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    So who is going to go out and watch the White Sox team next year and beyond? I assume that Frazier will be gone and so will Robertson and Cabrera. The 2018 "team" will have maybe two 3A position guys who MAY be ready to play at the major league level in Moncada and Roberts. Don't see any other non pitching guy ready to play and the pitchers always are a crap-shoot in addition. So no closer and possibly not even having their present set-up guy move into the closer job because they are talking about trading him also.

    I am talking about one of the worst potential teams that the White Sox have ever fielded next year. Pitiful. And Reinny will whine and bitch about his "disloyal" fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    Sure I do. I also know quite a bit about how the draft works, what scouts do and don't do, etc. I won't bore the board with my resume but suffice it to say is that I do know quite a bit about baseball. I find you pretty much to be insulting to those who have the audacity to disagree with you as in your silly little "trade proposal" for another message board member. All because I have the so-called audacity to disagree with your belief about the quality of their owner. To me, that is the mark of immaturity on your part, sorry to say. So instead of arguing substance, you become petty.
    The irony.

    But back to the situation about "Q", absolutely there were reports pretty early into his struggles in April and May about how this might effect his anticipated TRADE VALUE.
    Yes by fans as I have already said.
    Hell, even in mid-June some analysts talked about his stats reducing his trade "value" in addition to talk about how he had appeared to have righted his ship. Yet you adopted a know-it-all response as if no smart person questioned his stats.
    They didn't question. They rightly pointed out that he's pitching every bit as dominant, actually more dominant then his career norms. People were going to have to pay for Q and the reports (by fans no less) were grossly exaggerated.

    But stick to your narrative. I wouldn't want the irony to stop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    As am I. I kind of also think that Reinny kind of under-cut Hahn in his good effort to build a team after Hahn did a wonderful job to sign four all star quality studs like Abreau, Sales, "Q", and Garcia to very cost effective long term deals.
    You misspelled Kenny Williams.


    Hahn never got the really good recognition from those efforts and now Reinny pulls the rug right out from under him with the forced sale of "Q" and Chris Sales.

    By the way, do you think that this cheap (stuff) won't get noticed across the league if and when they want to sign their younger players to the same kind of contracts? It will not happen that easily and nor will the destination of choice for free agents being the Chicago White Sox unless Reinny retires and puts someone in place who cares and is willing to do smart things to build a quality team.
    And this has already been proven wrong with Robert taking less to come to us. Don't stop now boys. Keep trying to feed your hatred boys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    I am talking about one of the worst potential teams that the White Sox have ever fielded next year. Pitiful. And Reinny will whine and bitch about his "disloyal" fans.
    Attendance the same this year as it has been in 2016 and 2015. And ahead of 2014. Looks like the fans are buying into the rebuild and supporting the process. Don't stop now, let the hate flow thru you.
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    Typical Brett. I guess he doesn't know that people watch the same sports guys that he watches. Hey, Brett, your basically ignoring the FACT that sports reporters DID mention a potential loss in "Q"s value and not just "fans" like you allege. You are just wrong and you will not admit it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    You misspelled Kenny Williams.


    Hahn never got the really good recognition from those efforts and now Reinny pulls the rug right out from under him with the forced sale of "Q" and Chris Sales.


    And this has already been proven wrong with Robert taking less to come to us. Don't stop now boys. Keep trying to feed your hatred boys.
    What hatred, Brett? People disagree with you and you insult them. That is the truth. Rask is a pretty smart baseball guy from what I have read in his what-if scenarios and he is some-kind of a hater?

    You know, Brett, I remember you question why people do not come to this forum. Perhaps you yourself ought to take a look at how you handle yourself in your dialogue. All people are entitled to their view yet in your shallow mind, they are considered "Haters" if they disagree with you. Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Attendance the same this year as it has been in 2016 and 2015. And ahead of 2014. Looks like the fans are buying into the rebuild and supporting the process. Don't stop now, let the hate flow thru you.
    I am talking about the finality of the tank job that the Sox are doing now and the fact of a pathetic team on the field. IF Reinny was smart(which he clearly is not) he would cut ticket prices in half at least since it is going to be a 2A-3A product on the field. Also, Brett, what happens If these prospects do not deliver as promised? Then what happens? Think that one through.

    Two shitty owners, three shitty teams. The Reinny's and McCaskey's.

