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  1. #1
    Senior Member chibears55's Avatar
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    Default Cubs Roster (offseason)

    As of now here is what the cubs roster looks like...

    CATCHERS
    Contreras
    Caratini

    INFIELD
    Rizzo
    Baez
    Russell
    Bryant
    Zobrist
    LaStella

    OUTFIELD
    Schwarber
    Almora
    Heyward
    Happ
    Martin

    SP
    Lester
    Quintana
    Hendrick



    RElIEVERS
    Montgomery
    Wilson
    Rondon
    Strop
    Edwards
    Grimm



    They need 2 SP and a Closer......

    They dont need to do a whole lot this off season but depending on what direction (FA or Trade) they take to get their needs will determine if some of the position players get a new look..

    Also.... the Bullpen could get some new faces to upgrade there


    My hope is Cobb and Wade Davis are first priorities right now to get deals done and then come GM meetings they can work on that TOR SP and rest of bullpen

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  3. #2
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
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    Probably 20 other teams would love those position players.

    Can put Monty in the mix for the rotation with Tseng and settle on fixing the bullpen. Still hope they can resign Jake.
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

  4. #3
    Senior Member Ari Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    Probably 20 other teams would love those position players.

    Can put Monty in the mix for the rotation with Tseng and settle on fixing the bullpen. Still hope they can resign Jake.
    I'm doubting it, mainly because I think his agent is Scott Boras. Don't think Theo & Company are going to overpay for Arrieta.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member chibears55's Avatar
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    Arrieta going to be 32 next season, he going to be looking for a 5 or 6 yr deal at at least 25 per.
    I hope the cubs are smart enough to stay away from that.

    Lester gonna be 34 and with at least 2 more years remaining on his deal after 2018, id like to see the cubs get a little younger at the TOR going forward, as Lester most likely starts to decrease with age.

    Jose Quintana 29, will hopefully take the reign and establish himself as a TOR pitcher..

    Id like to see the Cubs add another 30 or under TOR type starter this off season to join Quintana..

    As far as Montgomery goes, management already said they prefer Monty in bullpen and can be more valuable there and as an emergency starter..



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  6. #5
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
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    Jake is looking for closer to 30 and 7 years and he is a little younger with Jake.

    I dont think management prefers Monty in the pen, they have just not found that lefty that can do what he does. As far as valuable, top relievers are 6-10 million, top starters are 30 million, so as far as valuable.....
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

  7. #6
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    The problem with Monty as a starter is it utterly wrecks your bullpen if you don't bring back Davis. Right now you'd be looking at Strop setting up likely Edwards. You'd have 0 LH guys. Think he's just too valuable to them in the pen where they'd have to pay some FA lefty a rather absurd amount to replace him given what relievers get for their production. For example, I'd much rather see them spend $6-8 mil on a #5 starter than give that to a reliever.

  8. #7
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    The problem with Monty as a starter is it utterly wrecks your bullpen if you don't bring back Davis. Right now you'd be looking at Strop setting up likely Edwards. You'd have 0 LH guys. Think he's just too valuable to them in the pen where they'd have to pay some FA lefty a rather absurd amount to replace him given what relievers get for their production. For example, I'd much rather see them spend $6-8 mil on a #5 starter than give that to a reliever.
    Duensing was a guy they found, it was just not enough. I dont know what Tseng or Underwood will do in spring training, but they clearly do not have confidence in Tseng in tough situations and his stuff seems suited for the pen and once thru the lineup.

    Really dont know what went wrong with Wilson, I guess maybe Bosio will figure it out now that he is in Detroit, but they clearly do not want to keep 3 or 4 lefties in the pen, and have been looking for that guy out there, so it just seems to show that they still think Monty can be a starter. If they are not going to use him for an inning, they waste him not wanting him to throw alot unless its a long relief outing, which probably means the starter was kicked early. Everytime Maddon talks about Monty its expecting him to be a starter.
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    Duensing was a guy they found, it was just not enough. I dont know what Tseng or Underwood will do in spring training, but they clearly do not have confidence in Tseng in tough situations and his stuff seems suited for the pen and once thru the lineup.

    Really dont know what went wrong with Wilson, I guess maybe Bosio will figure it out now that he is in Detroit, but they clearly do not want to keep 3 or 4 lefties in the pen, and have been looking for that guy out there, so it just seems to show that they still think Monty can be a starter. If they are not going to use him for an inning, they waste him not wanting him to throw alot unless its a long relief outing, which probably means the starter was kicked early. Everytime Maddon talks about Monty its expecting him to be a starter.
    Not sure why you think Tseng is suited for the bullpen. He's like the anthesis of what I consider a good bullpen pitcher. He's a low walk rate pitch to contact guy. That screams back end starter. Also not sure why you think they lack confidence in him. He only threw 6 innings after being called up but that's not because they lack confidence in him. It's because he's a 22 year old pitcher who's previous innings peak was 119.0 and he'd thrown 145.1 in AA/AAA. He was never going to throw much for the major league team.

