Cubs offseason rumors/transactions

I'm fine with them not going after Davis at that price. I've felt for awhile the "move" was to deal for a more controllable guy like Colome to add depth though obviously the right trade needs to present itself. I just hope they aren't done because while I think their current group of relievers could be ok, if something goes wrong they don't have many outs. Would prefer they were over invested in relievers rather than under invested.

So there's a lot of smoke around cubs/machado rumors. Heyman has indicated that Monty was in the cubs offer which sorta makes sense. And if we're using the Heyward to STL trade as a measuring stick as most people seem to think it's similar value/age to machado, that deal was Heyward and Walden who was coming off a year that was roughly equivalent to Strop last year for Tyrell Jenkins and Shelby Miller. Jenkins isn't much of a prospect these days and wasn't a huge one then. He's roughly equivalent to someone like hatch.

What strikes me as interesting is the Miller vs monty comp. Miller was supposed to be an ace. But after 2 years in the majors with the cards looked more like a mid rotation starter. And his numbers aren't that different than Monty's. Granted Monty is like 28 I think and Miller was 23. So I think you can make the argument that Miller was worth more then than Monty is now but good LHP is hard to find for starters.

Regardless, think the point here is this talk of Russell for Machado doesn't make much sense. The difference between Miller and Monty is not Russell. One thing I do think could be interesting though is if the O's included Brad Brach. If you're selling machado you are punting the season and don't need a good set up guy in Brach. And like Walden in the Heyward deal I think that could add a little something that gets the O's a player they want. Brach's got one year left in arbitration so that would be another reason they would deal him.

Not entirely sure what the package to get Machado/Brach would cost. I'm think something like Monty/Hatch + another good player though likely a prospect rather than the typical Schwarber/Happ/Baez/Russell talk. Machado's great but you're only getting 1 year of him at $17 mil so he's not exactly cheap. Plus if you're taking on that kind of money you likely want to have Baez/Russell as a centerpiece for a trade to get a starter because machado's pushing you up against the luxury tax and you would be able to get Darvish.

beckdawg said:

I'm fine with them not going after Davis at that price. I've felt for awhile the "move" was to deal for a more controllable guy like Colome to add depth though obviously the right trade needs to present itself. I just hope they aren't done because while I think their current group of relievers could be ok, if something goes wrong they don't have many outs. Would prefer they were over invested in relievers rather than under invested.

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I never wanted the Cubs to sign Wade, I thought he would get a lot of money and he did. Personally im happy w r pen, I think it’s very good. R pen was very good in first half last season and I think it should be better then that this year. I think when Koji got injured it really hurt r depth and put to much pressure to count on C.J. I think we have enough high leverage guys where we won’t be forced to count on CJ if he doesn’t have his good stuff that day. Cishek, CJ, Srop r high leverage guys. Wilson has the upside to be a high leverage guy and I expect him to return to that. That’s 5 high leverage guys if u include Morrow the closer. That’s pretty solid to me. Also have solid options like Monty and Maples that have the upside to be high leverage guys as well. I dno if people r just spoiled, but this pen seems pretty darn good to me, but yea beck it would be nice to be over invested, but I don’t think were under invested at all right now. I do hope CJ improves his control next year, that would be huge!

I do think we need to sign DArvish or trade for a SP tho! I’m getting impatient lol.

That Wade Davis deal will look bad by the end of next year if not sooner. I won't guess O/U saves because it's stupid and managers run guys out in the ninth they shouldn't but I'd take the under of a 4.0 fWAR over the life of that deal and he just got 67 million guaranteed for those four years.

I really hope they have something on hold..

Kind of disappointing so far with how this offseason going...

Chatwood and Morrow cant be their biggest move..

Still dont know who taking over CF either

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Should the cubs pursue Greg Holland?

TC in Mississippi said:

I might have been OK with 3/$45 mil but it's an overpay and I never given the 4th year vesting option. Davis' BB/9 scares the hell out of me. Colorado went Davis because Holland is supposedly holding firm at 5/$85 mil, and holding fast to the 5th year if not the money. I'm good with Morrow getting a shot.

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Wtf? A team would be crazy to give Holland that contract.

Cubs need to sign Yu, everything else can be solved "inside the house".

Rockies will end up trading relievers at deadline

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Cubs probably end up with Addison Reed to close

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chibears55 said:

Cubs probably end up with Addison Reed to close

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Rather they invest into Yu.

Hammer said:

Cubs need to sign Yu, everything else can be solved "inside the house".

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I tend to agree here. Cubs have added depth into the pen. I’m not against letting Morrow prove himself

Jeff Passan
✔
@JeffPassan
Among Wade Davis, Jake McGee and Bryan Shaw, the Rockies now have guaranteed $106M to relief pitchers this winter. Add in Mike Dunn and Adam Ottavino, and they may have the most expensive bullpen in baseball history -- upward of $50M this season.

