Quintana a Cub

CSF77 said:

I think they are done until the winter meetings. They traded both of their blue chips. If they were going to trade from the MLB roster they would have in that deal.

Next year you are looking at Lester, Q and Hendricks.

Honestly the guy I'm thinking they target is Alex Cobb, 30 next year with a career 3.63 FiP, add to it he came up with Joe in TB. He is a guy that they can slot in between Lester and Q with out busting the bank. Tseng leads as the inhouse guy. If they are looking at a 1-2 year deal Doug Fister or Marco Estrada. There are many MOR to BOR to pick.

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I still think they do a candelario and maybe Zagunis to Detroit for Avila. Of course my best case is they let Schwarber catch a few games before deciding they need that veteran catcher, but I think they still get one in a minor deal.

They redid the bullpen last year, I expect some moves to be made there. Edwards needs to settle into a role. This 8th inning 1 day and 5th or 6th the next is tough for him. Ultimately it should be Monty back in the pen to bolster that and Butler back in AAA to keep him stretched for a pop up start somewhere along the line.

CSF77 said:

I think they are done until the winter meetings. They traded both of their blue chips. If they were going to trade from the MLB roster they would have in that deal.

Next year you are looking at Lester, Q and Hendricks.

Honestly the guy I'm thinking they target is Alex Cobb, 30 next year with a career 3.63 FiP, add to it he came up with Joe in TB. He is a guy that they can slot in between Lester and Q with out busting the bank. Tseng leads as the inhouse guy. If they are looking at a 1-2 year deal Doug Fister or Marco Estrada. There are many MOR to BOR to pick.

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Agreed. People shouldn't forget that Cobb has upside too but hasn't put it all back together since the surgery.

Quintana is that long term TOR type they needed to acquire, to cover for the fact that Arrieta has A) totally fallen off the grid, and B) will become a FA.

But all in all, Theo and Jed have again done their job and gave a team that much needed spark for 2nd half, Cubs can definitely do some damage with projected (L-R-L-R) Playoffs rotation of Lester, Hendricks, Quintana and Arrieta.

CSF77 said:

I think they are done until the winter meetings. They traded both of their blue chips. If they were going to trade from the MLB roster they would have in that deal.

Next year you are looking at Lester, Q and Hendricks.

Honestly the guy I'm thinking they target is Alex Cobb, 30 next year with a career 3.63 FiP, add to it he came up with Joe in TB. He is a guy that they can slot in between Lester and Q with out busting the bank. Tseng leads as the inhouse guy. If they are looking at a 1-2 year deal Doug Fister or Marco Estrada. There are many MOR to BOR to pick.

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Ok..
My post wasn't suggesting they make a deal now..
It was a response about defense



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anotheridiot said:

I still think they do a candelario and maybe Zagunis to Detroit for Avila. Of course my best case is they let Schwarber catch a few games before deciding they need that veteran catcher, but I think they still get one in a minor deal.

They redid the bullpen last year, I expect some moves to be made there. Edwards needs to settle into a role. This 8th inning 1 day and 5th or 6th the next is tough for him. Ultimately it should be Monty back in the pen to bolster that and Butler back in AAA to keep him stretched for a pop up start somewhere along the line.

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You repeatedly call for Schwarber at catcher, and refuse to explain why.

You are sacrificing D, AND replacing a good bat.

Schwarber at C is a MAJOR problem defensively at a critical defensive position. And if you say it because you simply must get his bat in the lineup, he hurts you less in LF.

None of my issue with your suggestion is based on his performance at the plate this year. I believe in his bat! I am not close to giving up on him!

But even before a knee injury, I want nothing to do with him at catcher. Makes no sense. What do we gain in any way by doing that?

TL1961 said:

You repeatedly call for Schwarber at catcher, and refuse to explain why.

You are sacrificing D, AND replacing a good bat.

