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  1. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    1) Check some numbers on Robertson. He's middle of the pack at the closer position. He's tied with four others guys at #13 this year in fWAR.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&page=1_50

    #23 over the last two years
    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...rs=0&page=2_30


    #13 over the last three years
    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...rs=0&page=1_50

    Yes middle of the pack. No better than that, and slightly worse given the dollars he's paid in trade value.

    2) Tommy turns 28 on August 7th. Did he figure it out? Perhaps. But it's not a need for us and is replaceable. He's Nate Jones and Nate's got minimal value.

    3) Robles is the better hitter and all around player and the guy the team needs to hit leadoff. No one has any of your guys better. NO ONE.

    4) Great hitters are just that because they are great. They can hit regardless of who pitches. That's what the White Sox need. Not someone to break a lineup of hitters up.

    I have said nothing of the sort that younger players are better. You are however the one that said we need to dump and go for the playoffs this year. That's on the high end of the crazy scale of things to be posting.
    I did not say a thing about dumping and going for the play-offs this year. I said that in their weak division they could win while still building young prospects. As for the line-up, you ask anyone who has been around the game awhile and they will tell you that a balanced line-up is the way to go, particular in the age of the relief pitcher. We simply disagree with the role of a closer and a great set-up guy. THe White Sox right now are losing games because the starting pitching has gone into the toilet and their defense, particularly Anderson at short-stop. 16 errors up to this point are terrible. Perhaps they ought to think about moving him to center field? He has great speed and maybe he could be a fit their.

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  3. #24
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    3) Robles is the better hitter and all around player and the guy the team needs to hit leadoff. No one has any of your guys better. NO ONE.

    Robles is younger and farther away from making it as a prospect. Calhoun is at least equal to him as a hitting prospect and definitely a middle of the order power guy. Verdugo's probable spot is at 2nd base/LF. He would also slot out as a lead-off guy or two spot hitter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    I did not say a thing about dumping and going for the play-offs this year. I said that in their weak division they could win while still building young prospects.
    You stated in post 7 "In addition, the season is also only half over and why should they not try to win their division. I say go for it. "

    So you are right, that may not say abandon the rebuild of the minors but other posts of yours previously in trading away Eaton and Sale have so you can see where the logical connection is made.

    As for the line-up, you ask anyone who has been around the game awhile and they will tell you that a balanced line-up is the way to go, particular in the age of the relief pitcher.
    And no one said they needed a lefty between Belle and Thomas as an example. Great hitters hit. Period. We need more great hitters.

    We simply disagree with the role of a closer and a great set-up guy. THe White Sox right now are losing games because the starting pitching has gone into the toilet and their defense, particularly Anderson at short-stop. 16 errors up to this point are terrible. Perhaps they ought to think about moving him to center field? He has great speed and maybe he could be a fit their.
    We disagree on the value of our guys, not the roles of them.

    Tim Anderson might be looked at elsewhere if we get a better SS in, for now he's going to learn at his position of SS and I have zero issues with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    3) Robles is the better hitter and all around player and the guy the team needs to hit leadoff. No one has any of your guys better. NO ONE.

    Robles is younger and farther away from making it as a prospect. Calhoun is at least equal to him as a hitting prospect and definitely a middle of the order power guy. Verdugo's probable spot is at 2nd base/LF. He would also slot out as a lead-off guy or two spot hitter.
    Robles is father away but we aren't ready to be winning it tomorrow. We need the better player if possible at a position we need..CF, not 2b
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  6. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    You stated in post 7 "In addition, the season is also only half over and why should they not try to win their division. I say go for it. "

    So you are right, that may not say abandon the rebuild of the minors but other posts of yours previously in trading away Eaton and Sale have so you can see where the logical connection is made.


    I will not back away from what I said. If the Sox had Sale this year, they are pretty well at the top of their division.


    And no one said they needed a lefty between Belle and Thomas as an example. Great hitters hit. Period. We need more great hitters.


    I know how to put together a hitting line-up and balancing right handed and left handed hitting hitters are a key component.
    We disagree on the value of our guys, not the roles of them.

    Tim Anderson might be looked at elsewhere if we get a better SS in, for now he's going to learn at his position of SS and I have zero issues with that.
    I am merely stating that Anderson has sucked defensively for a couple of years. I think that despite his speed he is not quick as an infielder. He has a great arm and a decent bat but I think that next spring training, they really ought to think about moving him to center field.

