People mad at QB pick, disguise it as anger for the trade-up

cobra302

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Adipost said:
It seems like almost all of the Watson fans are now sporting Trubisky avatars. I was a Kizer guy, but Trubisky was my 2nd choice and I actually expected the Bears to draft him. The reason I debate the issue is because of the over saturation of posts and threads proclaiming Pace is a genius moving up. Whenever something gets out of control positive or negative, I tend to examine the other side of the issue.
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I was a Kizer fan as well. I expected Bears to pick a defensive back or D lineman with #3 pick, then pick Kizer in round 2. I admittedly was angry that they picked Trubisky, as none of these QB's were deemed to be top notch, surefire 1st round pick, whereas the defense could use some major shoring up. But the more I've thought it over, it was a solid, gutsy move. So what that they traded away other picks to get Trub. The Texans & Chiefs came out far worse for lower rated QB's. I'd love to see both Glennon and Trub play lights out, as it'd surely result in more "W"'s than what we've seen the past few years. Until proven otherwise, I'll try to stay optimistic & hope the QB's--and the team--succeed.
 
Warrior Spirit

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bearmick said:
He didn't draft the QB class, he drafted a specific QB he saw as the future. If he didn't see the other QBs the same way, why would he settle for them? None of the positional depth you'd get with these mid round picks even move the meter in terms of impact compared to landing a franchise QB. All that matters is whether Trubisky is the answer or he isn't.
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You can get a lot more than positional depth in the 3rd and 4th. Some of the best players in the league were drafted there.

I just don't know how Pace didn't have a better feel for how the draft would go QB wise. Leading up to the draft, anyone who followed the talk knew what teams were interested in which QB and you also pretty much knew how far they would go to get them. What Texans and Chiefs did came as no surprise. What Pace did came as a big surprise and the reason is because it was known there was no other team willing to reach that far for Trubisky. His actions in the draft and before tell me he just doesn't know what he's doing.

I would have taken a different approach altogether and done as you refer to as draft the QB class. Trade down and see how it falls knowing 1 or 2 of those top 3 will still be available to you and you're going to get more top picks out of the deal.
 
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Spartan said:
What Pace did came as a big surprise and the reason is because it was known there was no other team willing to reach that far for Trubisky.
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Well, no, absolutely nobody whatsoever knew where they were going or to whom. That's the whole point. If Pace had taken your advice and traded down, he could easily have missed out on his QB. That's too important a thing to gamble on. Something tells me you'd have been equally as critical of him anyway, had it gone that way.

Spartan said:
I would have taken a different approach altogether and done as you refer to as draft the QB class. Trade down and see how it falls knowing 1 or 2 of those top 3 will still be available to you
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This just shows that you don't put enough attention to detail into QBs to be an NFL GM. Which isn't an insult; it applies to all of us. You don't just throw a dart at the QB board. You have a specific target based on countless hours of in depth analysis from more angles than any of us even understand.
 
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bearmick said:
Well, no, absolutely nobody whatsoever knew where they were going or to whom. That's the whole point. If Pace had taken your advice and traded down, he could easily have missed out on his QB. That's too important a thing to gamble on.



This just shows that you don't put enough attention to detail into QBs to be an NFL GM. Which isn't an insult; it applies to all of us. You don't just throw a dart at the QB board. You have a specific target based on countless hours of in depth analysis from more angles than any of us even understand.
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Chiefs were always interested in Mahomes and it made perfect sense why. Many absolutely knew they'd make a move for him. Texans were known to like Watson and said they would take him if he fell so... no surprise there either. Maybe people didn't know how far they would trade up but you definitely knew those 2 teams were targeting those 2 QBs.

I admit I didn't have a good feel for which of the 3 had the most potential but I was down on Watson, iffy on Trubisky and most high on Mahomes. That would have given me more room to work with but the Chiefs did trade up further than I was thinking several days before the draft. But about an hour before the draft it was made known they were trying to trade up to the top 10 and I knew it was for Mahomes cause they made it clear for months they had interest in him.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Spartan said:
Chiefs were always interested in Mahomes and it made perfect sense why. Many absolutely knew they'd make a move for him. Texans were known to like Watson and said they would take him if he fell so... no surprise there either. Maybe people didn't know how far they would trade up but you definitely knew those 2 teams were targeting those 2 QBs.

I admit I didn't have a good feel for which of the 3 had the most potential but I was down on Watson, iffy on Trubisky and most high on Mahomes. That would have given me more room to work with but the Chiefs did trade up further than I was thinking several days before the draft. But about an hour before the draft it was made known they were trying to trade up to the top 10 and I knew it was for Mahomes cause they made it clear for months they had interest in him.
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The thing you can't assume though is that just because teams like certain players, it means they don't like other players. The Chiefs liking Mahomes doesn't mean they don't like Trubisky more. They might like Mahomes more, but we will never know because the Bears took Trubisky well before the Chiefs had a realistic chance to move up to.

