Line ideas: 2017-18

Diehardfan said:

Goaltending wasn't much of an issue last year and while Crawford's contract at one point was pretty gaudy...it's pretty much in line with what he provides right now. The Hawks defense which not all that long ago was skilled, quick and mobile and while they did little hitting and crease protection...they always seemed to find a way to get the puck out of danger. Now....the skills are eroding and they are no longer quick or mobile....they are now slow and they still don't hit or protect the crease. That is where the trouble lies...and it is a very large trouble spot.

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2014 was the only year we can really say Crawford wasn't worth 6M when actually making 6M. 2015 he was money enough to win a Jennings behind the worst D (at the time) since 1989. 2016? He carried the team's carcasses along with Kane and Panarin behind the de facto worst D since 1989. This year? not as bad as 2014 behind a slightly better D than 2016.

Meanwhile Hjammer is the only one worth a squirt of piss in the back end. Keith was last Keith in the 2015 playoffs, has been trending down to complete lobotomy mode in the 2017 playoffs. Seabs got old and slow hitting a low in 2016, and wasn't much after better but unlike Keith, showed some Hockey IQ.

IMHO until the 'hawks can reload the D and get someone to help Hjammer in the backend, Crawford might be the saving grace; He's proven he can bail the core out, He won't get more expensive (like Darling), and he's proven he can at least give the O a fighting chance...even with just Kane and Panarin carrying the O.

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But it's just so easy to see the guy standing in front of the net being responsible for all the goals scored, and all the goals scored being responsible for all the losses, hence transitive property of all the losers are because of the guy in front of the net... burn the witch, burn him! Anyone who thinks this team sucks now, and could get fixed easily with a few tweaks... are absolutely fooling themselves if they think dumping Crawford is part of that.

MassHavoc said:

But it's just so easy to see the guy standing in front of the net being responsible for all the goals scored, and all the goals scored being responsible for all the losses, hence transitive property of all the losers are because of the guy in front of the net... burn the witch, burn him! Anyone who thinks this team sucks now, and could get fixed easily with a few tweaks... are absolutely fooling themselves if they think dumping Crawford is part of that.

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Bingo. The only way a team can with average netminding is stellar D--something we had in spades in 2010. Even though the personnel were the same, times have changed and all of our D but Hjammer are on the wrong side of 30 now. That's something a lot of people haven't, or simply won't consider. 2017 Keith couldn't even sniff the jock of 2010 Keith--he was closer to 2011 Keith. Seabs is a lot older and slower than even the 2015 Seabs, much less the 2013 or 2010 Seabs.

So, getting rid of Crawford--the guy who carried Keith and Seabrook's carcasses in 2016, even for some cap (likely no more than 3M in cap savings total). Which goalie out there making peanuts can make or beat Crawford's 2016 year? I'm not seeing it with the netminder market as-is. Or, who can we get for 3M who can be a prime Keith or even a prime Hjammer and soak up a fuckton of minutes, is money in the backened and can shelter a unknown netminder, and drive possession from the backened? I'm not seeing that either.

Why I think Crawford might be the saving grace even if we lose a D-core member not named Hjammer.

The trading Crawford talk clearly ended weeks ago now since Darling is gone.

I know it was said last year too but if Kempny Seabs remains a thing next year, we won't have am NHL rookie playing with Seabs as his main partner hopefully... then again it'll probably wind up like him with Forsling all year who is mostly still rookieish

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ClydeLee said:

The trading Crawford talk clearly ended weeks ago now since Darling is gone.

I know it was said last year too but if Kempny Seabs remains a thing next year, we won't have am NHL rookie playing with Seabs as his main partner hopefully... then again it'll probably wind up like him with Forsling all year who is mostly still rookieish

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There are still some on the interwebs advocating trading him.

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apparently Fleurry waived his NMC so the penguins can protect Murray. People still think the washington connection of the GM have them taking the Holtby backup as their goalie, but there will be some moves made up to and during the expansion draft next week the NMC waiving had to be done by yesterday. Tough for Fleurry to win the cup and pack the same night. We wont know the list til the 18th, then they are waiting to do the announcement of the Vegas pick at the NHL awards show, so I am sure much will be leaked but reality is the 21st.

