Here is my problem with the Trubisky pick ......... LEADERSHIP

policeman said:

Where was that implied in what I wrote?

Let's see the studies that 'prove the existence of leadership'.

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The part where you said it was a myth. I assumed you understand it existed in general but questioned it's existence as it relates to sports. But maybe you don't think it exists at all in which case I underestimated your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Various studies are cited in the below two wiki articles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trait_leadership

"Leadership" is obviously a very real thing.

What's completely not real (except in the minds of dumb meatball fans), is what variables about an individuals personality that makes them a "leader".

remydat said:

It wasn't the team. It was the WRs and only the WRs still on the team because they were asked during the 2016 season about 2015. So basically the guys that still had to catch passes from him backed him at a time when Marquise Williams was no longer on the team so I would take what they say with a grain of salt.

And it wasn't really politics so much as Williams was the incumbent and played well enough that there was no reason for him to lose his job.

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Why didn't they just say the truth then? There is no shame saying that Williams won the job and earned it, but Trubs looked fine when he came in and substituted.

You still throw a bone to your current QB while saying the truth.

The story is that the WRs went to the coach and asked for Trubs to start. Sounds like either true or a whole lot of effort to blow smoke up Trubs ass.

And when dealing with a QB, the most important position players are the WRs and TEs. I don't think that a RB says that he wants Trubs to start because he hands the ball off just right.

JoJoBoxer said:

Why didn't they just say the truth then? There is no shame saying that Williams won the job and earned it, but Trubs looked fine when he came in and substituted.

You still throw a bone to your current QB while saying the truth.

The story is that the WRs went to the coach and asked for Trubs to start. Sounds like either true or a whole lot of effort to blow smoke up Trubs ass.

And when dealing with a QB, the most important position players are the WRs and TEs. I don't think that a RB says that he wants Trubs to start because he hands the ball off just right.

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I'm not saying they didn't tell the truth. I'm saying what they believe to be true may be influenced by the fact they are still there and they are WRs.

Trubiksy is a better passer so the WRs may feel he's a better QB because he helps their numbers. Their primary concern is the passing game. Williams is a better runner to the tune of 948 yards so in terms of the overall team, his being a dual threat and more experienced made him the better choice.

The WRs may not see that because all they care about is who is better at getting them the ball. The coach is looking at it from a bigger picture than the WRs.

Novak said:

"Leadership" is obviously a very real thing.

What's completely not real (except in the minds of dumb meatball fans), is what variables about an individuals personality that makes them a "leader".

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Well I think various studies point to various traits but the issue is the presence of those traits don't guarantee a person will be a leader just as being accurate in college doesn't guarantee accuracy in the NFL.

At the end of the day there's gotta be some sort of mix there but no one really knows the optimal mix hence why the draft is more art than science IMO.

remydat said:

Well I think various studies point to various traits but the issue is the presence of those traits don't guarantee a person will be a leader just as being accurate in college doesn't guarantee accuracy in the NFL.

At the end of the day there's gotta be some sort of mix there but no one really knows the optimal mix hence why the draft is more art than science IMO.

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Jesus Christ will you please stop posting... Even when I agree with what you're saying, I still want to kick you in the fucking mouth.

remydat said:

Well I think various studies point to various traits but the issue is the presence of those traits don't guarantee a person will be a leader just as being accurate in college doesn't guarantee accuracy in the NFL.

At the end of the day there's gotta be some sort of mix there but no one really knows the optimal mix hence why the draft is more art than science IMO.

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Players follow winners. They don't follow losers.

You never hear about how any losing QBs are somehow great leaders.

Seems simple enough, no clue why there's an attempt to make it more difficult than that.

Mongo_76 said:

Jesus Christ will you please stop posting... Even when I agree with what you're saying, I still want to kick you in the fucking mouth.

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That sounds like a personal problem if someone on the net gets to you so much. I for example don't think about you at all.

Novak said:

Players follow winners. They don't follow losers.

You never hear about how any losing QBs are somehow great leaders.

Seems simple enough, no clue why there's an attempt to make it more difficult than that.

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That's not really true though. You hear from time to time about teams enduring losing seasons that don't quit on each other or the season vs teams that do. They may get less press than the winners but it's still talked about.

remydat said:

That's not really true though. You hear from time to time about teams enduring losing seasons that don't quit on each other or the season vs teams that do. They may get less press than the winners but it's still talked about.

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And that's because the QB is a leader...? How do you make that jump?

A team "not quiting on a losing season" would almost always point to a competent staff, not relating to the QB.

Novak said:

And that's because the QB is a leader...? How do you make that jump?

A team "not quiting on a losing season" would almost always point to a competent staff, not relating to the QB.

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I would think it's a reflection on the staff and the leaders on team which may not necessarily be the QB. Not sure how you can attribute it to one or the other as coaches clearly enlist team leaders/captains to help.

Like for the Bears it used to be Urlacher and Kreutz. They definitely helped Lovie keep the team in check even when we were losing IMO.

remydat said:

That's not really true though. You hear from time to time about teams enduring losing seasons that don't quit on each other or the season vs teams that do. They may get less press than the winners but it's still talked about.

