IST: Cubs vs Cardinals

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,815
cubs-cards-logos.svg


Friday June 2 1:20 CDT
Lynne (4-3, 2.93 ERA) vs Lackey (4-5, 5.18 ERA)

Saturday June 3 1:20 CDT
Leake (5-3, 2.24 ERA) vs Lester (3-3, 3.86 ERA)

Sunday June 4 6:35 CDT
Wacha (2-3, 3.99 ERA) vs, Hendricks (4-3, 3.75 ERA)
 
anotheridiot

anotheridiot

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 15, 2016
Posts:
5,935
Liked Posts:
799
Pretty interesting how they demoted Grichuk all the way down to A ball for pitch recognition.
 
chibears55

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,924
Getting a bit aggravated with Maddon here..
You got 2 guys sitting on bench that been hitting pretty much all year in Almora and Jay that he can play and lead off with..
But no he continues to put struggling bats there..
Happ 50 AB rookie hasn't done anything in over a week and he down to .210..
So you go with him there?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
chibears55

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,924
Did Lackey give Fowler a meatball pitch to hit out..
Fukn Lackey, wish he'd go away

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
chibears55

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,924
Just noticed the Avg for Maddon 7 8 9 1 hitters

Schwarber .163
Russell .214
Pitcher
Happ .205

Seriously, how much offense are we expected to get out of that when they go around the order?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

PickSix

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 9, 2015
Posts:
2,674
Liked Posts:
1,459
Theo better be trying to lock this Wade Davis up for a few more years.
 
chibears55

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,924
Been chewing on this today, what your thoughts..

Thinking about two separate trades they could consider next month..

1. If by then they still don't have production from the lead off spot, maybe they look at the lesser teams and make a deal for a lead off type CFer..

2. Use Almora in a deal that could bring in a SP

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
chibears55 said:
Been chewing on this today, what your thoughts..

Thinking about two separate trades they could consider next month..

1. If by then they still don't have production from the lead off spot, maybe they look at the lesser teams and make a deal for a lead off type CFer..

2. Use Almora in a deal that could bring in a SP

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

They do need a starting pitcher. They do not need a CF.

Almora would be a toss in on a trade. If they were going to go this route then they should go all in IMO. And to justify it they have to be in the play off hunt vs trying to get into the hunt.

Just reality. This team is missing more than 1 spark plug. If it was just 1 SP to replace Butler and shift the line up down then I would be all in. But right now the team has to prove it is ready to contend "before" they make a ground breaking deal.

I would personally target Cole. Pitt loses him in 2020. That would be 2 years of control. Basically a deal like the Cubs did for Garza. So you would expect 2 prime return pieces with 1-2 mid range guys.

If it was me I would send over Baez and Almora. Add to that I would also send over Underwood and Jeimer Candelario.

Now I'm expecting some scoffs here and there but Pitt would get 2 Premium MLB defenders at a young age with a MLB ready 3B and a AA SP that fell out. Now if they wanted up up Underwood to Clifton or Cease they should demand Adam Frazier who covers 2B/SS.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
But my thought on this is they are going to play Happ and Schwarber every day. They have Zobrist under contract 18:$16M, 19:$12M
full no-trade protection for 2016-18
limited no-trade protection for 2019 (may block deals to 8 clubs)

He will retire a Cub.

So when he is due to retire Eloy should be on the roster. Most Likely will be on the team in 2019 and will push Zobrist to the bench and Heyward to CF and Happ to 2B.

Thinking of it that way losing Baez and replacing him with a UI and pushing Happ to CF full time is what they are doing. That leaves both Almora and Baez open for trade.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Some info:

Cole: 1.6 WAR (Doesn't include today)
Archer: .9 WAR
Harvey: .2 WAR (Doesn't include today)
Gray: .2 WAR
Quintana: -.5 WAR


Lester: .4 WAR
Arrieta: -.3 WAR
Lackey: -.2 WAR (Doesn't include today)
Hendricks: .8
Butler: .1

Hendricks is the staff leader in WAR at .8. Cole is the biggest improvement there. Q would be a buy low option if the Sox want a quick return on him vs waiting for this value to peak again.