  10. #9
    PLAYOFFS?!? Shawon0Meter's Avatar
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    Cobb

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
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    As of now here is what the cubs roster looks like...

    CATCHERS
    Contreras
    Caratini

    INFIELD
    Rizzo
    Baez
    Russell
    Bryant
    Zobrist
    LaStella

    OUTFIELD
    Schwarber
    Almora
    Heyward
    Happ
    Martin

    SP
    Lester
    Quintana
    Hendrick



    RElIEVERS
    Montgomery
    Wilson
    Rondon
    Strop
    Edwards
    Grimm



    They need 2 SP and a Closer......

    They dont need to do a whole lot this off season but depending on what direction (FA or Trade) they take to get their needs will determine if some of the position players get a new look..

    Also.... the Bullpen could get some new faces to upgrade there


    My hope is Cobb and Wade Davis are first priorities right now to get deals done and then come GM meetings they can work on that TOR SP and rest of bullpen

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  12. #11
    1-888-NEED-HIM brett05's Avatar
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    The team has it's TOR in Q. They need to look at the 5 spot. I agree with Beck that money is better spent as a #5 than in the pen
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  13. #12
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    The team has it's TOR in Q. They need to look at the 5 spot. I agree with Beck that money is better spent as a #5 than in the pen
    They need a RHSP to slot between Q and Lester. Archer would be ideal. Nola Iím thinking would be the 4 and make Hendricks the 2. It would be a plan if the demand for Archer gets too pricy.

    I believe that Theo and Jed drafted with this in mind. Bats are higher % of success then pitching. With the resource choked up with talent they would use the excess to trade for pitching. They have done this with Butler, Mills, Montgomery, Davis, Wilson, Q etc.

    So their plan has worked but the source has been tapped and they now have to look at the 25 man excess to find pitching.

    They will have to depend on the system for pitching now. What they did worked but they have had enough time to build it up from the bottom up to produce pitching

  14. #13
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    Not sure why you think Tseng is suited for the bullpen. He's like the anthesis of what I consider a good bullpen pitcher. He's a low walk rate pitch to contact guy. That screams back end starter. Also not sure why you think they lack confidence in him. He only threw 6 innings after being called up but that's not because they lack confidence in him. It's because he's a 22 year old pitcher who's previous innings peak was 119.0 and he'd thrown 145.1 in AA/AAA. He was never going to throw much for the major league team.
    Just simply one time thru the lineup. The confidence was simply all the butterflies he had his first start where he was damn near shaking on the mound. He also has that floating ball trick pitch that just plain looks unhittable and a mixup from just about every pitcher we have.

    He has to prove he can handle that before he gets any real shot at this rotation. I would much prefer they give him a shot instead of getting a pitcher that is not Jake for 160 million.

    Lester, Hendricks, Q, Monty, Tseng, Underwood, Butler maybe have a shot? Alozay should be in AA next season and is a potential ace. Is he being targeted when Lester or Hendricks leaves?
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

  15. #14
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    Just simply one time thru the lineup. The confidence was simply all the butterflies he had his first start where he was damn near shaking on the mound. He also has that floating ball trick pitch that just plain looks unhittable and a mixup from just about every pitcher we have.

    He has to prove he can handle that before he gets any real shot at this rotation. I would much prefer they give him a shot instead of getting a pitcher that is not Jake for 160 million.

    Lester, Hendricks, Q, Monty, Tseng, Underwood, Butler maybe have a shot? Alozay should be in AA next season and is a potential ace. Is he being targeted when Lester or Hendricks leaves?
    Alozay would be a 2019 potential. Maybe at earliest end of 2018.

    I'm predicting AAA will be Tseng, Mills, Butler and 2 spots left up for competition.

    AA: Alozay and Hatch should be locks. Steele has proved that he is ready to progress.

    That really leaves Clifton and Underwood. Both really did not dominate at AA. So they might go to Iowa or be pushed into MR. Not sure but talent may force that issue.

    DeLa Cruz lost a year and has pitcher 2 innings at AZL. IDK with him honestly. Most likely he goes to the winter leagues and repeats MB next year. Maybe a AA call up after he proves his arm is sound.

    Albertos should be at SB next spring. He should be a 1 year per stage with his age. Lange and Little should get challenged more and you can expect the same progression Hatch.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Alozay would be a 2019 potential. Maybe at earliest end of 2018.

    I'm predicting AAA will be Tseng, Mills, Butler and 2 spots left up for competition.