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.....wasn't there a game you saw where u said it looked like the N.C, players "quit". was it you that said that?

remydat said:

I would think it's a reflection on the staff and the leaders on team which may not necessarily be the QB. Not sure how you can attribute it to one or the other. Like for the Bears it used to be Urlacher and Kreutz. They definitely helped Lovie keep the team in check even when we were losing IMO.

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So...

Do you have any examples of QBs that were consistently losers, but we're generally regarded as good leaders? Or are you just spit balling here?

Because I can point to several QBs that were winners, didn't possess the typical meatball traits others say a leader needs to have, but were regarded as leaders... because players like playing for (and following) someone that knows how to win

run and shoot said:

.....wasn't there a game you saw where u said it looked like the N.C, players "quit". was it you that said that?

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Yes it was the VT game in the hurricane. But it was one gsme and he was still knew to starting. If he did that next year in college them it would be more problematic IMO.

Novak said:

So...

Do you have any examples of QBs that were consistently losers, but we're generally regarded as good leaders? Or are you just spit balling here?

Because I can point to several QBs that were winners, didn't possess the typical meatball traits others say a leader needs to have, but were regarded as leaders... because players like playing for (and following) someone that knows how to win

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Carr was a pretty good leader in 2014 even though the Raiders sucked his rookie year. Hindsight though is 20/20.

remydat said:

That sounds like a personal problem if someone on the net gets to you so much. I for example don't think about you at all.

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Clearly you do and did think about me, as you responded to me.

And if the point your little mind was trying to make was that you don't think about me when not responding to me, well, I don't think about you either when you're not clogging up threads with useless circular-spun redundant shit.

didshereallysaythat said:

Carr was a pretty good leader in 2014 even though the Raiders sucked his rookie year. Hindsight though is 20/20.

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I see the word "consistently" carries little to no meaning to you..

Then again, you were (are?) a Cutler fan, so this does make sense..

Kyle Long will help Trubisky by being the loud one. Our line in general has the offensive leadership quality, and will set the tone for this teams identity.

Starting with Glennon, they will learn to open up the pass. Creating a space for Trubisky after the inevitable injury, and then failure of Sanchez for a game or two, creating the right timing.

Trubisky is experienced at being a good quiet back-up teammate doing everything right while he waits his turn, earning respect that Cutler never had with his off-season ethic and attitude problems.

Trubisky is a good friend. He supports people. And when given a chance, he always performed well, and hard, and was ready. Was prepared.

I agree.....and the OP has a point, because that quiet wait for his opportunity to SHOW HE IS A LEADER...not act all like one (Like Jamais Winston is over the top for me, and trying so hard to be a guy...an emotional profound man of wisdom and inspiration, that it will eventually wear thin)...but the OP's issues could be the exact reason why it made sense to North Carolina staff to stick with Marquise Williams. He had the locker room. He had the leadership. He was "the guy" and they won 11 straight. Trubs out performed him the week after south carolina loss and they still stuck with Marquise. I think to be fair to op, that is an echo of his sentiment.

I think Trubisky's way fits this team and the back-up position he is starting from. He isn't being handed anything, his preperation and timing will earn him the job and respect.

Merideth, Kyle, the left Guard, the center....maybe Leno....these are the leadership on offense. Probably Morgan when he is ready. Another 4 year LT. like Whitehair. Leaders.


Trubs will be fine. He has a very high floor, and some savant and work ethic qualities that make me happy he is the dice roll they got from this draft. Cost was high, but I would take him over the rest....although Kaaya still tempts me as a 4th or 5th rounder. I think you get a quality dice roll there for very cheap. Still...in terms of potential floor....Trubs would be the pick to save your job.

I would make a wager the Lions end up getting a first, minimum second at some point for Kaaya.

Novak said:

So...

Do you have any examples of QBs that were consistently losers, but we're generally regarded as good leaders? Or are you just spit balling here?

Because I can point to several QBs that were winners, didn't possess the typical meatball traits others say a leader needs to have, but were regarded as leaders... because players like playing for (and following) someone that knows how to win

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What do you mean by consistent losers? Like it's hard to find a QB that lost a fuck ton and still remained a starter but there are certainly QBs that had losing seasons and didn't lose their teams. Guys Like Bernie Kosar, Archie Manning come to mind or even more recently Ryan Fitzpatrick.

And I already said not all leaders need to be vocal or have what I will call the meatball traits so I'm not disagreeing with your second paragraph.

Mongo_76 said:

Clearly you do and did think about me, as you responded to me.

And if the point your little mind was trying to make was that you don't think about me when not responding to me, well, I don't think about you either when you're not clogging up threads with useless circular-spun redundant shit.

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I responded to you because you made a comment addressed to me not because it was you.

I wasn't even talking to you and you felt the need not to debate the point but make a personal comment about me which suggests a level of emo that I could only classify as high school girlish level.