So those are some of the names to look at. Q really is not peaking right now and I'm doubting that the sox sell low unless it is in a deal for Schwarber where both are at low value and the Sox take another player in the deal.
 
chibears55

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,924
CSF77 said:
But my thought on this is they are going to play Happ and Schwarber every day. They have Zobrist under contract 18:$16M, 19:$12M
full no-trade protection for 2016-18
limited no-trade protection for 2019 (may block deals to 8 clubs)

He will retire a Cub.

So when he is due to retire Eloy should be on the roster. Most Likely will be on the team in 2019 and will push Zobrist to the bench and Heyward to CF and Happ to 2B.

Thinking of it that way losing Baez and replacing him with a UI and pushing Happ to CF full time is what they are doing. That leaves both Almora and Baez open for trade.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't surprise me if by 2019 half these position players won't be cubs..

I think there only 2 guys that are their untouchables and that Rizzo and Bryant..
Contreras will depend on his development as a catcher and if they keep caratini or trade him..

Zobrist is 36 and if his production keeps going down this year and next, I'd be surprise if he doesn't hang them up over collecting a final paycheck sitting on bench in 2019.

Heyward will be 28 next year, I still think as long as he doesn't go backwards in his offensive production, he will look for another long-term deal and opt out ..

Baez Russell Schwarber Almora are all expendable and could easily be used in deals between this trade deadline and 2018 off season..


This division sucks and all it will take for them to win it is to get a couple of these hitters back on track and add another solid starter to go with Lester and Hendricks..
Which could help them not just pull away in division but give them 3 solid starters for post season..


My thinking with CF, is their not playing Almora for whatever reason, which makes me think their looking to keep his value up by not playing him too much and risk him going into a long funk before they trade him..

Jay has been more valuable off the bench from the left side over starting everyday..

I think Happ needs to go back down and continue developing and work on adjusting to what he been seeing lately that been getting him out..

They need someone to jumpstart the offense and presumably at the top in front of Bryant and Rizzo..

Why not look for a CFer they can bat leadoff and hopefully give them that spark..


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
chibears55 said:
Been chewing on this today, what your thoughts..

Thinking about two separate trades they could consider next month..

1. If by then they still don't have production from the lead off spot, maybe they look at the lesser teams and make a deal for a lead off type CFer..

2. Use Almora in a deal that could bring in a SP

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of Almora more than most but he's really not going to bring more than someone to replace Butler which seems a waste honestly. Honestly, I'm not really sure why they don't give Heyward a go. I mean I know he's not killing it(more average than amazing) but he's got the plate discipline and if you're putting Zobrist in the 4 hole for a reason he seems the best option they have going right now. He also has the type of base running you typically want out of your lead off hitter.

If they are going to make a trade I don't see the point in nickel and diming your way to a guy cuz you're gonna get screwed value wise anyways so you may as well get a legit TOR type. For my money that's really like.... Gerrit Cole or Archer. Maybe you argue Sonny Gray should be in that discussion but I think he's still more of a #2. Cole may seem like a difficult get but he's probably at a good buy low point. Has a 4.27 ERA mostly inflated by HR balls. His 3.87 xFIP is definitely workable for a 27ish year old starter with his upside. It would obviously still take a strong offer but the Pirates aren't a team that can play the long game on players nearing FA.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Cole would be the best choice. Archer #2. Trading in Div would be risky but when you are talking about a legit ace with 2 + years of control and you are losing 3/5 of your rotation you just are forced into making choices like this.

The real question is what Pitt would want in return. They have a real need for a younger 3B so you figure Candi is on that trade. Clutch 17:$14M, 18:$14.5M club option ($1M buyout). You have to think they will cut ties here. Austin Meadows is slated to replace him already. They need a starting catcher. Cubs won't trade Contreras. If Pitt thinks Schwarber is a catcher or want Victor Caratini.

So say they went that direction: Victor Caratini and Jeimer Candelario from AAA. Both slate on their starting line up next year. After that you would have to believe they would want pitching.

So I really don't see Almora having interest for Pitt. He would be a 4th OF there also even after Clutch leaves.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
CSF77 said:
The real question is what Pitt would want in return.
Click to expand...

I doubt Pitt wants a 3B. They drafted Will Craig with the 22nd pick in 2016 and have Ke'Bryan Hayes also in A+. I'd imagine it would have to be something like Eloy + say Clifton + maybe Happ and then some minor filler. Happ/Eloy is a big pay so maybe you might look to do a three team deal with Candelario going some where else for something but that's around what I'd imagine it to take.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
chibears55 said:
Wouldn't surprise me if by 2019 half these position players won't be cubs..

