IST: Cubs vs Pirates

Globetrotter · Jul 9, 2017

beckdawg said:
On the plus side, Schwarber seems to be back.

Back to what?

Parade_Rain · Jul 9, 2017

I think Maddon has done a really good job keeping this team around the .500 mark so far this season. The roster construction wasn't very good headed into the season and the team lacks leadership. They knew they would be losing Grandpa, but decided not to resign Fowler for the development of a guy who appears to have a 4th Outfielder ceiling. Add in the getting old starting pitching and Lester's issues needing a personal catcher, etc. I'm not sure why people would have expected a repeat? They should be better in the 2nd half though.

Ari Bear · Jul 9, 2017

Matt360 said:
Back to what?

Hitting

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Diehardfan · Jul 9, 2017

Parade_Rain said:
I think Maddon has done a really good job keeping this team around the .500 mark so far this season. The roster construction wasn't very good headed into the season and the team lacks leadership. They knew they would be losing Grandpa, but decided not to resign Fowler for the development of a guy who appears to have a 4th Outfielder ceiling. Add in the getting old starting pitching and Lester's issues needing a personal catcher, etc. I'm not sure why people would have expected a repeat? They should be better in the 2nd half though.

Yeah, pretty much patchwork from day one. I mean its nice to be able to play guys out of position from time to time but for a whole season? Aging and fading starters along with far more injuries than they ever had to deal with....it's just how baseball is. When things are going your way, you better go for it as Theo wisely did last year...this year, you need to regroup and quit looking for a miracle player to trade for. There isn't one out there.

beckdawg · Jul 9, 2017

Parade_Rain said:
I think Maddon has done a really good job keeping this team around the .500 mark so far this season. The roster construction wasn't very good headed into the season and the team lacks leadership. They knew they would be losing Grandpa, but decided not to resign Fowler for the development of a guy who appears to have a 4th Outfielder ceiling. Add in the getting old starting pitching and Lester's issues needing a personal catcher, etc. I'm not sure why people would have expected a repeat? They should be better in the 2nd half though.

Not sure it's really fair to characterize Almora like that. When he's played he's hit. What's weird to me is Maddon hasn't shown any indication of not playing Baez yet Almora has out hit Baez. So, it's odd to me that Almora being a glove first guy hasn't been given the same opportunities even prior to Happ being promoted. Its honestly crazy that a guy who's been up all year has fewer PAs than Happ who's only been up about a month.

So, if the idea was to "develop" Almora they really aren't doing it.

Globetrotter · Jul 9, 2017

Ari Bear said:
Hitting

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Sorry, I assumed you had to have a track record of actually doing something before you could get away and back again.

Parade_Rain · Jul 9, 2017

beckdawg said:
Not sure it's really fair to characterize Almora like that. When he's played he's hit. What's weird to me is Maddon hasn't shown any indication of not playing Baez yet Almora has out hit Baez. So, it's odd to me that Almora being a glove first guy hasn't been given the same opportunities even prior to Happ being promoted. Its honestly crazy that a guy who's been up all year has fewer PAs than Happ who's only been up about a month.

So, if the idea was to "develop" Almora they really aren't doing it.

I'd asked the question in another thread and frankly speaking that's what the conclusion was on Albert. They certainly must feel they missed on the draft pick or something, because it's weird that he doesn't get a ton of playing time.

Ari Bear · Jul 9, 2017

Matt360 said:
Sorry, I assumed you had to have a track record of actually doing something before you could get away and back again.

A few hits, a hr during this series. Nice way to start bring yourself back.

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Globetrotter · Jul 9, 2017

Ari Bear said:
A few hits, a hr during this series. Nice way to start bring yourself back.

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While it's been nice to see him having some success, I think you're missing my point.

Ari Bear · Jul 9, 2017

Matt360 said:
While it's been nice to see him having some success, I think you're missing my point.

Ahh, ok. You were speaking with sarcasm.

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TL1961 · Jul 9, 2017

Parade_Rain said:
I think Maddon has done a really good job keeping this team around the .500 mark so far this season. The roster construction wasn't very good headed into the season and the team lacks leadership. They knew they would be losing Grandpa, but decided not to resign Fowler for the development of a guy who appears to have a 4th Outfielder ceiling. Add in the getting old starting pitching and Lester's issues needing a personal catcher, etc. I'm not sure why people would have expected a repeat? They should be better in the 2nd half though.

What was it, three players gone from the 2016 WS champs?

Yeah, pretty poor.

TL1961 · Jul 9, 2017

It's the "Joe Maddon Rest".

I am going to put in your backup to give you some rest - go play another position.

Try not to get tired.