HawkWriter said:

Good chance that Campbell is a member of the Blackhawks next year...in the front office somewhere. He wants to play another year but not looking like the Blackhawks are going to be the team that gives him that chance on the ice.

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http://www.tsn.ca/blackhawks-d-campbell-joins-front-office-1.806454

Weird...it's like I knew or something...

Getting rid of a top three goalie in the league is asinine. Yeah, he has some warts but over a season, they do not win the amount of games that they did last season and before.

Next season is going to be interesting from a team chemistry standpoint. I do not think that Kane is happy to see his guy get traded and they need to keep Kaner happy. I also saw that Toews talked about Hossa not being done as a player and having a lot left. It is not a done deal that the Hoss won' play next season. I wouldn't doubt that his skin malady will find a treatment and/or therapy. Perhaps they wait and see how this comes together next season and see if Hoss doesn't come in mid-season to give them a big shot of adrenaline.

The Hawk said:

Getting rid of a top three goalie in the league is asinine. Yeah, he has some warts but over a season, they do not win the amount of games that they did last season and before.

Next season is going to be interesting from a team chemistry standpoint. I do not think that Kane is happy to see his guy get traded and they need to keep Kaner happy. I also saw that Toews talked about Hossa not being done as a player and having a lot left. It is not a done deal that the Hoss won' play next season. I wouldn't doubt that his skin malady will find a treatment and/or therapy. Perhaps they wait and see how this comes together next season and see if Hoss doesn't come in mid-season to give them a big shot of adrenaline.

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Assuming you're talking about Dr. Craw, Top-3 might be high. Since 2006 though, he's solidly top/10 or in the top 66.7 percentile depending on the weeding factor. No matter how you slice it though, he's been way more good than bad.

Goaltending this coming season doesn't bother me. Maybe if Crawford goes down, but I'm more concerned with the D at this point and getting Toews sparkplugged.

It was clear when Darling was asked to be the guy that there is a difference between getting jazzed for a few spot starts or a couple in a row, but carrying the torch is something else entirely.

Crawford has been a better professional than we could have ever imagined. He stays. There are some bad signs now and again, but he knows what he is and he works at it. Build the defense back up, and that may take 1-3 years. Which sucks...if you feel like the defense is top 10 and we still can't get it done with Crow....and its been another couple seasons...it may be time to consider. But in this financial market, we are committed to riding his wake, and he earned that and then some. Been awesome for us.

The Hawk said:

Getting rid of a top three goalie in the league is asinine. Yeah, he has some warts but over a season, they do not win the amount of games that they did last season and before.

Next season is going to be interesting from a team chemistry standpoint. I do not think that Kane is happy to see his guy get traded and they need to keep Kaner happy. I also saw that Toews talked about Hossa not being done as a player and having a lot left. It is not a done deal that the Hoss won' play next season. I wouldn't doubt that his skin malady will find a treatment and/or therapy. Perhaps they wait and see how this comes together next season and see if Hoss doesn't come in mid-season to give them a big shot of adrenaline.

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I dont think it has anything to do with finding a treatment, therapy or cure, its Hoss wanting to deal with all the side effects and trouble he has over these past years for a measly million dollars. Thats the bottom line. Yes, his cap hit is 3.6 million but Hossa is just getting 1 million. Maybe he sees this as a way to get his paycheck back where it belongs too.

anotheridiot said:

I dont think it has anything to do with finding a treatment, therapy or cure, its Hoss wanting to deal with all the side effects and trouble he has over these past years for a measly million dollars. Thats the bottom line. Yes, his cap hit is 3.6 million but Hossa is just getting 1 million. Maybe he sees this as a way to get his paycheck back where it belongs too.

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I disagree. I think that it is all about the treatment. It the shit he is going through is anything like the shingles which it really sounds like, the pain and discomfort is maddening for even the toughest of them all to put up with.

anotheridiot said:

I dont think it has anything to do with finding a treatment, therapy or cure, its Hoss wanting to deal with all the side effects and trouble he has over these past years for a measly million dollars. Thats the bottom line. Yes, his cap hit is 3.6 million but Hossa is just getting 1 million. Maybe he sees this as a way to get his paycheck back where it belongs too.