Schwarber at C is a MAJOR problem defensively at a critical defensive position. And if you say it because you simply must get his bat in the lineup, he hurts you less in LF.

None of my issue with your suggestion is based on his performance at the plate this year. I believe in his bat! I am not close to giving up on him!

But even before a knee injury, I want nothing to do with him at catcher. Makes no sense. What do we gain in any way by doing that?

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Some on here were suggesting in ST he would start a bunch of games as catcher..

I kept telling them he wouldn't start any and why would he with 2 capable catchers in Contreras and Montero..
I said he'd be the emergency catcher and probably just used late in blowouts ...

If my memory correct, I think he has caught in 2 or 3 blowout games for an inning..
Their not going to use Schwarber behind the plate when they have much much better options..

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TC in Mississippi said:

Agreed. People shouldn't forget that Cobb has upside too but hasn't put it all back together since the surgery.

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Was watching his game vs Bos. He dominated them. I just the natural fit here

TL1961 said:

You repeatedly call for Schwarber at catcher, and refuse to explain why.

You are sacrificing D, AND replacing a good bat.

Schwarber at C is a MAJOR problem defensively at a critical defensive position. And if you say it because you simply must get his bat in the lineup, he hurts you less in LF.

None of my issue with your suggestion is based on his performance at the plate this year. I believe in his bat! I am not close to giving up on him!

But even before a knee injury, I want nothing to do with him at catcher. Makes no sense. What do we gain in any way by doing that?

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Because Schwarber is no worse at catcher than Montero was or Caratini is. You also put that other bat in the outfield.

I also believe that Schwarber misses watching that movement on pitches. Watch 150 pitches a game and you will see pitches differently, know what is being called balls and strikes.

Montero was horrendous, but pitchers love Miggy. Right. There is always the excuse. Right now its clogging the bench with a guy that cant hit just so we have a backup catcher.

TL1961 said:

Baez is "not hitting anywhere near Happ", but Happ plays D nowhere near Baez.

I like Happ, but one must hit a TON if not a good defender.

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Defensive metrics have Happ as above average. it's not a big enough sample size to draw a conclusion but i haven't seen him do anything particularly terrible. He's probably more average than anything but I'm taking an average defender with a very good bat over a very good defender who's a blow average bat.

anotheridiot said:

Because Schwarber is no worse at catcher than Montero was or Caratini is. You also put that other bat in the outfield.

I also believe that Schwarber misses watching that movement on pitches. Watch 150 pitches a game and you will see pitches differently, know what is being called balls and strikes.

Montero was horrendous, but pitchers love Miggy. Right. There is always the excuse. Right now its clogging the bench with a guy that cant hit just so we have a backup catcher.

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If you truly believe Montero and Scwarber are equivalent defensively, there is no point discussing this further.

If you truly believe a catcher's D is all about throwing out baserunners, there is no point discussing this further.

anotheridiot said:

Because Schwarber is no worse at catcher than Montero was or Caratini is. You also put that other bat in the outfield.

I also believe that Schwarber misses watching that movement on pitches. Watch 150 pitches a game and you will see pitches differently, know what is being called balls and strikes.

Montero was horrendous, but pitchers love Miggy. Right. There is always the excuse. Right now its clogging the bench with a guy that cant hit just so we have a backup catcher.

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Even if there is any truth to it they are NOT going to sacrifice the ERA of the staff because Schwarber needs hand eye coordination drills 9 innings a day.

You really do your name justice.

Heard the trade and hated the give but I can live with it - you're just all in with this MLB roster for the next three-four years and don't really have much protection if someone gets majorly hurt or is simply ineffective.

Cubs will be fine. Theo knows what he is doing. Add to it they are always adding AAAA guys in at Iowa for IR.

I doubt we will see a A-Ram 2009 situation where Hendry trades DeRosa and let's McGee walk at the same time. With nothing ready at Iowa.

