Truth be Told - Bears have some Talent. And SHIT Coaching.

gpphat

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Gotta love this Teddy KFC thread...types out detailed ass posts to state the obvious. Thanks for the insight that the unimaginative shit coaching has been a problem for this team. Could never have come up with that without your help.
 

dabears70

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Define talent. Are these difference makers? We don't have a single guy in our secondary with more than 1 INT. Floyd flashes but he can't stay on the field and he's not consistent. I don't believe Meredith has a catch this year. Whitehair digressed. What has Shaheen shown you making you think he can be elite? Trevathon has been injured in each season with us and played like crap last year. He can't be counted on. Sitton is solid but old but overall, the OL, is not good. Jackson has potential but he's had some bad games and only has 1 INT too.

Just because people play and start on the Bears does not mean they are making a difference. Those are all role players. That does not mean they have no talent. It means their talent level is not good enough to make us a winning team. We are a terrible team right now that lacks difference makers.


Ummmmmmmm so are you gonna answer the question about if those players have talent or not? You said we have no talent anywhere but RB and DL and i names quite a few players that seem to have talent and some have plenty of it.

So if any of our DB's only have 1 INT then they don't have talent?

Whitehair has hit the good old sophomore slump but CLEARLY has talent, maybe you don't think so but i think he does.

Ummmmmmm who said anything about Shaheen being elite? I put him down as having talent. I don't have much to go on cause our HC won't play him enough but i've seen enough to say he has talent.

Trevathon played like crap last year? Ummmmmm no he didn't.

Sitton absolutely has talent and is only 31 which means for a o-lineman he easily has another 3-4-5 years left in him. People need to get over the once a player hits 30 means they're too old to play football cause that's not the case at all. RB's are the only position you can say that about.

Jackson has had some bad games? No way not a 4th round rookie having a bad game or two....lol. Oops i forgot that he only has 1 INT so that means he doesn't have talent.

Yes we are a bad team right now and i'm glad you were able to see that but that doesn't mean we don't have talent cause we do. What this team needs is a couple of play makers at certain positions like of course WR and OLB to play opposite Floyd. It would be nice to get a play maker in the secondary as well and i mentioned in another thread that i'd love to let Fuller walk and sign T.Johnson (CB Rams)
 

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His points stand though even though you decide not to engage with them....

- the Bears roster compared to the rest of the league is bad to mediocre.
- the fact that we might only have lost by a touchdown does not necessarily mean the bulk of games were close. Our coach’s entire gameplan is to try and keep the score close by reducing or nullifying the talent gap (even on the rare occasion we have the advantage) and making a play at the end (with four playmakers). It has worked three times but, despite the closeness of the scoreline, we were dominated by the 49ers, a Hundley-led Packers and the two other teams in our division. This doesn’t happen to a talented team.
- having four playmakers after three offseasons IS pretty bad, particularly as Pace correctly identified this as a problem when he was hired.
 

Teddy KGB

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Gotta love this Teddy KFC thread...types out detailed ass posts to state the obvious. Thanks for the insight that the unimaginative shit coaching has been a problem for this team. Could never have come up with that without your help.
Hi Novak!

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Teddy KGB

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I tried. You and Teddy enjoy your feud with a guy that hasn't been here in months. Whatever he did to you two really messed you guys up.
Whatever you need to tell yourself and your 15 alts to help you sleep at night, Novak. ;)

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First off, I never said we had no talent. bears70 said I said that. I said we have limited talent. Therefore, I wanted to know what talent meant to him. I think the level of talent on our team equates to having a last place team in the NFCN as well as being one of the worst teams in the league.

To me, a difference maker is a guy who the other team has to game plan and account for. Howard would be that. Perhaps Floyd will become that. A good WR is that. A shutdown CB is that. You get the drift. Those guys have more talent than others who are mostly just role players. Typically, difference makers are those you see making the most money, getting voted to the Pro Bowl, etc. Our team lacks difference makers but has a handful of supporting role players enough of such to keep us firmly planted in last place.

If others without bias towards our team rated our players versus the rest of the league, I believe you'd see a low overall rating. Fair enough?


I like how you've conveniently gone from saying we don't have talent to now saying we don't have difference makers...lol. If you would of said Difference makers or play makers instead of no talent then we wouldn't even be having this debate cause i've said many times that we need a couple of play makers.
 

Teddy KGB

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Peter, I already addressed those points in previous posts. Him or you restating them like a chant doesn't make it true, nor do I need to respond to each and every person who parrots the same things others already said, snowflake...