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I doubt anyone except Hossa and his immediate family knows what he wants--certainly not us message board posters, who are the hockey equivalent of air conditioner ballast.

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Going back to Hossa.......Is it true that we have never seen a Jorah Mormount and Marion Hossa pictured together?

The Hawk said:

Going back to Hossa.......Is it true that we have never seen a Jorah Mormount and Marion Hossa pictured together?

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Your obsession with Jorah Mormont is getting creepy af

Ares said:

Your obsession with Jorah Mormont is getting creepy af

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You of all people to talk about being creepy?

Raskolnikov said:

It was clear when Darling was asked to be the guy that there is a difference between getting jazzed for a few spot starts or a couple in a row, but carrying the torch is something else entirely.

Crawford has been a better professional than we could have ever imagined. He stays. There are some bad signs now and again, but he knows what he is and he works at it. Build the defense back up, and that may take 1-3 years. Which sucks...if you feel like the defense is top 10 and we still can't get it done with Crow....and its been another couple seasons...it may be time to consider. But in this financial market, we are committed to riding his wake, and he earned that and then some. Been awesome for us.

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Our D has been bottom-10 since 2015.

LordKOTL said:

Our D has been bottom-10 since 2015.

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Yes. So I don't want to see life without Crow.

I want to see Keith placed with the right compliment to his style, not asked to be Thor himself and do everything. He is an unbalanced player and should be played with somebody who brings aspects to the table he does not. Speed, defense, blocks, size... Perhaps Murphy or Forsling are that guy?

Saad-Toews-Panik
Hartman-Smaltz-Kane
Hayden-AA-Sharp
Fortin-Kero-Hino

Keith-Murphy
Forsling-Seabrooke
Kempny-Rozy/Pokka/Gus

This is almost a question...ktl? Is Keith + Murphy viable or would Keith and Forsling be possible?


looking at those 4th lines and 3rd pairings and we might have some real poopy cocka games this year when any top 6 guy is out, or god forbid Keith, or the back-up goaltender....we might see some results we haven't seen in a while.

I think landing the 7th or 8th seed is going to be all the challenge this team can make, and hopefully if we get in the playoffs some young guys are shooting stars at the right time and give this squad some unexpected fortification.

Bondra, Fortin, Debricat, Knott, Sekura, Louis, Baun, Lacopelli, Jurco. are some guys in the system still with potential to elevate their game.


the issue to me is Kane and Toews are not the type that you can just plug young talent into the line and have it click, especially in the playoffs. The point of this thread was "line science" and isn't about having the top 6 figured out. Its about finding balance.

Saad, Hayden, Hartman should be fits to lines 1 and 2. They can take some pressure off Toews to do the dirty, create, and defend all at once. Smaltz or Debricat aren't going to solve that even if they slot there on a typical team.

My sense of how this year will shake out...

Hayden-Toews-Panik
Saad-AA-Kane
Hartman-Smaltz-Sharp
Tootoo/Bondra-Kero/Hayden-Fortin/Jurco/Hino


Could be possible to see Hayden/Hartman flipped there, and anybodies guess for 4th line.

I guess if we got 4th line problems, and 3rd pairing problems, it will help us filter through the youth better than in the past.

haha..

funny quote from Q we already knew.

“Every day you write down different combinations. You look at probability, the likelihood of who will be compatible with who,” Quenneville said during the convention via CSN Chicago. “So I think it will be fun trying to go through that process, not just on paper, but when you get them together and out there playing. We certainly have a lot of options up front.”

haha. every day line science. Q is already on it.

so we know nothing is a given. Several options will be looked at.

Saad/Hartman/Sharp/Smaltz are front runners for top 6 play.

Hayden/Fortin may get shots and anyone else capable of playing their way into the conversation, like outside shot guys should include Hino who has shown he can finish at every level and could probably escape negative visibility with the right linemates.

The Hawk said:

You of all people to talk about being creepy?

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Yes, me of all people, you crusty old pedo