  7. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Robles is father away but we aren't ready to be winning it tomorrow. We need the better player if possible at a position we need..CF, not 2b
    Calhoun can play this year. Robles won't play until 2019 if then. Verdugo can play center field and has a legit power bat.

  8. #29
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    Given the present situation this is the trade I would look into.

    Trade with the Dodgers. I give them Quintana and Robertson in return for Verdugo(2b/OF, Calhoun(CF) and Ruiz(C). Three top Dodger prospects. Calhoun goes immediately into the starting line-up in center field. Verdugo slots in next year at either LF or 2b and Ruiz makes the team in 2019 and competes for the starting job. I've seen Verdugo and Calhoun play and they will be legit major league starting players in the near future.

  9. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Robles is father away but we aren't ready to be winning it tomorrow. We need the better player if possible at a position we need..CF, not 2b
    We need better players PERIOD. We need better players at 2b, C, CF, and LF. We also have a problem at SS. Way too many errors and no end in sight.

  10. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    You stated in post 7 "In addition, the season is also only half over and why should they not try to win their division. I say go for it. "

    So you are right, that may not say abandon the rebuild of the minors but other posts of yours previously in trading away Eaton and Sale have so you can see where the logical connection is made.



    And no one said they needed a lefty between Belle and Thomas as an example. Great hitters hit. Period. We need more great hitters.


    The truth is that no great hitting line-up has all of the hitters hitting from one side of the plate. The notion is bullshit. Particularly when you are talking about middle of the line-up guys. It makes thing way to easy for the great set-up guys and closers that teams have.
    We disagree on the value of our guys, not the roles of them.

    Tim Anderson might be looked at elsewhere if we get a better SS in, for now he's going to learn at his position of SS and I have zero issues with that.

    It is not an immediate need but certainly a consideration. I just think that Anderson is not quick enough to be a good defensive short-stop. So, If I am in trade talks with a team that has an excellent young short-stop, I would certainly think about trading for him as part of another deal for another player.

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  12. #32
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    I think Anderson should be given some slack for being rushed up and making minor league mistakes at the big league level due to talent. Is he a future LF with Robert in CF?

    IDK...no reason to rush that, just keep getting him reps. His quickness will improve from reps in anticipation. He is a little lanky for a SS. He could be a third baseman?

    I'm not in the Robertson is gonna make it long term camp, and Moncada will be in the middle soon.

    The Sox budget can still complete this puzzle.

    1. Robert CF
    2. Anderson 3B
    3. Abreu 1B/DH
    4. DH
    5. 2b Moncada
    6. Garcia RF
    7. LF
    8. Defensive Catcher
    9. Defensive SS


    This puzzle can easily be finished if you just buy 1 or 2 bats. They will need to finish it in FA after clearing cap. 2-3 years from now, re-sign Abreu/Garcia and go buy 1-2 bats. Cespedes is still the best fit in MLB for us.

    Cespedes AND Schwarber would have potential to make this team a power. No way Cubs end up able to sign Kyle after they pay who they have to.

    Blackmon is worth every penny. You can't find those hitters anywhere.
    1a. OLB Myles Garrett 1b. FS Malik Hooker 2a. WR Corey Davis 2b. Corner or OT 3a. QB Webb. Kaaya. Russell. Mahomme. somebody will be here at great value. 4a.CB Awuzie Colorado 4b.TE Sprinkles Alabama 4c.RT
    5a.CB Tony Brown Alabama 6' 4.4 speed. Troubled. 5b.Jake Butt TE Michigan. injured

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    Calhoun can play this year. Robles won't play until 2019 if then. Calhoun can play center field and has a legit power bat.
    Calhoun and Robles are both projected for 2018.
    Calhoun cannot play CF
    The power bat in calhoun is the same as Robles except Robles is two years younger. Remember those homers Calhoun is hitting is in the PCL.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    Given the present situation this is the trade I would look into.

    Trade with the Dodgers. I give them Quintana and Robertson in return for Verdugo(2b/OF, Calhoun(CF) and Ruiz(C). Three top Dodger prospects. Calhoun goes immediately into the starting line-up in center field. Verdugo slots in next year at either LF or 2b and Ruiz makes the team in 2019 and competes for the starting job. I've seen Verdugo and Calhoun play and they will be legit major league starting players in the near future.
    Im not making that trade. You just put Tommy ahead of Q in value. You are also way optimistic on how fast Ruiz will develop...He's 18. And as stated, Calhoun can't play CF. Verdugo is not projected as a CF in the bigs either. Finally LA has no use for Robertson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    I think Anderson should be given some slack for being rushed up and making minor league mistakes at the big league level due to talent. Is he a future LF with Robert in CF?