Or make too many more errors.

beckdawg · Jul 9, 2017

Parade_Rain said:
I'd asked the question in another thread and frankly speaking that's what the conclusion was on Albert. They certainly must feel they missed on the draft pick or something, because it's weird that he doesn't get a ton of playing time.

I don't think they did personally on missing the pick. I don't honestly know what to make of it. I could see the argument of wanting more of an impact bat in the line up with the offense struggling but that's what's been odd because he actually has been a pleasant surprise. They mentioned prior to the season not wanting to put the pressure of starting on him which again sort of makes sense but then they are doing that with half their roster full of young guys and have gone against that thinking the past few years.

Only real thought I have is they just want to get more use out of their vets and didn't want to push another young guy in the line up on a super young team. That would give Jay and Zobrist more time.

Ari Bear · Jul 9, 2017

TL1961 said:
It's the "Joe Maddon Rest".

I am going to put in your backup to give you some rest - go play another position.

Try not to get tired.

Or make too many more errors.

And

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TL1961 · Jul 9, 2017

beckdawg said:
I don't think they did personally on missing the pick. I don't honestly know what to make of it. I could see the argument of wanting more of an impact bat in the line up with the offense struggling but that's what's been odd because he actually has been a pleasant surprise. They mentioned prior to the season not wanting to put the pressure of starting on him which again sort of makes sense but then they are doing that with half their roster full of young guys and have gone against that thinking the past few years.

Only real thought I have is they just want to get more use out of their vets and didn't want to push another young guy in the line up on a super young team. That would give Jay and Zobrist more time.

At the time, I thought it was strange to worry so much about the bat, when he is a solid fielder, joining a team that had a lot of offense.

As it turned out, they used a lesser glove, and lesser lead off hitter, and he still doesn't get enough time.

I personally would like to see him get the CF job, and stay there for two months before being evaluated.

Lots of young talent, none of it getting steady playing time.

TL1961 · Jul 9, 2017

The once-again sub-.500, 4th place Pirates sure do play cocky.

chibears55 · Jul 9, 2017

Parade_Rain said:
I'd asked the question in another thread and frankly speaking that's what the conclusion was on Albert. They certainly must feel they missed on the draft pick or something, because it's weird that he doesn't get a ton of playing time.

Been what I've been questioning all year...

They don't bring back Fowler...fine , they didn't want to spend money on him..
But
Wasn't it also to allow Almora the opportunity to play and develop in CF? And why they brought in Jay to be his LH back up..

Both those guys has been pretty much their most consistent hitters all year bit they both have taken a back seat to PT lately..

Right now i guarantee that have no idea who going to play CF, 2B, or SS for them next year...

Baez and Russell haven't stepped up their game offensively..

Almora has been put on bottom shelf, despite having some success.

Happ been the surprise but they haven't settled on a position for him.. (I prefer 2B)

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CSF77 · Jul 9, 2017

The whole ease him into is is nothing but BS. Bryant they pushed him. Russell played every day batting 9th. Happ promoted early. Playing every day batting 4th.

So who is full of crap with that spill.

What I'm seeing is players that fit in full time roles and part time roles. That is it. Every thing else is excuses.

beckdawg · Jul 9, 2017

CSF77 said:
The whole ease him into is is nothing but BS. Bryant they pushed him. Russell played every day batting 9th. Happ promoted early. Playing every day batting 4th.

So who is full of crap with that spill.

What I'm seeing is players that fit in full time roles and part time roles. That is it. Every thing else is excuses.

Eh... i mean I see where you're coming from but think about it like this, Bryant, russell and most of the other young guys were coming into a team that hadn't made the playoffs yet. Almora would be starting for the defending world series champs. I'm as big of an Almora fan as anyone but it's a tough ask of any rookie to be counted on to replace Fowler on a team with repeat aspirations. So, I get the idea they were going for.

Where I don't get it is they basically gave him little to no shot at all. Like they were starting Heyward in CF a lot to start the year. That never made sense to me if indeed the plan was to develop Almora with lots of cover for him failing as a rookie. So, I don't know if Maddon just doesn't have faith in him or if plans changed or what's going on. I also think that once shit started hitting the fan and they weren't winning or playing well he kind of just got over looked to get vets who weren't hitting in the line up and more reps. For example, a lot of the line up was struggling but Heyward in CF lets you play Zobrist in RF and Baez at 2B as the "main core" from last years team. Then you add in Happ coming up and playing well and I think that's why we are where we are.

CSF77 · Jul 9, 2017

I believe the plan was a 5 year rebuild and the he first year they took the best HS kid so he would develop at the same time as the later picks.

Getting Bryant changed the dynamic

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