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    gotta like Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Robert, Eloy Jiminez potential though. Looks like a core to me. Most of those will be up here sooner than we think, if not all by next season.
    1a. OLB Myles Garrett 1b. FS Malik Hooker 2a. WR Corey Davis 2b. Corner or OT 3a. QB Webb. Kaaya. Russell. Mahomme. somebody will be here at great value. 4a.CB Awuzie Colorado 4b.TE Sprinkles Alabama 4c.RT
    5a.CB Tony Brown Alabama 6' 4.4 speed. Troubled. 5b.Jake Butt TE Michigan. injured

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    What hatred, Brett? People disagree with you and you insult them. That is the truth. Rask is a pretty smart baseball guy from what I have read in his what-if scenarios and he is some-kind of a hater?

    You know, Brett, I remember you question why people do not come to this forum. Perhaps you yourself ought to take a look at how you handle yourself in your dialogue. All people are entitled to their view yet in your shallow mind, they are considered "Haters" if they disagree with you. Why?
    Can you speak on baseball intelligently or not? You can start my admitting how wrong you have been in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    what happens If these prospects do not deliver as promised?
    cutting thru your posts to the substance, this is a fair question. What happens if the specs all fail? You try something else. Exactly what they are doing instead of sticking with the same plan they have for years for which you and Rask want them to continue to do and for some reason you expect different results. That says it all right there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    gotta like Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Robert, Eloy Jiminez potential though. Looks like a core to me. Most of those will be up here sooner than we think, if not all by next season.
    Looks like you're coming around to the plan. I hope they perform well. Next year a bit early, but we should begin to see things turn slightly in the talent pool with the biggest turn happening in 2019.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    I am talking about the finality of the tank job that the Sox are doing now and the fact of a pathetic team on the field. IF Reinny was smart(which he clearly is not) he would cut ticket prices in half at least since it is going to be a 2A-3A product on the field. Also, Brett, what happens If these prospects do not deliver as promised? Then what happens? Think that one through.

    Two shitty owners, three shitty teams. The Reinny's and McCaskey's.
    It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking, Hawk. What happens is that nothing changes....everything will be the same that it has been for the last 10 years. Throwing shit to the wind while trying to win every year at any cost wasn't working...hasn't in 10 years. It was time to go in another direction. Look, I'm not a metrics numbers guy....I only know what I see. I haven't seen all of these guys but I've seen a few of them and the ones I've seen look like the real deal and leads me believe that Hahn knows what he's doing. It's doubtful that they hit a HR on as many as the Cubs, but even if they don't they have built their farm system into one of baseball's best. Not a small accomplishment and one that should serve them well for many years. I have a buddy who openly cheers every Sox win on Facebook. It drives me crazy...I keep telling him that every win is like a knife in their hearts. They are going nowhere this year and the higher you draft the less chance you have on making a mistake in the first round. The top 5 is where you find the Kris Bryants of the world. That's where they need to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Looks like you're coming around to the plan. I hope they perform well. Next year a bit early, but we should begin to see things turn slightly in the talent pool with the biggest turn happening in 2019.
    yeah, and also there is a reason you can pull top ten prospects with cost controlled #1 and #2 pitchers. I don't have delusions we will have such a great opportunity to spend money and make the playoffs and once you are there with 2 hot pitchers anything can happen.

    I still would have gone the other way and filled around those guys for 2 years, and THEN traded them.
    1a. OLB Myles Garrett 1b. FS Malik Hooker 2a. WR Corey Davis 2b. Corner or OT 3a. QB Webb. Kaaya. Russell. Mahomme. somebody will be here at great value. 4a.CB Awuzie Colorado 4b.TE Sprinkles Alabama 4c.RT
    5a.CB Tony Brown Alabama 6' 4.4 speed. Troubled. 5b.Jake Butt TE Michigan. injured

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    Rask,

    I love your heart put the plan you laid out was not possible.

    If we keep being the king of pitching development, we'll have no problems eventually landing the hitting. We have a great start to it in the minors now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Rask,

    I love your heart put the plan you laid out was not possible.