    AA: Alozay and Hatch should be locks. Steele has proved that he is ready to progress.

    That really leaves Clifton and Underwood. Both really did not dominate at AA. So they might go to Iowa or be pushed into MR. Not sure but talent may force that issue.

    DeLa Cruz lost a year and has pitcher 2 innings at AZL. IDK with him honestly. Most likely he goes to the winter leagues and repeats MB next year. Maybe a AA call up after he proves his arm is sound.

    Albertos should be at SB next spring. He should be a 1 year per stage with his age. Lange and Little should get challenged more and you can expect the same progression Hatch.
    Williams will be in AAA if he doesn't make the MLB roster. De La Cruz I'm guessing may go to extended spring training and then to AA rather than A+. He'll be on the 40 man so they need to get him moving. And he pitched well in A+ so it's not really a question of ability with him. More a question of durability. AA is going to be crowded honestly. Hatch, Steele, Rucker, Alzolay, De La Cruz, Duncan Robinson all could start in AA. Wouldn't surprise me if one or more of them end up getting move via trade.

    Albertos i think will move faster than you're suggesting. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they start in in A+. His stuff was dominating in A- with 10.90 k/9. Even if he doesn't start there I'm guessing he's in A+ by midseason with an eye toward AA in 2019. Lange almost certainly will be in A+. He pitched 3 years in the SEC. You don't get more prepared than that. He has the durability already on his arm. Little I think maybe is in A. He didn't pitch amazingly in A- but maybe they feel he's ready for A+. Lot depends on the younger guys who go to A like Javier Assad. You got guys like Bailey Clark, Jesus Camargo, Matt Swarmer, Enrique De Los Rios, Cory Abbott, Keegan Thompson and so on who may fill up your A roster quickly. Presumably the best of the A- guys are going to A+ along with some of the worst of the AA group.

  17. #16
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
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    I usually donít concider guys off the top 30 in general. To me they are just pawns on the chess board. But sometimes they become queens like Alozay did. Rucker is a wildcard. I really donít know what to make of him right now and I really donít see him and Robertson pushing any of the ranked prospects aside.

  18. #17
    Senior Member DanTown's Avatar
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    Adbert maybe makes the back end of the rotation and moves up but he's not a guy that I ever expect to be a staff ace. I don't know if the Cubs even have an arm like that in the system after they traded Cease. Maybe if you squint Albertos gets there if he takes another step in his development because doing what he's doing at 18 is far more projectable to being a future TOR than de la Cruz/Alzolay are doing at 22.

    I think the two older guys could be end of the year 2018 bullpen arms potentially and future BOR arms in 2019 if they put together solid 2018 spring training and first half of the year to the point de la Cruz makes AA this year and Alzolay starts in AA and moves to Iowa at some point. When I look at the Cubs pitchers, I see a lot of quantity and not a ton of quality. It would not surprise me if seven Cubs make the rotation at some point (Clifton, Lange, Alzolay, de La Cruz, Albertos, Hatch, Tseng) but I only think one them (Albertos) would ever be a #2 on a legitimate contending team and the rest would top out as a #4.

    If I had to guess where they end up this year
    Albertos - A+ to start, maybe AA by the end of the year with very strong year + someone above him needs to move up/down but unlikely makes that jump this year before age 20.
    Lange - A+ for most of the year unless he truly breaks out and moves quickly

    de la Cruz - AA with a strong spring training where the organization sees future value; A+ if he regresses or stalls out
    Alzolay - AA with an eye on AAA if he quickly pitches well
    Hatch - AA with an eye to AAA as he's older (23) who needs to advance and if he flames out, he flames out
    Clifton - AA and very little chance to move up due to last year so unless he truly dominates, probably there for the majority of the year
    Rucker - AA after such a strong year in A+ and the fact he's turning 24 in April, makes sense to push him and see where he ends up.

    Tseng - AAA/Majors - See how the offseason breaks for him and then how spring training goes

    Other notables
    Underwood - Likely to become a AA or AAA reliever due to the fact he simply has never put it all together as a starter; poor mans CJ Edwards potentially
    Little - Likely going to A ball as a starter but really seems better suited in the bullpen long term

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    I usually don’t concider guys off the top 30 in general. To me they are just pawns on the chess board. But sometimes they become queens like Alozay did. Rucker is a wildcard. I really don’t know what to make of him right now and I really don’t see him and Robertson pushing any of the ranked prospects aside.
    Well sure they aren't pushing top ranked guys aside but they still need a spot to pitch. And the thing is they are older so typically unless you have a big reason not to older guys go up the chain first.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTown View Post
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    Adbert maybe makes the back end of the rotation and moves up but he's not a guy that I ever expect to be a staff ace. I don't know if the Cubs even have an arm like that in the system after they traded Cease. Maybe if you squint Albertos gets there if he takes another step in his development because doing what he's doing at 18 is far more projectable to being a future TOR than de la Cruz/Alzolay are doing at 22.

