Reds....

Little unfair to put this loss on the pen. They gave the team 7.1 and only gave up 4 runs. Obviously i'm not a huge grimm/wilson fan but it's a tough ask to get through 7 innings for a pen.

3 out of the 5 relievers today were complete crap. Beautiful work by Montgomery yes. Unfortunately Grimm, Wilson, and Rondon are not performing anywhere near major league material.

Seeing now there a chance Lester out for season..
Evaluated tomorrow



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PickSix said:

3 out of the 5 relievers today were complete crap. Beautiful work by Montgomery yes. Unfortunately Grimm, Wilson, and Rondon are not performing anywhere near major league material.

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But that's sort of my point. The more you get into any bullpen the worse off you are. Cubs had to use 5 relievers today and they haven't exactly cruised to victory the past couple days either meaning those guys were probably some what overworked. I'm not sitting here excusing Wilson/Grimm. Keep in mind I wasn't even thrilled with the Wilson trade the day it happened and I've prior said Grimm probably needed replacing. All I'm saying is most bullpens are going to have this sort of issue when you go that deep into them. It's not like cincy's was stellar either.

chibears55 said:

Seeing now there a chance Lester out for season..
Evaluated tomorrow



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Click to expand...

Be strongly surprised if he's out for the season. A DL stint sure seems likely but you're talking about 2 almost 2 months til the playoffs. That's a lot for what's being called a strain.

beckdawg said:

Still not digging that Wilson/Avila trade. Like I said at the time i'd have preferred going the cheap catcher route. Lucroy interestingly is 10-30(.333/.500/.467) over 42 PAs since getting dealt to the Rockies.

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eh, super small sample with games in coors. Why would the team have traded for a backup C who is R and didn't have any experience with anyone on the staff?

beckdawg said:

But that's sort of my point. The more you get into any bullpen the worse off you are. Cubs had to use 5 relievers today and they haven't exactly cruised to victory the past couple days either meaning those guys were probably some what overworked. I'm not sitting here excusing Wilson/Grimm. Keep in mind I wasn't even thrilled with the Wilson trade the day it happened and I've prior said Grimm probably needed replacing. All I'm saying is most bullpens are going to have this sort of issue when you go that deep into them. It's not like cincy's was stellar either.

Click to expand...

Exactly what the problem been with the pen is being overworked because of the SP inability to go deep into games...


Last 10 games SP innings pitched...

6
6
4
5
6
6
5
6
6
2

I know some think 6 innings is good for a SP but when that a constant throughout the rotation and you hardly get a break with a SP going longer and instead go less...
That takes a toll on a pen having to go 3 plus innings every​ night ..

Also what it does is burn up your better relievers usually twice in a 3 game span and then you can't use them for a couple games, meaning you need to hope the crappy guys can get you a game or two...

Problem with Cubs lately is the crappy guys haven't been able to get through a game or two to help hold/win a game...

They lost Rondon for 2 weeks when he was getting hot...
Uehara got hurt...

Edwards went cold for a stretch..

Grimm and Wilson been crap

Strop Montgomery Duensing been most consistent but tremendously overworked because Edwards Grimm and Wilson has sucked

Davis hasn't had many chances and has shown it with a couple rusty games...













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DanTown said:

eh, super small sample with games in coors. Why would the team have traded for a backup C who is R and didn't have any experience with anyone on the staff?

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I can see the argument for having a LH bat opposite contreras but the thing with Lucroy is if you are trading for him you're buying into him being the guy he was last year or at least something closer to that. And that player was fairly split neutral. And while it is a small-ish sample, you are talking about a player with a history of being better than he has been this year. He's clearly a change of scenery trade type. Now I'm not going to sit here and say i knew for certain he'd be better after a trade. Obviously I thought it was plausible but the thing is at the time of the trade you were looking for a vet back up behind Contreras and not necessarily a starter. I thought he was worth the gamble.

I'm not going to make a big deal about this or anything but my thinking then as it is now is neither Wilson nor Avila really did much for me and I quite liked Paredes as a trade chip. Thus far Wilson has played into my fears of dealing for relievers which is to say they often break your heart. Avila's been... whatever. I mean I never expect him to be a huge deal which is sort of the same reason I was fine on gambling with Lucroy though in the case of Lucroy his upside is big if he's back to the player he has been prior to 2017.

beckdawg said:

Little unfair to put this loss on the pen. They gave the team 7.1 and only gave up 4 runs. Obviously i'm not a huge grimm/wilson fan but it's a tough ask to get through 7 innings for a pen.

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Well, if they were just getting their asses handed to them...I'd probably agree with you. That is not the case here. 7th, 8th and 9th innings were all instigated by lead off walks...terrible anytime but absolutely unforgivable on a hitter's day at Wrigley. Those three walks all scored and the Cubs lose by three....pretty basic math right there.

chibears55 said:

Exactly what the problem been with the pen is being overworked because of the SP inability to go deep into games...


Last 10 games SP innings pitched...

6
6
4
5
6
6
5
6
6
2

I know some think 6 innings is good for a SP but when that a constant throughout the rotation and you hardly get a break with a SP going longer and instead go less...
That takes a toll on a pen having to go 3 plus innings every​ night ..

Also what it does is burn up your better relievers usually twice in a 3 game span and then you can't use them for a couple games, meaning you need to hope the crappy guys can get you a game or two...

Problem with Cubs lately is the crappy guys haven't been able to get through a game or two to help hold/win a game...

They lost Rondon for 2 weeks when he was getting hot...
Uehara got hurt...

Edwards went cold for a stretch..

Grimm and Wilson been crap

Strop Montgomery Duensing been most consistent but tremendously overworked because Edwards Grimm and Wilson has sucked

Davis hasn't had many chances and has shown it with a couple rusty games...













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Click to expand...

Think it's more about relievers getting them into jams. Obviously if guys are often going 5 then you're in trouble long term but you get 6 good innings you take that especially with an expanded pen the cubs run. But as I said my view is more the issue being guys like Edwards who've(lately) had issue getting through an inning on their own. If you have to often get 2 guys up for 1 inning and burn through 4-5 guys in a 3-4 inning span per night that's where they get over worked.

beckdawg said:

Think it's more about relievers getting them into jams. Obviously if guys are often going 5 then you're in trouble long term but you get 6 good innings you take that especially with an expanded pen the cubs run. But as I said my view is more the issue being guys like Edwards who've(lately) had issue getting through an inning on their own. If you have to often get 2 guys up for 1 inning and burn through 4-5 guys in a 3-4 inning span per night that's where they get over worked.

Click to expand...

That was the other half of what I posted..

Besides not catching a break with a SP going deep...

Yes, they had to burn their better relievers like Strop Duensing Monty because Edwards Grimm and Wilson couldn't get the job done..

So those guys has to be used twice in a 3 game span and then their unavailable when you really need them..

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