Line ideas: 2017-18

Raskolnikov

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While its fresh, lets put down some thoughts on the subject from what we just saw.

I really want to get Toews going, I think our only chance is to do some mathmatical balancing, look at what won championships (Bickell/Kane, Buff/Kane).

I believe Crawford is good enough except against the Preds, and maybe would have issues against Penguins side to side game.
It takes great offense to beat him. A healthy lightning, wild, tarasenko and the Sedin twins have given us problems.

I think this is Anaheims last gasp.

I'll get to a point, ...The Blackhawks should seperate Panarin and Kane. Let them use what they have learned less often, making the power play less familiar to teams and more dangerous. You can always use that change-up, but in the future I think it should be the exception as we prepare for a playoffs where they don't mesh well. Regular season is cool and breezy, but they don't go together in the playoffs. Kane is on the first line. Don't pretend. I believe he should be with Panik.

1st Line. Panik-Smaltz-Kane (I think the best use of Smaltz is to turn the ice with the guys around him and keep him on offense or mostly in need of stopping the break/counterattack on defense. His speed and offense and skill mesh well, Panik is the most physical/skill guy we have, and Kane ain't soft, turn Smaltz around, those skilled forwards don't necessarily need a true center, and Smaltz opens up the ice. But Panik is a net front guy.
Panarin-AA-(Hayden/Hartman/Hossa...really have we tried AA and Hossa at some point? lets take a longer look...Panarin/Healthy AA would be plenty to carry a line 2 ways with the right partner, find the right partner, all 3 guys bring a physical element to them, with two way potential, its not hard to play with Panarin, let him create more random offense without Kane to rely on)
(Hayden/Hartman)-Toews-(Hayden/Hartman/Hossa/Bondra/Debricat/Motte/Baun/Forslin/Hinostroza)

The biggest thing of all may be, that a rested Toews is a better Toews, and a scary Toews. Whatever the reason, training or age or miles, the guy needs early rest. Move him to third for his own good, and have a fresher Toews in the playoffs. Let Smaltz be an engine with guys that don't need nothing from nobody to score with ease...give Kane a fast target and some protection, a net skill guy...damn...I'm telling you. This fits better for Kane. Those guys can shoot, and each have a flavor for Kane to toy with. Panarin is a fun long muzzle musket, thats a fun game, save it for the power play. Their back and forth game was predictable half way through 2015-16.

Those are my most likely candidates with Shalunov reported to be in KHL at least 3 more seasons. Will be fun to play out, but we have seen this core structure fizzle out badly two times in playoffs. I would roll the slot machine and try some drastic things. Maybe being on the third line will really piss off Toews. May we be so lucky.


(I guess I am overlooking face-offs on line one a bit, so maybe you do this but you work out a strategy to give Smaltz short shifts, and overlap Panarin, AA, Toews into Kane ice time as much as possible.
 

anotheridiot

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There were plenty of times last year when Q put Toews between Panarin and Kane and I dont remember them doing much.

AA will be fine if he gets healthy again. Never healed, never got back to form.

As far as third line for Toews, that just wont happen. Didnt they try to leave Hossa on the third line most if not all year? Hossa had a nice season despite that demotion but how good could it have been?
 

Ares

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10.5M for a 3C.... idk bout dis one Rask
 

LordKOTL

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There were plenty of times last year when Q put Toews between Panarin and Kane and I dont remember them doing much.

AA will be fine if he gets healthy again. Never healed, never got back to form.

As far as third line for Toews, that just wont happen. Didnt they try to leave Hossa on the third line most if not all year? Hossa had a nice season despite that demotion but how good could it have been?

Well, he didn't have Toews dragging him down (oh no he dint!!!!!) :hawkstroll::hawkstroll:

I agree with AA, you could tell he was still injured and it didn't help that both Kane and Panarin were prima donnas out there--looking for the perfect, highlight reel play or shooting it right into Rinne's crest (there was some shares of 2012 back there, except Rinne is not Mike Smith--like Greg Luganis without the HIV).

