmussen/Baun can all add grit to this team. I won't write off Kero either, he is ascending and just needs to take HGH now until he looks like that Ogre on the Blues.

I get your stick side, but you are also forcing that line mate to play with the off hand guy. You have Seabs and Pokka and lefties to work with. I just dont get it. You give a kid one game sometimes at this level, even if his first shot ever scores a goal, and he wont work, send him back down, get rid of him. TVR was playing with the crutches of Timo, Rosival, Brookbank, Runblad and turnovers were always his fault. But to tell the veteran Hammer to get his ass back on the strong side is asking too much.

BlackHawkPaul · May 4, 2017

DMelt36 said:
There's another Cup to be won out of this group if they can put it all together in the next season or two. I fully believe that. The question is whether or not they can make it happen. And they're likely going to need some shrewd moves from the GM to help.

Not going to happen unless you move a piece of the core to gain 1 or 2 prospects for low dollars that can hit a la Saad.
One of the other things this team has been blessed with is health. Kane was hurt, but was good enough to come back for the playoff run and win a cup.
This team really hasn't seen a major injury hit since early on when Toews got rocked in LA years ago.

LordKOTL · May 5, 2017

anotheridiot said:
I get your stick side, but you are also forcing that line mate to play with the off hand guy. You have Seabs and Pokka and lefties to work with. I just dont get it. You give a kid one game sometimes at this level, even if his first shot ever scores a goal, and he wont work, send him back down, get rid of him. TVR was playing with the crutches of Timo, Rosival, Brookbank, Runblad and turnovers were always his fault. But to tell the veteran Hammer to get his ass back on the strong side is asking too much.

Hjammer can play on his offside better than anyone else we're icing--not to mention he's been doing the defensive heavy lifting for the last 2 seasons (and actually says he prefers his off-side). With only 1-2 righties in the system someone has gotta play their offside, and it might as well be the guys who not only can do it, but has been doing it pretty much since Sopel left the 'hawks, and has been our best defenseman in the backend. After all, he played offside with Oduya in 2015, not the other way around and they were able to take strong matchups.

Rosie and Seabs have been old and slow, and Keith has not been a player able to carry another defenseman since his Conn Smythe playoffs (and has been carried by Hjammer in the backend since). So what do you do? Force a rookie who's prone to mistakes on their off-side, or go with the devil you know?

Getting more RHD is something for the offseason. Something I hope Stan does this summer.

ClydeLee · May 5, 2017

Force a rookie onto their offside is apparently what countless play Kempny over TVR fans were screaming for all season.

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ClydeLee · May 5, 2017

The signing has happened. 4.15 for 4 years. Well done Scotty

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Tater · May 5, 2017

ClydeLee said:
The signing has happened. 4.15 for 4 years. Well done Scotty

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Good for Darling. I wish him well there, hopefully he gets to start.

anotheridiot · May 6, 2017

LordKOTL said:
Hjammer can play on his offside better than anyone else we're icing--not to mention he's been doing the defensive heavy lifting for the last 2 seasons (and actually says he prefers his off-side). With only 1-2 righties in the system someone has gotta play their offside, and it might as well be the guys who not only can do it, but has been doing it pretty much since Sopel left the 'hawks, and has been our best defenseman in the backend. After all, he played offside with Oduya in 2015, not the other way around and they were able to take strong matchups.

Rosie and Seabs have been old and slow, and Keith has not been a player able to carry another defenseman since his Conn Smythe playoffs (and has been carried by Hjammer in the backend since). So what do you do? Force a rookie who's prone to mistakes on their off-side, or go with the devil you know?

Getting more RHD is something for the offseason. Something I hope Stan does this summer.

I understand that, but you make the partner work differently as well. It only worked with Oduya when Johnny was healthy, and Johnny-O was never back from that injury in Dallas. Bowman was a head scratcher giving Seabrook that long deal, but I still see it as a struggle of Bowman gets all this international talent and Q only wants to play old d men. What we saw in Nashville was that push, over aggressive D men in the offensive zone but they still got back on D. The hawks just seem to be expecting it to happen again, and it never started.

MassHavoc · May 7, 2017

And then you have the people questioning why Darling was moved instead of Crow. That guy gets no respect. Best of luck to Darling. Loved him here but have a feeling they probably overpaid.

LordKOTL · May 8, 2017

MassHavoc said:
And then you have the people questioning why Darling was moved instead of Crow. That guy gets no respect. Best of luck to Darling. Loved him here but have a feeling they probably overpaid.

Oh, you still do. The bandwagonners are still out in force.

But let's go to the map:

Darling makes 4.15 now. Crawford+Glass is like 6.6. That means If Crawford was moved the incoming piece(s) would have to be less than 1.8 for the 'hawks to break even--assuming Darling+Glass

I really don't think that would have happened--especially before expansion. Crawford would not fetch *only* 1.85M in roster cap--either they'd need a fuckton of sweeteners, or a prospect we wouldn't want to part with--assuming the incoming team would want to swallow over 4M in net minder cap without cap leaving.

As for Darling being overpaid? We'll see. Assuming he plays the way he has for us, it's pretty much in line IMHO. He can tail off, though.

Hawks trade Scott Darling to Carolina

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