We will never know just how high (or low) the true demand for Trubisky was, especially with teams in the top 12 going as far back as Cleveland. Also, just because a team in that range might be interested, it doesn't mean they had an offer on the table to the 49ers that was more valuable than what the Bears offered.
 
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didshereallysaythat said:
The thing you can't assume though is that just because teams like certain players, it means they don't like other players. The Chiefs liking Mahomes doesn't mean they don't like Trubisky more. They might like Mahomes more, but we will never know because the Bears took Trubisky well before the Chiefs had a realistic chance to move up to.

We will never know just how high (or low) the true demand for Trubisky was, especially with teams in the top 12 going as far back as Cleveland. Also, just because a team in that range might be interested, it doesn't mean they had an offer on the table to the 49ers that was more valuable than what the Bears offered.
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It was more than interest. There was a feeling, given the state of the QB class that some or even all 3 QBs could fall out of the top 10 and then these teams would definitely go after them.

Several months before the draft you could have envisioned the Niners, Jets and Browns of taking a QB with their first pick but as the draft drew near it was clear the Jets and Niners weren't.

I have no inside info of course but that's exactly just my point. As just a football fan following articles and tweets leading up to the day of the draft, I knew the Bears were the only team with a top 10 pick who were likely to take a QB. I was sure the Niners and Jets weren't taking 1 that high. The only question was would the Browns try to trade up into the top 5 to try and get 1. I kind of blew that off too cause they are much better at accumulating picks than actually putting them to good use. My thinking was as they fell out of the top 10, teams would then scramble for them. Texans would lead the charge for Watson if he was still there. Chiefs would lead the charge for Mahomes who would surely be there. And I felt the Browns and Broncos would lead the charge for Trubisky if he was still there. Nobody was going to move up into the top 5 for Trubisky but if he fell out of the top 10 like Watson, you would have seen several teams move on him.

That was just the feeling I got from all that was reported right up to the draft and, as you see, it's almost exactly as it went. So the point is if a fan can see all that coming, how can a GM not?
 

didshereallysaythat

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Spartan said:
It was more than interest. There was a feeling, given the state of the QB class that some or even all 3 QBs could fall out of the top 10 and then these teams would definitely go after them.

Several months before the draft you could have envisioned the Niners, Jets and Browns of taking a QB with their first pick but as the draft drew near it was clear the Jets and Niners weren't.

I have no inside info of course but that's exactly just my point. As just a football fan following articles and tweets leading up to the day of the draft, I knew the Bears were the only team with a top 10 pick who were likely to take a QB. I was sure the Niners and Jets weren't taking 1 that high. The only question was would the Browns try to trade up into the top 5 to try and get 1. I kind of blew that off too cause they are much better at accumulating picks than actually putting them to good use. My thinking was as they fell out of the top 10, teams would then scramble for them. Texans would lead the charge for Watson if he was still there. Chiefs would lead the charge for Mahomes who would surely be there. And I felt the Browns and Broncos would lead the charge for Trubisky if he was still there. Nobody was going to move up into the top 5 for Trubisky but if he fell out of the top 10 like Watson, you would have seen several teams move on him.

That was just the feeling I got from all that was reported right up to the draft and, as you see, it's almost exactly as it went. So the point is if a fan can see all that coming, how can a GM not?
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Your feeling might have been right on the surface, but for different reasons. Just because Trubisky went 2 and the next QB went 10, doesn't mean Trubisky would have went 10.
 
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The narrative that they got the picks back is completely false and self serving. We just have to wait and see if he was worth it and there will not be instant gratification.
 
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WindyCity said:
Being mad about the Bears finally taking a step towards relevance?

Sad.
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It is sad. You want to know what a lot of dumbass meatball Bears fans think it means to draft a "franchise QB"?

Take a flyer on some project QB between the 3rd and 5th rounds, and draft defense in the first and second round.

They claim they want that franchise QB, but have no fucking clue what it looks like to go and try to get one.


I pray Mitch works out, because if he does, the Bears fans will FINALLY have an example to point to and lean on and a frame of reference, and while the Meatballs won't be any less so, we might be able to snatch some of their kids away from meatballdom, because they will have grown up seeing what it means to draft a franchise QB, so all the stupid QB arguments will die off eventually.
 
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bearmick said:
Well, no, absolutely nobody whatsoever knew where they were going or to whom. That's the whole point. If Pace had taken your advice and traded down, he could easily have missed out on his QB. That's too important a thing to gamble on. Something tells me you'd have been equally as critical of him anyway, had it gone that way.



This just shows that you don't put enough attention to detail into QBs to be an NFL GM. Which isn't an insult; it applies to all of us. You don't just throw a dart at the QB board. You have a specific target based on countless hours of in depth analysis from more angles than any of us even understand.
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Teams value different things. Some like athleticism better, others arm strength, still others accuracy.