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Teddy KGB

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I like how you've conveniently gone from saying we don't have talent to now saying we don't have difference makers...lol. If you would of said Difference makers or play makers instead of no talent then we wouldn't even be having this debate cause i've said many times that we need a couple of play makers.
Yup. Moving the goalposts. Its how you know the argument was emotion-driven bullshit to begin with.

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#1 WR (go-to guy), #1 CB (shutdown corner), OLB (high quality pass rusher) are most pressing needs for 2018 Offseason, alongside top notch coaching staff (HC, OC, DC).

Secondary needs/issues would be to resign WRs Inman, Meredith, CBs Amukamara, Fuller, plus sign higher quality RT (maybe even C).

Also, if they can find talented wideouts, pass rushers, O-line and secondary players in Draft, more power to them.
Btw. 3 guys I like in Top 10 of 2018 Draft are CB/S Fitzpatrick, OLBs Chubb and Key.
 

dabears70

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I think based on your last 2 posts, I figured out whats going on.

People are conflating the word talent with the word playmakers.

The Bears have talent. They have a solid foundation on defense and RB, and a couple pieces with potential on offense. What they lack are playmakers, and I agree on this.

Confirmed playmakers to me are Howard, Cohen, Trevathan and Hicks. I see potential with better coaching with Mitch, Shaheen, Floyd, and Jackson. Yes, there needs to be more playmakers.

But you also need to field a team.

Any idiot who says they expected the Bears to be further along is ignoring the 7 years before Pace, where close to 99% of the picks made in that time period AREN'T EVEN IN THE LEAGUE ANYMORE.

You don't recover from that talent deficit in 3 years, modern NFL or not.

That said, look at the number of games the Bears lost by less than a touchdown. They are close. They do need playmakers, but they need better coaching too. Under better coaching, this team is 7-9, 8-8 this year. The coaching has been THAT bad.

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They don't and won't get it TKGB. They don't think all the bad drafting before Pace got here has anything to do with why his rebuild is taking longer then we hoped it would take. All they see is losses but don't understand all the things that went into the reasons for those losses. It's a hell of a lot more then what Pace has done in free agency and the draft.
 

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Peter, I already addressed those points in previous posts. Him or you restating them like a chant doesn't make it true, nor do I need to respond to each and every person who parrots the same things others already said, snowflake...

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From a pure talent point of view, name me six rosters you think are worse than the Bears right now.
 

PeterMbangala

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They don't think all the bad drafting before Pace got here has anything to do with why his rebuild is taking longer then we hoped it would take.

Not true. It’s obviously part of the problem. It’s just that we should be further along by now. This is the consensus opinion on the board, among the fan base at large and across the media both locally and nationally.

All they see is losses but don't understand all the things that went into the reasons for those losses. It's a hell of a lot more then what Pace has done in free agency and the draft.

Reasons...

- bad talent
- bad coaching
- bad ownership
 

gpphat

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Hi Novak!

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Whatever you need to tell yourself and your 15 alts to help you sleep at night, Novak. ;)

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you always seem to start calling posters Novak right before you fade away...you have become too predictable
 

dabears70

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Not true. It’s obviously part of the problem. It’s just that we should be further along by now. This is the consensus opinion on the board, among the fan base at large and across the media both locally and nationally.



Reasons...

- bad talent
- bad coaching
- bad ownership

It is true. Who is it that makes the rules for how long a rebuild should take anyway? Fans? Writers? I would have to think that it depends on what you start with and how you're going about doing the rebuild. Some teams do their rebuild spending big money in free agency and i would think those are the rebuilds that go a little quicker compared to the teams that are doing their rebuild primarily through the draft. I just don't see how ANYONE can put a time limit on a rebuild, especially people who have absolutely nothing to do with that team besides being a fan or writing about that team.
 

HeHateMe

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As much time as it takes for you to learn proper punctuation.

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Why am I not surprised that your only response to a legimate direct question is to deflect and not answer it and instead proceed with what one would perceive to be a literal personal attack with zero evidence or substance to back it up? The answer is because I like literally everyone on this board knows you have zero credibility with the exception of DABEARS70, who has only slightly more credibility than you, which can only be measured in zeroes. I appreciate and am grateful to you as always for literally proving each and every point I make in regards to your postings and general exemplification of your character and overall worth.


Thanks.
 