    IDK...no reason to rush that, just keep getting him reps. His quickness will improve from reps in anticipation. He is a little lanky for a SS. He could be a third baseman?

    I'm not in the Robertson is gonna make it long term camp, and Moncada will be in the middle soon.

    The Sox budget can still complete this puzzle.

    1. Robert CF
    2. Anderson 3B
    3. Abreu 1B/DH
    4. DH
    5. 2b Moncada
    6. Garcia RF
    7. LF
    8. Defensive Catcher
    9. Defensive SS


    This puzzle can easily be finished if you just buy 1 or 2 bats. They will need to finish it in FA after clearing cap. 2-3 years from now, re-sign Abreu/Garcia and go buy 1-2 bats. Cespedes is still the best fit in MLB for us.

    Cespedes AND Schwarber would have potential to make this team a power. No way Cubs end up able to sign Kyle after they pay who they have to.

    Blackmon is worth every penny. You can't find those hitters anywhere.
    Davidson is going to be the answer at 3b/DH if he finishes like he's started.

    You aren't getting Cespedes at age 35 when his contract is up.
    We ain't paying what it would take to get Kyle away fro the Cubs
    I liked Blackmon, but he'd need to be gotten in a trade and secondly he's below average away from Coors. I pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Calhoun and Robles are both projected for 2018.
    Calhoun cannot play CF
    The power bat in calhoun is the same as Robles except Robles is two years younger. Remember those homers Calhoun is hitting is in the PCL.
    Verdugo can play center field. He has throughout his career. He could start for the SOX this year. They project him for right field but they have Avi there already. Calhoun also already hits home runs and would be a good left handed bat while Robles hasn't shown an ability to elevate the ball.

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    Colorado will retain Blackmon. They are filling seats.

    I guess we can do it, just gotta rebuild pitching from within and this team can destory for a year or two if all the pieces come together at the same time for under 60,000,000.
    1a. OLB Myles Garrett 1b. FS Malik Hooker 2a. WR Corey Davis 2b. Corner or OT 3a. QB Webb. Kaaya. Russell. Mahomme. somebody will be here at great value. 4a.CB Awuzie Colorado 4b.TE Sprinkles Alabama 4c.RT
    5a.CB Tony Brown Alabama 6' 4.4 speed. Troubled. 5b.Jake Butt TE Michigan. injured

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    The idea is to put together the best pool of talent, period. The fit doesn't matter at this point. They need as many studs as possible. Not all of the pieces are going to play for the White Sox. Some will be used to bring in vets that will compliment the new young core once that is defined. Some will wash out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    Verdugo can play center field. He has throughout his career. He could start for the SOX this year. They project him for right field but they have Avi there already. Calhoun also already hits home runs and would be a good left handed bat while Robles hasn't shown an ability to elevate the ball.
    He's projected in RF because he can't play CF in the bigs. Again, the power Calhoun shows is in the PCL. It's really the same power that Robles has.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    He's projected in RF because he can't play CF in the bigs. Again, the power Calhoun shows is in the PCL. It's really the same power that Robles has.
    That is just not true. He can play center field and has played it throughout his young career. He is projected to be a major league right fielder because he has a very strong arm. The profound increase in his power numbers is not because of the PCL. It is because of an adjustment that he made in his stroke as in elevating the ball. HE is a strong young man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    That is just not true. He can play center field and has played it throughout his young career. He is projected to be a major league right fielder because he has a very strong arm. The profound increase in his power numbers is not because of the PCL. It is because of an adjustment that he made in his stroke as in elevating the ball. HE is a strong young man.
    He's projected in RF because he can't cover CF in the bigs. It's not an arm thing.
    His power is projected by the people that get checks 5 points higher than Robles who is only 20 and 2 years younger. It's the same. In fact, Calhoun might have slightly less power as Robles continues to mature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    He's projected in RF because he can't cover CF in the bigs. It's not an arm thing.
    His power is projected by the people that get checks 5 points higher than Robles who is only 20 and 2 years younger. It's the same. In fact, Calhoun might have slightly less power as Robles continues to mature.
    Calhoun has legit power and is more mature and major league ready. Robles has a lot of talent but has yet to prove himself to the extent that the other two have. Anyway, no new ground is being covered here so might as well agree to disagree.

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