    I think the two older guys could be end of the year 2018 bullpen arms potentially and future BOR arms in 2019 if they put together solid 2018 spring training and first half of the year to the point de la Cruz makes AA this year and Alzolay starts in AA and moves to Iowa at some point. When I look at the Cubs pitchers, I see a lot of quantity and not a ton of quality. It would not surprise me if seven Cubs make the rotation at some point (Clifton, Lange, Alzolay, de La Cruz, Albertos, Hatch, Tseng) but I only think one them (Albertos) would ever be a #2 on a legitimate contending team and the rest would top out as a #4.

    If I had to guess where they end up this year
    Albertos - A+ to start, maybe AA by the end of the year with very strong year + someone above him needs to move up/down but unlikely makes that jump this year before age 20.
    Lange - A+ for most of the year unless he truly breaks out and moves quickly

    de la Cruz - AA with a strong spring training where the organization sees future value; A+ if he regresses or stalls out
    Alzolay - AA with an eye on AAA if he quickly pitches well
    Hatch - AA with an eye to AAA as he's older (23) who needs to advance and if he flames out, he flames out
    Clifton - AA and very little chance to move up due to last year so unless he truly dominates, probably there for the majority of the year
    Rucker - AA after such a strong year in A+ and the fact he's turning 24 in April, makes sense to push him and see where he ends up.

    Tseng - AAA/Majors - See how the offseason breaks for him and then how spring training goes

    Other notables
    Underwood - Likely to become a AA or AAA reliever due to the fact he simply has never put it all together as a starter; poor mans CJ Edwards potentially
    Little - Likely going to A ball as a starter but really seems better suited in the bullpen long term
    Largely agree where you p ut guys but I imagi ne they probably push clifton to AAA.. As for the TOR debate, my book is Albertos has the tools. Obviously we need to see more long term before you go proclaiming him to be there but I've seen scouting reports that put him with 3 60 grade pitches and I've seen comparison to him and Urias. I think De La Cruz has potential to be a #1 but he looks more like a good #2 if things go right in my eyes. Only other guy I'd put there from what I've seen is lange. If you strike out 10 per 9 in 3 straight years in the SEC you're seriously good. Alzolay to me is a #3 with #2 top end. Cory Abbott looked fantastic in limited action. Want to see more before I judge him. Keegan Thompson is also someone I want to see more of. Statistically(college numbers) he looks like Hendricks only the scouting has his stuff being a touch better. Plus like Lange he comes from a background of solid competition with good results.

  21. #20
    Senior Member anotheridiot's Avatar
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    Its nice to actually have some promise in the systems for starter material when all these contracts start to kick into big dollars.
    109 years since the last back to back world titles

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    I am surprised in the lack of interest on this board in Henderson Alvarez. 26 years old, throws 98 mph, ground ball pitcher, and very cheap as he has been hurt the last two years.

    Sign him on a 1 year prove it deal for minimum and have him battle it out in ST for that 5th spot. If we can get him back to 2014 levels, when he was 12th in Cy Young voting we could have our depth that is needed.

  23. #22
    Senior Member CSF77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckdawg View Post
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    Largely agree where you p ut guys but I imagi ne they probably push clifton to AAA.. As for the TOR debate, my book is Albertos has the tools. Obviously we need to see more long term before you go proclaiming him to be there but I've seen scouting reports that put him with 3 60 grade pitches and I've seen comparison to him and Urias. I think De La Cruz has potential to be a #1 but he looks more like a good #2 if things go right in my eyes. Only other guy I'd put there from what I've seen is lange. If you strike out 10 per 9 in 3 straight years in the SEC you're seriously good. Alzolay to me is a #3 with #2 top end. Cory Abbott looked fantastic in limited action. Want to see more before I judge him. Keegan Thompson is also someone I want to see more of. Statistically(college numbers) he looks like Hendricks only the scouting has his stuff being a touch better. Plus like Lange he comes from a background of solid competition with good results.
    Alozay needs to refine his change. That pitch will make or break him.

    Albertos is still raw. Needs to improve his command. As far as the raw tools he has ace projection

    De La Cruz is the closest in terms of refinement. He needs to prove he is healthy. This year I see him pushed to Iowa if he is able to get deep into games. That is going to be a telling card for me. If they are PC him to death then honestly this will be a get into shape season. And honestly that is back burner stuff and not pushing guys out of his way issues.

    So Iím looking more into the nuts and bolts with them this year. Are they getting 100 pitchers per game or not? How many innings are they avg per game? Are they getting starts skipped etc.

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