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It is true. Who is it that makes the rules for how long a rebuild should take anyway? Fans? Writers? I would have to think that it depends on what you start with and how you're going about doing the rebuild. Some teams do their rebuild spending big money in free agency and i would think those are the rebuilds that go a little quicker compared to the teams that are doing their rebuild primarily through the draft. I just don't see how ANYONE can put a time limit on a rebuild, especially people who have absolutely nothing to do with that team besides being a fan or writing about that team.

Three years into the rebuild and the majority of people connected to the Bears (fans, beat reporters, media) believe we are a long way from being competitive with a roster full of holes. All this in the context of decades of futility, poor ownership decisions, bad hires and draft wastelands.

You exist outside of this consensus, and it is an overwhelming consensus and not just a few nut job meatballs that you can dismiss on an internet forum. You and Teddy have faith that Pace is building this the right way (through the draft, as if there is any other way lol). I give you credit at least for realising that Pace needs to hit in free agency in the off season. I have nothing against people taking a contrarian view, each to their own. But Teddy in particular repeatedly picks the most ludicrous Pace Hater comment he can find and attacks that rather than the more thoughtful criticisms.

I was listening yesterday to a guy who I respect enormously, Louis Riddick, telling me we are light years behind the Giants in terms of the appeal to a HC. This is a team that has been an unmitigated disaster this year but has a legitimately talented young roster, with actual superstars (OBJ, Collins) as opposed to nice pieces (Floyd, Howard). He evaluates Pace’s record as patchy and thinks he is seen as at best neutral and at worst a sitting duck GM with limited job security. This tallies with my own evaluation.

I feel that you both look at the Bears roster in isolation rather than comparing it to the league. I like Floyd, Howard, Cohen, Shaheen, Trevathan, Hicks (love me some Hicks). I can see the potential in Trubisky, Jackson and a couple of others. But as a roster, this is currently a bottom 6 roster in terms of talent. There are no superstars. Howard and Floyd are probably the closest we have. Even the Browns have Garrett. The Jets have Williams and Adams. The Giants have OBJ and Collins. The Colts have Luck and Hooker. The Texans have Watson and Hopkins. The 49ers are the only other superstar-less team I can think of and we just lost to them at home.

We have no elite talent, three or four very good players (Howard, Hicks, Trevathan, Floyd) and some young players with potential. Can you see the difference?
 

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I agree with OP. The coaching staff is making mistakes that even casual fans wouldn't make.

I get that the offense doesn't have a lot of weapons, but for fuck's sake, all you have to do is look at the box score and see that your running backs had 2.9 yards per carry while your quarterback was 12/15 for 102 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 117.2 rating, and any person with even a casual knowledge of football can understand that the problem was that the team wasn't passing enough, which is exactly what everyone on this board has been complaining about all season.
 

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It’s human nature when something goes wrong to look to assign blame. The coaching has been absolutely horrible and is certainly a huge part of the problem. But it’s not all of it. I don’t see how you can look at, for example, the current WR shitshow and put this 100% on coaching which appears to be the position of the OP.

I actually agree with the title of this thread. The coaching has been shit and the roster does have SOME talent. I just don’t believe that some talent is a great return on three years.
 

Washington

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There are what - 3 players left on the team since Pace took it over? Therefore, this team is all his. When you replace players, your goal is to replace them with better players. Pace has not done that.

Our best year was in 2015 before Pace totally dismantled the team and replaced it with his players. How can that be?

I don't care how anybody slices it. We are a last place team and one of the worst in the league due to the overall talent level on the team. That can't be very difficult to understand. This is not a playoff team waiting for better coaching. This is a poor team that can be better with better coaching but it lacks the overall talent necessary to win consistently in the NFL. I don't understand how the Pace nutsuckers can't admit this. Please, call a spade a spade. Those questioning the rebuild have listed the good, albeit very rare, moves Pace has made.
 

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I'll beg to differ. I think we lack the playmakers other teams have, but in terms of talent, middle of the pack on defense, offense needs some love.

But again, where does talent end and coaching begin? How do you tell the difference between a player with no talent, and one who has talent but is poorly coached?

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Nobody has ever said the players have no talent. You and bears70 have to stop reading that into every post. FFS, they would not be in the Pros if they were not talented. The problem is that they are not as talented as you and bears70 think they are. If they were, it would be reflected on the field and if you watch this team, you will see that they suck and are one of the worst in the league. This is fact.

Once again, if a non-biased NFL scout were to rank our players in comparison to the others in the league, the Bears would score very low.
 

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