As for Toews, it speaks volumes if Panik dents the twine more than he did. Not to mention him being ragdolled in the corners which is very un-Toews like.

Here's how I see it, though--lines that look decent on paper before the Q-O-Matic 76 gets turned on:

Kane was within striking distance of the Art Ross trophy with also-ran players back in 2015. Ergo, it's proof positive that, like a true 10.5M player, he doesn't need to be boosted by linemates.

Hossa is still one of the best defensive FWDs in the game in spite of being Methuselah.

Thus, you have Kane and Anisimov anchor line 2. I don't think it matters who their LW is. Yeah, Ani sucks at draws, but he goes to the net and Kane can dent the twine. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to produce.

For line 1--I think you go with Panarin/Toews/Panik. Panik can get at least 20. Panarin can get at least 30. Toews would have no excuses; he'd have quality linemates. He'd be able to win draws as well.

Keep Hoss on the 3rd line and have him do what he does best. Even with an offensive black hole like Kruger, he's still dangerous. That should give enough scoring balance and D-form-FWD balance to put the onus right back on the D. Then you get shock collars for Keith and Seabs--every time Seabs overplays his ability to get back, or Keith decides to camp out at the side of the net away from any shooting/passing lane, or Keith makes one of his patented NHL 11 Pass-to-Nowheres, you give them a shot of the juice as a behavioral correction.
 

MassHavoc

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hqdefault.jpg

Here are your 2017-2018 lines.
 

anotheridiot

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I just go back to last year again. Q put Panarin with Toews quite a bit as well and it just did not work. Yeah, I guess it all comes back to Toews not having his type of year. I dont know how many concussions a center can get before it effects him overall.

Panarin makes the most sense since he can dangle the puck by himself when Toews and Panik both want to get to the net, but a steal and its an odd man rush the other way. I think the Hoss mentality is rubbing off on these guys, watching Panarin and Kane dog down the puck after they turned it over like Hoss after one of his, but you still have to get someone on the ice that is going to punish the teams that punish our finesse guys. Kane has manned up alot more last year. I saw him going to the boards more and even check. But again, thats as much as his game as that huge check Keith laid in game 4. Usually means he is not being elusive with the puck.
 

LordKOTL

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hqdefault.jpg

Here are your 2017-2018 lines.

KKKKKYEAH!!!!!!
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I just go back to last year again. Q put Panarin with Toews quite a bit as well and it just did not work. Yeah, I guess it all comes back to Toews not having his type of year. I dont know how many concussions a center can get before it effects him overall.

Panarin makes the most sense since he can dangle the puck by himself when Toews and Panik both want to get to the net, but a steal and its an odd man rush the other way. I think the Hoss mentality is rubbing off on these guys, watching Panarin and Kane dog down the puck after they turned it over like Hoss after one of his, but you still have to get someone on the ice that is going to punish the teams that punish our finesse guys. Kane has manned up alot more last year. I saw him going to the boards more and even check. But again, thats as much as his game as that huge check Keith laid in game 4. Usually means he is not being elusive with the puck.
1st off...concussions haven't seemed to have slowed Crosby much. I don't think Toews issues are Concussion related. Paleo-diet related? maybe.

Kane did man up a lot last year...mainly 'cause he had to. He's the least of my worries, though. My only real knock against him and :panarin was trying for the perfect play in the playoffs, rather than going ugly. Unfortunately this isn't 2013 where the skill is there in spaces and it doesn't matter what physicality the opposition tries to bring; they were just too skilled. Now--not so much. I think that cap constraints may mean we can't get the personnel that can play a 2010, 2013, or even a 2015 game. Further, the core we had in 2010,, 2013, and 2015 may not be able to play that way any more. That doesn't mean their worthless, however. The logical answer is to change the gameplan to fit the players you have in the, not try to fit the square peg in the round hole.
 

anotheridiot

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Sounds like the hawks are shopping Anisimov. Big move for the front office and Bowman who pined for this guy for a while. Anisimov gave the hawks what Kane and Panarin needed, a big center to go to the net. But a face off percentage in the playoffs of probably 10% even though he was not right might be too much to pencil him in as 2C. I think Schmaltz will get there, just dont know if its this year.