Taking that into context. At AA they have Vosler. Pretty much blocked by Bryant and Baez. AAA guy is the top guy in the system. If they trade Candi and promote Vos to Iowa he still is not playing with Baez ahead of him.

That is why Theo and Jed were better. They built it up and used AAAA to plug vs leaving themselves exposed.

I'm not sure how I feel about this trade, while we got a good pitcher with years of control, we drained what was left of the farm. For where we're trying to go though I like it.

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I would look at it as Theo's first contract was a rebuild. This contract is winning not rebuilding. He is not worried about what happens after this one is up

The Bandit said:

I'm not sure how I feel about this trade, while we got a good pitcher with years of control, we drained what was left of the farm. For where we're trying to go though I like it.

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This isn't anywhere near the case. I've brought this up before but this isn't the 2008 cubs going all in and pillaging their farm system. There is so much under the radar talent the cubs have right now. You have to imagine some of it is going to flame out given how IFA's tend to go and prospects in general but all they've done is shear off some of the fruits of the tree. They didn't cut down the tree itself. And what's crazy is how little the MLB team needs. Assuming Almora starts in CF going forward every single starter on the MLB roster will be 27 or under and they all have big time talent. Almora is arguably the "worst" and he was a top 10 pick. They will have to find 2 more starters but Lester Hendricks and Q over the next 3 years is a pretty good start to a rotation. And bullpens can be tricky but cubs have some power arms. Matt Carasiti for example has looked really good in AAA. And dillion maples is basically untouchable in AA if he can find the strike zone. He's striking out 19 guys per 9 right now.

Honestly the depth in the cubs system even after all the trades and promotions is pretty stunning. They may not have any elite guys right now to hang your hat on but there's guys who could reach that level. Ultimately if you're worried about how the trade went look at it like this. The cubs essentially traded for Q giving up $2.8 mil in IFA dollars, a $1.5 mil 6th round draft pick, a non-drafted free agent and a 11th round pick. Now sure Eloy and Cease were good prospects but the fact that they weren't high draft picks and the fact that the cubs exploited IFA rules early to get a lot of talent lessens the loss. For example, they signed Eloy in 2013 but the first round pick in the 2013 draft was Kris Bryant.

Lackey is done

with russell issues on and off field, and Candy for second, why don't you move Baez to the defensive position? Schwarber should be allowed to be a personal catcher or traded.

1. Rizzo 1B
2. Bryant 3B/LF
3. Happ 2B
4. Zobrist RF
5. Schwarber LF/C
6. Baez SS
7. pitchers
8. Heyward CF
9. Jay.Almora

if you can bat bryant 3 and pitcher 8 you can try this and still have batters in front of rizzo

Raskolnikov said:

with russell issues on and off field, and Candy for second, why don't you move Baez to the defensive position? Schwarber should be allowed to be a personal catcher or traded.

1. Rizzo 1B
2. Bryant 3B/LF
3. Happ 2B
4. Zobrist RF
5. Schwarber LF/C
6. Baez SS
7. pitchers
8. Heyward CF
9. Jay.Almora

if you can bat bryant 3 and pitcher 8 you can try this and still have batters in front of rizzo

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That add AB's to he pitchers spot.

I look at it this way: if you avg 4 AB's per inning that puts to pitcher up in the 2nd. 4th, 6th, 7th, and 9th innings. So you need 2 PH reserved daily if the starter makes 6.

9th: 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th. So 1 less AB per game. You are again are going to use 2 PH but you are going to get 6 innings in as long as the start is respectable.

The fact you have to hit the pitcher 1 less time early on pays off in itself.

Also Zo is best in LF if you go there. Heyward was signed because WF has cross wind issues in RF. LF plays pretty strait. Very rare the wind blows to RF.

So in general RF you need your best glove. CF is small in general so yes Happ is passable. On tough CF you want Almora out there.

LF plays pretty normal. Wind in or out. If to CF then the ball will push to the better D. Schwarber seems to pass the min required test here.