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Strikes me as interesting.

CSF77 said:

Rather they invest into Yu.

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They can afford both

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CSF77 said:

I tend to agree here. Cubs have added depth into the pen. I’m not against letting Morrow prove himself

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I don't have any confidence in Morrow as closer... he also not much of a strikeout pitcher either, that would help get out of jams...


Depth???
Where the depth?

They lost Duensing Rondon Davis and Uehara

They added Chisek Alvarez and Morrow

Not depth, just replaced a couple guys they lost...

They need a legit closer

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Jeff Passan

[emoji818]

@JeffPassan

Among Wade Davis, Jake McGee and Bryan Shaw, the Rockies now have guaranteed $106M to relief pitchers this winter. Add in Mike Dunn and Adam Ottavino, and they may have the most expensive bullpen in baseball history -- upward of $50M this season.

beckdawg said:

Strikes me as interesting.

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That somewhat of what i expected the cubs to do this offseason...

strengthening their pen via FA and trades..
Still can be done if they add a legit closer with Morrow and Chisek

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chibears55 said:

Jeff Passan

[emoji818]

@JeffPassan

Among Wade Davis, Jake McGee and Bryan Shaw, the Rockies now have guaranteed $106M to relief pitchers this winter. Add in Mike Dunn and Adam Ottavino, and they may have the most expensive bullpen in baseball history -- upward of $50M this season.That somewhat of what i expected the cubs to do this offseason...

strengthening their pen via FA and trades..
Still can be done if they add a legit closer with Morrow and Chisek

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Nah i never thought the cubs would go that ham on relievers via FA. I could see the argument for one big guy(in this case Morrow apparently) and a trade but seeing them drop that kind of money in FA wasn't going to happen.

My opinion is a developing pitcher will most likely fall out of baseball. Of the ones that do make it the odds are far higher that they end up in the pen then the rotation.

So honestly I don’t agree with deep investments into the pen in general. That is where your self developments ends up if they cut it.

Hendricks is the only developed pitcher that is a starter. But pen arms? Edwards: failed starter. Maples: failed starter. Rondon: failed starter. The list goes on.

Honestly IMO a pen should be self developed. Most are failed starters and set ups have strong out pitches. A closer has been around the longest and is the most reliable arm. Sure you can add a F/A to fill a role that you do not have the arm for but in general the base is your own and pretty cheap.

But sense SP is far more rare to depend on via self development and trading your system for some one else’s efforts kills your system fast. It is wiser to buy SP that is established. Period. I can see having a spot open for a live arm that is ready but Cubs only have Tseng ready and He should be in AAA building up innings.

Now in their situation: they have a closer and a legit set up. They have Edwards and Miller who are better vs RH hitting. They added a LOOGY which they lacked last year. They still have Strop and Grimm as hold overs. That is 7 guys and that doesn’t get into Montgomery’s roll or Maples (who should be in IOWA until his B.B./9 are respectable)

Would it be nice? Sure but no. I believe they are locking into Yu now after coming short on Otani. Sure if they won that then they most likely take that savings and go after Wade. But that door shut they went cheaper on the pen and are aiming for the top arm.

chibears55 said:

I don't have any confidence in Morrow as closer... he also not much of a strikeout pitcher either, that would help get out of jams...


Depth???
Where the depth?

They lost Duensing Rondon Davis and Uehara

They added Chisek Alvarez and Morrow

Not depth, just replaced a couple guys they lost...

They need a legit closer

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Morrow had a 10.31 K/9 in 2017. This team needs a starter far more than an established closer and they couldn’t pay Davis $18 mil AAV and still have money for Darvish, or even taking in another pitcher’s salary in trade. Not staying under the tax threshold and still having some room to maneuver at the deadline. Plus Davis BB/9 scared the hell out of me. Relax with expected improvement from Edwards and Wilson this is a much better bullpen right damned now.

TC in Mississippi said:

Morrow had a 10.31 K/9 in 2017. This team needs a starter far more than an established closer and they couldn’t pay Davis $18 mil AAV and still have money for Darvish, or even taking in another pitcher’s salary in trade. Not staying under the tax threshold and still having some room to maneuver at the deadline. Plus Davis BB/9 scared the hell out of me. Relax with expected improvement from Edwards and Wilson this is a much better bullpen right damned now.

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They need a closer.....

It didn't have to be Davis, Addison Reed and Greg Holland are still available. Both are affordable

Adding a closer will make the rest of the pen stronger over hoping Morrow can do that job and the rest can get it to him..


Last thing they need to be doing now is spending more prospects on a needed closer at the deadline








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