Looking like Toews, Schmaltz, Kero and Rasmussen might be the centers going into next season.

If they are shopping Anisimov its probably for a goalie or D man so one down from the opportunity to take Soup and Johnnys spots.
 

LordKOTL

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Sounds like the hawks are shopping Anisimov. Big move for the front office and Bowman who pined for this guy for a while. Anisimov gave the hawks what Kane and Panarin needed, a big center to go to the net. But a face off percentage in the playoffs of probably 10% even though he was not right might be too much to pencil him in as 2C. I think Schmaltz will get there, just dont know if its this year.

Looking like Toews, Schmaltz, Kero and Rasmussen might be the centers going into next season.

If they are shopping Anisimov its probably for a goalie or D man so one down from the opportunity to take Soup and Johnnys spots.

I've only heard this from Ecklund--who is not to be trusted. The National Enquirer is more credible.
 

RacerX

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Sounds like the hawks are shopping Anisimov. Big move for the front office and Bowman who pined for this guy for a while. Anisimov gave the hawks what Kane and Panarin needed, a big center to go to the net. But a face off percentage in the playoffs of probably 10% even though he was not right might be too much to pencil him in as 2C. I think Schmaltz will get there, just dont know if its this year.

Looking like Toews, Schmaltz, Kero and Rasmussen might be the centers going into next season.

If they are shopping Anisimov its probably for a goalie or D man so one down from the opportunity to take Soup and Johnnys spots.

Not pretty, I have to believe that's one of the worst foursome of centers in the entire league and I don't see how they win any playoff series with those guys, even if JT returns to form.
 

HawkWriter

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I think the real question here is...what will the lines look like in 2020? Please discuss...

Draft, expansion draft, trades, free agency, and more still to come...
 

LordKOTL

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I think the real question here is...what will the lines look like in 2020? Please discuss...

Draft, expansion draft, trades, free agency, and more still to come...

The only Quasi-guarantees are Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Anisimov, and Crawford:
I think all of them are still here, realistically.

Hossa might Pronger himself. But, if he's still viable he'll still be playing.

I think the 'hawks will ride Crawford for the duration: Even this past year he was around his career average which was around the bottom level of the top 3rd of the league since 2005. Even if Darling has a higher ceiling you're looking at an average through this era of hockey of about maybe 9 starters better and 21 worse. That's still pretty damned good and unlikely that we'd develop another netminder to at least Darling's level over the next 3 years.

Anisimov has an NMC. Moving might not be an option. However he might be the long-term NMC guy who does go.

Seabs will have 4 years left. I don't think he gets moved outside of a windfall move to a team looking to hit the cap floor.

Keith will have 3 years left and is a recapture risk.

Toews and Kane will have 3 left. Kane IMHO will likley be good still. Toews? I dunno. He could re-surpass Kane, or the bottom could fall out if he doesn't get off that paleodiet.

For the Rockford sect, we have Debrincat, Highmore, Noel, Snuggie, Knott, and Fortin. I think Debrincat and Fortin are up with the big club.

For those not signed through, but on our roster:

Panarin: Likley gone. Cap casualty--possibly a TDL trade in '19.
Kruger: Likely gone this offseason.
Panik: Could possible resign *if* he doesn't completely break out. Otherwise could be a TDL trade in '19.
Hayden: Probably still here...might get is 1st deal in the 1-2M range unless he breaks out.
Schmaltz: Like Hayden--if be breaks out he's gone. If he's decent we likley retain in the 1-2M range.
Hartman: Another maybe. Depends on his next deal.
Hino: probably gone
Tootoo: Gone
Dej: Gone
Ras & Jurco: probably gone but might be hear as cheap depth.
Hjammer: Would be a miracle if we could afford his next deal, considering he's been our best D-man when playing defense for a few years running.
Forsling: Probably here
TVR: Probably gone--even this offseason.
Campbell: Gone
Oduya: Gone
Rosie: Gone
Glass: Probably gone.
Sveddy: Gone
Baun: Probably gone, but might be resigned as cheap depth
Mash, Johansson, Lundberg, Labrie, and Carruth are probably gone. The rest might be resigned as cheap depth or gone.
 