    If we keep being the king of pitching development, we'll have no problems eventually landing the hitting. We have a great start to it in the minors now.
    It could be 30 years before you have 2 pitchers like that again, you gotta go all in.
    1a. OLB Myles Garrett 1b. FS Malik Hooker 2a. WR Corey Davis 2b. Corner or OT 3a. QB Webb. Kaaya. Russell. Mahomme. somebody will be here at great value. 4a.CB Awuzie Colorado 4b.TE Sprinkles Alabama 4c.RT
    5a.CB Tony Brown Alabama 6' 4.4 speed. Troubled. 5b.Jake Butt TE Michigan. injured

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Can you speak on baseball intelligently or not? You can start my admitting how wrong you have been in this thread.
    See. You just did it again. You don't want to opine and then argue. You just want to opine and then we all should blindly follow your dictates. Didn't know that you got appointed the leader of this forum and also the decider of who is or is not right about anything. Did you self appoint yourself, Brett? I don't recall a vote on this subject. BTW, I know my credentials regarding the sport of baseball. What are yours? Please impress us all with your breath of knowledge on the subject because somehow it just hasn't come through to date in your missives thus far

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    cutting thru your posts to the substance, this is a fair question. What happens if the specs all fail? You try something else. Exactly what they are doing instead of sticking with the same plan they have for years for which you and Rask want them to continue to do and for some reason you expect different results. That says it all right there.
    Hilarious. They failed in the past because they didn't spend enough money to fill a few holes after Hahn built a potentially dominant pitching staff a couple of years ago. Now, they pretty much pissed all that away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehardfan View Post
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    It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking, Hawk. What happens is that nothing changes....everything will be the same that it has been for the last 10 years. Throwing shit to the wind while trying to win every year at any cost wasn't working...hasn't in 10 years. It was time to go in another direction. Look, I'm not a metrics numbers guy....I only know what I see. I haven't seen all of these guys but I've seen a few of them and the ones I've seen look like the real deal and leads me believe that Hahn knows what he's doing. It's doubtful that they hit a HR on as many as the Cubs, but even if they don't they have built their farm system into one of baseball's best. Not a small accomplishment and one that should serve them well for many years. I have a buddy who openly cheers every Sox win on Facebook. It drives me crazy...I keep telling him that every win is like a knife in their hearts. They are going nowhere this year and the higher you draft the less chance you have on making a mistake in the first round. The top 5 is where you find the Kris Bryants of the world. That's where they need to be.
    I just simply disagree in that they did NOT spend the money that they needed to to win in those years. Don't forget, they actually won a World Series a decade ago and had a real chance to build on that but failed miserably and the problem was mainly Reinny. Also I have to really question anyone who claims to be a fan but doesn't care that their team is as bad as Reinny has built and who openly roots against them so that they can get the mystical draft pick. Good luck in finding the Kris Bryant if you will but guess what, he is as likely to be found in the 2nd or 5th round as he is in the top five of all selections. The graveyard is littered with failed top five draft picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Rask,

    I love your heart put the plan you laid out was not possible.

    If we keep being the king of pitching development, we'll have no problems eventually landing the hitting. We have a great start to it in the minors now.
    They gave up the best pitcher in the AL and another top ten left handed major league starting pitcher to boot. They should have BUILT a team around the young studs they had not given them away for prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawk View Post
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    They gave up the best pitcher in the AL and another top ten left handed major league starting pitcher to boot. They should have BUILT a team around the young studs they had not given them away for prospects.
    Been there done that, failed. Had to try something new. Not enough in the cupboard to build around them. Your answer is to use money from other business ventures to supply the White Sox. That plan grades a F.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Been there done that, failed. Had to try something new. Not enough in the cupboard to build around them. Your answer is to use money from other business ventures to supply the White Sox. That plan grades a F.
    Bullshit. What they did was a series of half measures not a real commitment to winning. Reinsdorf is a rich owner and wants fans to spend their money on a shit product. HE is like the prototype fat baron of the realm who feasts while his people starve. He had a real chance to take the White Sox into prominence in the AL after 2005 but presided over dismantling it. ANd he pretty did the same thing with another Chicago team, namely the Bulls, another professional team laughing stock.

    So, Brett, you've got your wish. A terrible team with a lot of young talent in a farm system that through history has failed to develop non-pitching talent. IF you want to see a real team on the field, take a gander at the Dodgers. They did it the correct way, building a great farm system also but always contending in the major league. Guess what? They spend money, draw fans to watch their product, and win. I am not saying that the White Sox would be smart to spend anywhere near what the Dodgers do but they shouldn't be the Padres either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    gotta like Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Robert, Eloy Jiminez potential though. Looks like a core to me. Most of those will be up here sooner than we think, if not all by next season.
    Did you leave Garcia out for any particular reason? Think that Reinny will trade him also? I imagine he will when his contract is getting near being the cheap bastard that he is

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