- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 41,365
- Liked Posts:
- 23,651
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
Other than his 1st coach hire and 1st draft scouts, I think it's been Pace's show. Quality of which is still quite debateable.
Other than his 1st coach hire and 1st draft scouts, I think it's been Pace's show. Quality of which is still quite debateable.
satchice
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,720
- Liked Posts:
- 1,463
- Location:
- Schaumburg
My favorite teams
That is fine, but for my little experiment I looked though the play by play of Watson 3rd down passes vs Cleveland
First Drive
Q1 14:04 3&1 Deshaun Watson right end for 8 yards (tackle by Joe Schobert)
Q1 11:05 3&6 Deshaun Watson pass incomplete short left intended for Will Fuller (defended by Jamar Taylor)
2nd Drive
Q1 5:05 3&11 Deshaun Watson pass incomplete short middle intended for Ryan Griffin
3rd Drive
NO 3rd down throws. Watson did hit a wide open Will Fuller on a busted play for a 39yard TD
4th Drive
Q2 8:32 3&9 Deshaun Watson middle for 3 yards (tackle by Joe Schobert and Myles Garrett). Penalty on Chris Clark: Offensive Holding (Declined)
5th Drive
No 3rd down passes
6th Drive
Q2 1:54 3&10 Deshaun Watson sacked by Myles Garrett for -8 yards
7th Drive
Q3 10:17 3&1 Deshaun Watson pass complete short middle to Braxton Miller for -6 yards (tackle by Derrick Kindred)
8th Drive
Q3 3 and 5 Deshaun Watson pass incomplete deep right intended for Will Fuller.
9th Drive
No 3rd down passes - Watson intercepted pix 6 on a deep throw to Fuller on a 2nd down pass
10th drive
Q4 12:43 3&13 Deshaun Watson middle for 9 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey)
This was his last pass. Houston ran the ball the rest of the game to chew the clock.
Summary Watson went 1 for 9 on 3rd down passes only hitting the 3&1 pass on the very first set.
On 3rd & 6 or more the money down he was 0 for 5.
Watson looked good for the most part. playing with a lead throughout the entire game with little pressure, but he did not preform well on the obvious passing downs.
I will update this when Trubisky plays this same defense.
Myk
85in25
- Joined:
- Sep 27, 2010
- Posts:
- 11,142
- Liked Posts:
- 4,467
Highest upside is a prediction. A project is a long shot and cuts that upside drastically.
We had the pick of the litter at #2 and probably at #3. He was only forced into taking a QB because he had ignored the position years before. Nobody forced his choice of QBs. Fact is he took a QB he viewed as a project (long shot) with the #2 pick.
I think Trubisky or Watson would've been (will be) fine.
My only issue here is Pace. I think it will work out (to be better than the Bears have had, which isn't saying much) but that will be in spite of his QB strategy not because of it.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 37,895
- Liked Posts:
- 43,086
You really needn't bother on my account, because it doesn't matter. Watson was smashing rookie records and putting 30+ up in every start. You showing me what each QB did on 2nd and 8 from the 40 doesn't change that.
Nobody on this planet outside of Mitch Trubisky's family and a section of homer Bears fans doesn't recognize that Watson is a much better player at this point. Now we just have to hope that Trubisky develops into something great. Watson is irrelevant to that happening or not happening.
satchice
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,720
- Liked Posts:
- 1,463
- Location:
- Schaumburg
My favorite teams
Point is Watson is not as great as you think he is. This was about 3rd down passes not 2nd down. When the pressure was on Watson could not come though. Sure he can throw a screen pass and dump off that go for 30-80 yards but he cant hit the 3rd down passes. This is only in response to you saying Watson is a better QB then Mitch. I am auguring that. I think if Watson and Mitch flipped teams even you would call Watson a bust. Thankfully Watson has a great coahing staff and elite WR to make him look good. The Houston Texans are the same team that Brian Hoyer and Brock Osweiler took to the playoffs. Point is it doesn't take much to succeed in Houston as a QB with that game plan and those weapons.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 14,959
- Liked Posts:
- 16,593
Nice effort, honestly, I like posts like this- But the third down box score on cleveland is irrelevant.
When the texans are walking all over them 33-3... or even 27 minutes in when they were up 24-3, it completely changes the complexion of the third down mindset.
you are just eating clock and punting at that point.
I think rationally we can say the scoreboard had a lot to do with Watson playing ultra safe on 3rd down vs. cleveland... especially when you compare his 3rd down numbers vs. cleveland to his 3rd down numbers vs. the rest of the league-
You say 1 for 9 vs. cleveland.. which leaves 25 of 34 against the rest of the league with 18 first downs.
for now, I think I am looking at the cleveland game situation, the rest of his performance, and making the logical conclusion that he was just playing cautious while holding a laugher of a lead.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 37,895
- Liked Posts:
- 43,086
Stop. He is better. I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said only Trubisky's family and a section of homer Bears fans don't understand that Watson is better. He is. Everyone knows it. You arguing to the contrary means that you think if Trubisky was on the Texans then he would be smashing rookie records and would have been on his way to an MVP caliber season. Please, for the love of god, just stop.
SugarWalls
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Sep 17, 2013
- Posts:
- 6,077
- Liked Posts:
- 6,523
I agree with, but in the same breath this is why the threads comparing Watson or any other experienced QB to trubisky are a bit asinine.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 14,959
- Liked Posts:
- 16,593
I disagree on that- if someone is showing commendable skills with no glaring warts in their games then you have solid ground to judge them.
They are what their games say they are.