Raskolnikov

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our system stresses out centers. Vermette didn't like it. Teuvo couldn't do it. Toews gets worn down. Kruger gets chewed up.

If they are shopping AA with a NMC then it might be mutual or the request came from AA, tired of doing all the dirty work for mini-me to he left, and mini-me to his right, getting hurt and then who knows how he felt about being played hurt, and how they felt about his will to play and him giving up against Nashville.
 

Raskolnikov

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10.5M for a 3C.... idk bout dis one Rask

My mistake, he is still young and just needs to eat meat. I rethought it and find this better. I was hesitant to split up AA and Panarin due to the language assist.

Panik-Smaltz-Kane
Panarin-Toews-Hayden
Hartman-AA-Hossa
Motte-Hino-Ras-Kruger-Baun-Debricat-Bondra etc.


I mean...I guess the issue is this will price Panik out of our reach. So keep him held down with Toews I guess, keep it all the same, and have no real good solution for Hossa, Panarin, Smaltz come playoff time.

I'm still pissed that we didn't sniff one of the most explosive lines, the H-H-H line to get Hossa going in playoffs. Or even try Hayden with youth and 6'3" 225 fucking lbs leading the team in hits during his blackhawk tenure. Q was stubborn in these playoffs and played old man favorites. He didn't do anybody any favors with that except embarrass us all.
 

puckthefackers

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Rask, can u expound on the system stressing out centers? I consider my a knowledgeable fan but I never played competitively and was curious about your comment.
 

winos5

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Rask, can u expound on the system stressing out centers? I consider my a knowledgeable fan but I never played competitively and was curious about your comment.

He'll have to do some bong hits first....
 

Raskolnikov

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I was taught on this forum that our system has alot of responsibility on centers. They seem to get hurt or tired. Vermette didn't seem like he liked it and almost got benched before injury opportunity gave hims a second chance in the playoffs.

Kruger always gets hurt. Toews complains of tiredness at 28 and started declining at 26. Teuvo, Hino, Kero, Smatlz, McNeil and all the young guys we have tried to slot there of late didn't seem to be able to do it, and so we had to trade for AA, who now they want to trade or move to 3C presumably.

Plus we are shipping out Kruger a year after finally paying him. All year we are like...are we going to lose TVR or Kruger? Now the Hawks are like...

You have to ask Clyde or DMelt or some of the others who can give you a detailed responsibility answer, its just something I have gathered from listening to them and seeing the effects on the team and search sifting through many youngins.

It just seems to me we don't have 4 starting caliber NHL centers because we want them to be

1. fast
2. physical
3. skate like Nancy Kerrigan
4. go to net
5. shoot like a sniper
6. pass the puck
7. Defend savant, forecheck, stick and move people

and a bunch of guys have some of those traits but not all and they don't make it here.

The two guys who probably could have, Danult and Teuvo I still just don't get why they are gone. The price of moving someone with cerebral palsy making 5 million for Teuvo. Danult for a rental was stupid, disrupted our chemistry and cost us badly this year and next.
 

HawkWriter

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The two guys who probably could have, Danult and Teuvo I still just don't get why they are gone. The price of moving someone with cerebral palsy making 5 million for Teuvo. Danult for a rental was stupid, disrupted our chemistry and cost us badly this year and next.

I mean...so much wrong but, really?
 

anotheridiot

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This latest rumor of the hawks pushing the knights to take TVR and Krueger, one picked, one traded makes no sense. TVR was the one d man that actually played last year. Sounds like they are selling future yet again. Krueger can go either way, Kero can cover his spot now. At least we dont have to hear about Kruegers visa issues yet again and missing time in chicago.
 

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