I think there only 2 guys that are their untouchables and that Rizzo and Bryant..
Contreras will depend on his development as a catcher and if they keep caratini or trade him..

Zobrist is 36 and if his production keeps going down this year and next, I'd be surprise if he doesn't hang them up over collecting a final paycheck sitting on bench in 2019.

Heyward will be 28 next year, I still think as long as he doesn't go backwards in his offensive production, he will look for another long-term deal and opt out ..

Baez Russell Schwarber Almora are all expendable and could easily be used in deals between this trade deadline and 2018 off season..


This division sucks and all it will take for them to win it is to get a couple of these hitters back on track and add another solid starter to go with Lester and Hendricks..
Which could help them not just pull away in division but give them 3 solid starters for post season..


My thinking with CF, is their not playing Almora for whatever reason, which makes me think their looking to keep his value up by not playing him too much and risk him going into a long funk before they trade him..

Jay has been more valuable off the bench from the left side over starting everyday..

I think Happ needs to go back down and continue developing and work on adjusting to what he been seeing lately that been getting him out..

They need someone to jumpstart the offense and presumably at the top in front of Bryant and Rizzo..

Why not look for a CFer they can bat leadoff and hopefully give them that spark..


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What I saw today was Happ leading off and Zo back hitting #4. Bryant just hits better in the 2 hole and Bryant in the 3. Happ needs more protection at this point vs giving protection. Zo is all ready established and has done a fine job behind Rizzo.

I believe the key today was matching up Lackey and Montero again. They worked well last year and clicked again. With Contreras it has been a mixed bag. This goes for both John and Jake. Last year they both worked with Montero and now they are working with Contreras and both have taken a plunge.

It is a learning curve but both of these starters are gone next year so there is no reason to even bother. Just get them productive again.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,586
Liked Posts:
18,979
chibears55 said:
Getting a bit aggravated with Maddon here..
You got 2 guys sitting on bench that been hitting pretty much all year in Almora and Jay that he can play and lead off with..
But no he continues to put struggling bats there..
Happ 50 AB rookie hasn't done anything in over a week and he down to .210..
So you go with him there?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Jay has no business ever starting a major league game.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,586
Liked Posts:
18,979
chibears55 said:
Wouldn't surprise me if by 2019 half these position players won't be cubs..

I think there only 2 guys that are their untouchables and that Rizzo and Bryant..
Contreras will depend on his development as a catcher and if they keep caratini or trade him..

Zobrist is 36 and if his production keeps going down this year and next, I'd be surprise if he doesn't hang them up over collecting a final paycheck sitting on bench in 2019.

Heyward will be 28 next year, I still think as long as he doesn't go backwards in his offensive production, he will look for another long-term deal and opt out ..

Baez Russell Schwarber Almora are all expendable and could easily be used in deals between this trade deadline and 2018 off season..


This division sucks and all it will take for them to win it is to get a couple of these hitters back on track and add another solid starter to go with Lester and Hendricks..
Which could help them not just pull away in division but give them 3 solid starters for post season..


My thinking with CF, is their not playing Almora for whatever reason, which makes me think their looking to keep his value up by not playing him too much and risk him going into a long funk before they trade him..

Jay has been more valuable off the bench from the left side over starting everyday..

I think Happ needs to go back down and continue developing and work on adjusting to what he been seeing lately that been getting him out..

They need someone to jumpstart the offense and presumably at the top in front of Bryant and Rizzo..

Why not look for a CFer they can bat leadoff and hopefully give them that spark..


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

We have a gold glove caliber CF on the team right now, and he isn't given a chance to play. We don't need to trade for a CF.
 
chibears55

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,924
TL1961 said:
We have a gold glove caliber CF on the team right now, and he isn't given a chance to play. We don't need to trade for a CF.
Click to expand...
My point, he not playing him...

I think It's because their looking to use him in a deal at some point and they don't want to risk him losing value of he goes into a tail spin with bat..

Otherwise there no real solid reason not to start the kid more..


Jon Jay hitting .292 with a .380 OBP
He deserves to start more then Schwarber and Happ right now..

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

10,881members
93,077threads
4,375,290posts
621online users

Members online NOW

  • Member
  • Admin
  • Mod
  • Donor
  • HOF
Total: 621 (members: 15, guests: 606)
Top