Trade deadline banter

beckdawg said:

I think we're talking about two different things though. Obviously relievers are used more which is what you're suggesting. What I'm talking about more is in reference to the skyrocketing cost that has occurred in the past 5 years. From 2001-2011 reliever cost was fairly steady adjusted for inflation. The graph here is more about the growth of LOOGY's. In the 80's you'd have a reliever come in and he'd throw 2-3 innings commonly. This graph basically shows the idea that 1 out guys became a thing. The 2014 Royals to my knowledge were one of the first teams to have effectively 3 guys who could close in Davis, Holland and Herrera. All 3 had ERA's under 1.45. And in the playoffs they also brought up Brandon Finnegan who was fantastic. What made that bullpen special is their starter could get into a jam and at any point in the game you had 3-4 guys who could come in and fairly reliably get them out of that jam. Why that is revolutionary is historically if a starter got into a jam in say the 5th inning you'd see a middle reliever. Typically it was your "long guy." In other words, you're talking about guys like Travis Wood who are essentially our 6th starter. The idea was then for that guy to get you to the 7th where you'd see your specialization guys for the 7th-9th. Where we are today is a team like the cubs has Davis for the 9th but they can bring Edwards in at any point in the game. And presumably when Edwards gets you out of that jam you have someone like Duensing who's not a high leverage reliever start a clean frame. That in turn makes him more effective at his job because most relievers are decent with no one on to start an inning.

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CSF77 said:

So Grimm went to AAA. Kinda figured that he was the weak link.

Now I haven't heard of the 2nd guy demoted yet.

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Diehardfan said:

The first thing Grimm should do is work on a 3rd pitch. Fangraphs says he throws a 4 seamer and a curve 98% of the time. He supposedly has a slider too that he throws about 2% of the time. I'm not sure I've ever seen it. He has a good arm, he just needs another pitch to go to if he wants to stay with the big club.

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beckdawg said:

I mean not really. It's something that effects everyone it's just people with worse stuff fall off harder.

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CSF77 said:

Came up a starter. He should go back to it imo

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Diehardfan said:

The first thing Grimm should do is work on a 3rd pitch. Fangraphs says he throws a 4 seamer and a curve 98% of the time. He supposedly has a slider too that he throws about 2% of the time. I'm not sure I've ever seen it. He has a good arm, he just needs another pitch to go to if he wants to stay with the big club.

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Diehardfan said:

Maybe, but he'd still need another pitch.

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CSF77 said:

If he is a BP arm all he needs is a 2 pitch mix. If he is going as a starter, they get by with 3. Change ups to keep the lefties at bay. Dempster did fine with a fastball/slider/change approach. What matters is location and sequencing. If he is able to locate his fastball and hide his pitches he should be able to succeed.

Now if I was him and I had a 4 seam/curve combo, which is pretty much a flyball pitcher. I would consider adding a cut-fastball to add a slight slider action then continue to add in my slider. That gives effectively 2 sliders. 1 harder with less movement 2nd slower with more movement.. Then focus on locating them both in the same arm slot.

After that he would then be wise to add a circle change or palm ball. Depending on what he is more comfortable with. Some guys use a fork grip or go split. But anything to choke velocity. By varying his grips he can add movement to his pitch.

I see him as another Straliy to be honest. Dan really was in the same boat when he was here. Stuck in the pen/ex-starter. Then he went out and ran with it and now is a solid SP.

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