fatbeard
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I guess it's all in on Shohei Otani then.
I guess it's all in on Shohei Otani then.
CSF77
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The team would be drastically worse with that rotation.
CSF77
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Can't go all in on a guy that rakes and 1/2 of the teams in the majors can utilize that perk and you are not one of them.
CSF77
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Pitching is that valuable but we are talking 3x the control for a all star quality bat. I'll disagree with that. Add to it Alozay has #2 upside so you are underselling him.
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My favorite teams
You think the Sox didn't get enough in the Quitana trade, so it's fairly easy to see that you have no clue what is or isn't valuable.
beckdawg
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Well obviously if it's not an issue then it's not an issue but I'm guessing there's more on him than just the mets being shit. Supposedly he was suspended this year because he was late to a game or didn't show I forget. Don't care what the situation is but if you don't show up on time that's a pretty shit thing to do. I think even if he has those issues there's a price he makes sense but I don't think $2-3 million dollars is that price. I don't mind the idea of them going higher than that but I'd want the base to be around $1 mil with a lot of incentives. You need him on a contract that isn't painful to just flat out cut because I imagine he's out of options.
Long story short, I don't think you can sign him as a guy who is guaranteed a slot in the roster. You sign him as a guy competing for one in my eyes. Like I think you can't even consider him and Anderson(coming into this year) on the same level at this point because at least when healthy Anderson was good.
beckdawg
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I'd be shocked if Tampa would even consider that. Happ is an interesting player but he doesn't appear to me to be someone you build a franchise around. Alzolay is a mid rotation starter at best. Cubs gave up more than that for Quintana who most would suggest isn't as good as Archer.
TC in Mississippi
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That last bit doesn't make sense to me because when Harvey was healthy he was great, far, far better than Anderson. Two years ago n 189 innings he was 2.71 ERA 3.05 FIP 4.4 fWAR. His K/9 was 8.94 and his BB/9 was 1.76 and he was better the year before that. He was hurt all last year and struggled to come back from surgery this year but has only lost a tick in velocity. To me the comparison to Anderson is crazy. Harvey probably deserves about $5 mil per, maybe you get him cheaper, some think he'll be more costly. I get he has to prove himself but mostly he has to be healthy.
TC in Mississippi
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The Cubs traded 3 "ifs" for Quintana, Happ is more known and while Alzolay is an "if" that's a better package than the Q deal to me. That said, yeah I think it will take more. Wouldn't shock me if LA offered Puig and Verdugo for instance. That's a better deal for the Rays.
beckdawg
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I mean it's been 3 years since he came back from TJS. While true he had that crap where they take out your rib(thoritic outlet syndrom?) last year, it's not like he pitched well prior to going down and he hasn't pitched well since then. If you want to place blame on injury ok but from my stand point he's either not the same as he was pre TJS or he's an injury concern or both.
I don't really agree. If you want to argue Happ is better than Jiminez... i mean that I can see the argument for though my personal opinion is Jiminez has a higher upside. I think calling them a wash is probably fair. However, Alzolay isn't really anywhere near as talented as Cease. While true he pitched well in AA and Cease isn't out of A yet, the tools are just ok. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to run down Alzolay here but he's not a big ground ball pitcher(37.7% in A+ this year and 33.3% in AA) and he's not a big K rate guy either(more average to slightly above not really bad but also not elite). As I said, he's got the look of a mid rotation starter. And also as I said, I think most people still argue that even if Happ/Alzolay were equal to Cease/Jiminez, Archer is worth more.
CSF77
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Almost think Q and Archer are a push honestly. You could argue either way.
Way I look at it
Q equaled a top 10 and a top 100.
Happ was top 25 but he is established vs in AA.
Cease is higher ranked but comes with many questions on his ability to be a major league quality starter and may end up a closer. Azolay has a higher floor.
Now the pitcher to me is of no concern. I would trade De La Cruz if that is what it took. But TB was already doing the scouting on Alozay and he really is the highest % chance to be a rotation fixture.
If it is me I would be looking at it as Archer for a sure thing and a pretty much sure thing vs De La Cruz who has had 2 setback injuries.
beckdawg
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Even if Cease ends up in the bullpen I'm not sure that's true. Assuming neither blows out an arm and even if Cease ends up in the bullpen you're talking about a closer with ridiculous stuff vs probably a #3 starter best case. Think most front offices would take an elite closer type over say Shark or a Cashner type arm and both Shark and Cashner probably have better pure stuff than Alzolay.
CSF77
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Not sure. Shark got it up to 97 but lacked a breaking pitch. Cashner hit 98 in short stints but worked 94-95 as a starter. Alzolay works 92-95 topping at 97. So a tick below both. Fastball has run. Has a legit curve which Shark never had.
All he rally needs to do is perfect his change and he could end up a fringe 100 pitcher.
beckdawg
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https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017...-will-likely-retain-matt-harvey-for-2018.html
looks like this is all a moot point
looks like this is all a moot point
TC in Mississippi
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I don't necessarily believe him. That's a lot of money whether they're going full rebuild (which I doubt) or try to plug their holes. It would be pretty dumb to bring him back unless they are sure he'll be a lot better.
CSF77
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I get where they are at. Right now he has lost his bargaining power in arb. So he will make a uptick. Thus cutting him mid season at worse case. Trading best case.