When I read Pace's reasons on why Trubisky, it set me at ease, because what Pace valued is seeing a guy who was already doing things that couldn't be taught, and habits that would be really hard to teach that will benefit Mitch in the pros. I think Mitch is going to be successful, but you don't know. You never know, even after a player starts, until the league starts adjusting. The QB is the punch, the league is the counter punch. If your quarterback can then counter the counter, you know you've got a good one.
 

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Toast88 said:
This is something I haven't seen touched on since the draft, although I find it very true.

If you listen to the local talk show hosts, callers and national guys, they largely echo the same point: Yes, the Bears needed a QB for the future, but the Bears gave up way too much. "We don't object to the Bears getting the best quarterback in the class. We object to them giving up so many picks, especially when maybe they didn't need to in order to get Trubisky" they all are saying.

I call bullshit. When you see Bears fans negative reactions and you have them recount what they were thinking throughout the process, they all say, "When Goodell announced Trubisky I (fill in the blank)".

This disproves their assertion that it's about giving up the picks for them, not about the Bears getting a QB. I've heard very few Bears fans, analysts, etc., say, "When Goodell announced the tradeup, I was so angry." This speaks volumes.

I believe this shows Bears fans, by and large, have become battered women. They've been beaten around so much by the franchise that there's some psychological satisfaction in being deficient at the QB position, just as the Bears have been their whole life. These people don't want to take any chances on a QB, because then that means there's a chance they might lose their comforting status as a starved fan base.

Why do women go back to their abusive boyfriends? Why do Bears fans always come back to the franchise.

They can't admit this, though, not even to themselves.

They weren't mad at the pick until Trubisky was picked and not before. Their own stories prove this, even as they pretend to deny it. Mark my words, if that pick had been some fucking rando O-lineman, these meatball jackasses would've loved it.

Run away as soon as you can, Mitch. You were there as fans booed you as you were introduced at the United Center. This fan base doesn't deserve a good QB. Hell, they don't even want one.
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No it was the trade up. Of course people will always disagree about everything, But I promise less people will be mad if they stayed at 3 and picked Trubisky (if he was still there).

But in the same argument if was picked by another team at #2 people would be bitching has Pace let his guy get away again and pissed that he didn't trade up one spot.
 
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bearmick said:
He didn't draft the QB class, he drafted a specific QB he saw as the future. If he didn't see the other QBs the same way, why would he settle for them? None of the positional depth you'd get with these mid round picks even move the meter in terms of impact compared to landing a franchise QB. All that matters is whether Trubisky is the answer or he isn't.
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You are absolutely right, but I think we may be minimizing what Pace actually gave up to move up one spot. As was pointed out in an article posted here today, SF used the Bears 4th(#111) to move back into the 1st round. The Bears could have done the same. Also, the Bears could have used the future 3rd to trade up from #67 and still draft ShAheen. So the Bears basically traded a TJ Watt/Reuben Foster/Ryan Ramczyk/Cam Robinson/Kevin King/Malik McDowell to move up one spot.
 

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Adipost said:
You are absolutely right, but I think we may be minimizing what Pace actually gave up to move up one spot. As was pointed out in an article posted here today, SF used the Bears 4th(#111) to move back into the 1st round. The Bears could have done the same. Also, the Bears could have used the future 3rd to trade up from #67 and still draft ShAheen. So the Bears basically traded a TJ Watt/Reuben Foster/Ryan Ramczyk/Cam Robinson/Kevin King/Malik McDowell to move up one spot.
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Yep. They could have made a trade to move back into the first round and still got a quarterback while still keeping their 3rd round pick whoever that would have been.
 
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The Hawk said:
Yep. They could have made a trade to move back into the first round and still got a quarterback they didn't want while still keeping their 3rd round pick whoever that would have been.
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fify
 
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The Hawk said:
Yep. They could have made a trade to move back into the first round and still got a quarterback while still keeping their 3rd round pick whoever that would have been.
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Good thing Pace didn't fuck up and do that! We would of ended up with Adams and Nathan Peterman. A top 10-15 safety and a backup QB <<<<<<< a Franchise QB.
 

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Sagbear said:
No it was the trade up. Of course people will always disagree about everything, But I promise less people will be mad if they stayed at 3 and picked Trubisky (if he was still there).

But in the same argument if was picked by another team at #2 people would be bitching has Pace let his guy get away again and pissed that he didn't trade up one spot.
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I think that few people really care a lick about the trade-up. I sure don't and I didn't like the pick at all. I think a lot of Bear's fans did not like Trubisky with their first pick. I think a lot of fans wanted someone else as the pick or wanted the Bears to trade down not up and get more draft picks. This certainly is what I wanted because this team going into the draft was a shitty team that needed a lot and I thought that QB was a total crap-shoot. For those who are predicting greatness for Trubisky, I think that you are going to be very disappointed but you could be right. I think that Watson was/is the best NFL ready qb in the draft. But I could be wrong.
 
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