As far as Trubisky goes... dude is facing a shitload of challenges- has not shown any brilliance, but people for the most part are waiting to see if he can put it together. He is the one holding up comparisons.
You can point to watson and say "he is doing x y and z at a high level, a level of other players around the league". legit statement.
Pointing at Trubs, you can really only say "if the bears fix x y and z, he might just be a good player". that is just baseless prognostication.
Watson has the game and can be compared to others so far. Trubs cannot be fairly compared- he just doesnt have the help nor the record.
bearsfaninfl
Active member
- Joined:
- Nov 5, 2012
- Posts:
- 417
- Liked Posts:
- 136
I never questioned Watson's ability, but I was definitely worried about the likelihood for injuries, and a possible RG3 like outcome.
For Trubisky, he is on about the same trajectory as Mariota was in his rookie season. No need to be concerned yet.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 14,959
- Liked Posts:
- 16,593
legit points.... too many people wanna call Watson Brady and Trubs either leaf or manning... no wait and see.
SugarWalls
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Sep 17, 2013
- Posts:
- 6,077
- Liked Posts:
- 6,523
Sure you can do this if you want, and though many haven't directly come out and said it many have implied he is a bust or that the Bears should have drafted Watson or acquired garropolo... Winning was NEVER in the cards for this season from the very start.
Trubisky was drafted on the merit that he could potentially become the best QB of the crop in 2-3 years. Critiquing his flaws during his first 8 starts is of course fine, but it is downright stupid to then say he sucks or he is a bust because someone with much more experience is better than him.
- Joined:
- Aug 17, 2011
- Posts:
- 41,365
- Liked Posts:
- 23,651
- Location:
- Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
Watson was a lot more ready for NFL pressure and it showed in spades but it was expected. There was thread before the draft about who was most ready and even though I wanted Mitchell, that answer was easily Watson. I also said he lucked into a great situation on draft day and should be able to produce earlier if needed. He surpassed even that and deserves his accolades but we still don't know about his career though it looks quite promising.
So what? He plays for Houston and was not the top rated QB in this draft by the great majority of those that do this for a living. We got that guy and will need a bit more patience to understand exactly what we have. Frustration of a shit team and coaching has soured many to everything Bear.
So what? He plays for Houston and was not the top rated QB in this draft by the great majority of those that do this for a living. We got that guy and will need a bit more patience to understand exactly what we have. Frustration of a shit team and coaching has soured many to everything Bear.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 37,895
- Liked Posts:
- 43,086
This I can agree with. What I can't be doing with is those who dig their heels in and refuse to acknowledge the obvious fact that he is better now, and are adamant that if they were on each other's team, Watson would have been Trubisky and Trubisky would have been Watson.
No, they wouldn't.
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,572
- Liked Posts:
- 13,618
Most QBs show more even early on. Guys like Peyton, Ben, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Marcus Mariota, Dak prescott, Carson Wentz all showed plenty early on to show they'd be mainstays. The only one I can think of who just looked horrible and then came on the next season is Jared Goff and I think that's likely cause Fisher had no intention of starting him so they weren't really working with him.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 14,959
- Liked Posts:
- 16,593
I agree completely- He is a project and we gotta take a look and see how it works out.
But for the guys that hit the ground running and establish a pretty damn high floor and a potentially awesome ceiling... those kind of guys you can certainly compare to others right off the bat- especially if they are performing at or above vets around the league.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 14,959
- Liked Posts:
- 16,593
2 big guys who showed almost nothing early on were Drew Brees, and in all honesty, Brady was a game manager plain and simple for his first few year.
Smith looked hideous and is having a hell of a career.
Stafford was very sketchy and has turned in to a damn fine player.
It happens. Brees in particular showed zero to be excited about. Not saying trubs is Brees, but I am not going in to depression after this season.
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,572
- Liked Posts:
- 13,618
True but Brees didn't start right away like the others but, yeah, he took a few years to get going. Yeah, Stafford was bad early on and had injuries his first 2 years. Smith was horrible for many years. Surprised they stuck with him as long as they did. Think Harbaugh saved his career before, you know, stabbing him in the back, Haha
Still from a fan's perspective, you'd like to see more early on to give ya hope of a quick turnaround and not just concern that it isn't going to work out and the process of waiting for it to will only set the team back more.
- Joined:
- Aug 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 16,905
- Liked Posts:
- 11,721
- Location:
- Funk & Wagnalls' porch
My favorite teams
I don't think the Watson to RG3 comparison is valid. RG3 either never learned or wanted to protect himself, he intentionally took hits, lot's of hits, many very avoidable. He broke down over time because he failed to protect himself. The polar opposite of RG3 when it comes to avoiding hits is Russell Wilson he is a magician, stepping out or sliding (yes I know he takes hits, because it's football, no gif's showing exceptions please). Cam Newton is doing some RG3 shit, but he's bigger and will take longer to break down, but it will happen if he doesn't change.
Watson and Trubisky both fall much closer to the Russell Wilson style of not getting killed. Watson got hurt, but in a non contact practice, I'm not saying that's good, but it has nothing to do with what happened to RG3. Trubisky either already knew or has learned how to protect himself and so far seems to be durable, point Mitch.
Will Watson be Mr. Glass that can't stay on the field, we will find out. Because of his obvious talent he will be given every chance in the world.
Does Trubisky have the talent to succeed, we will find out. Because of the draft investment he will be given every chance in the world.
I wish them both well, the NFL needs all the great QB's it can get, also Trubisky because he's a Bear, and Watson because he's not in the NFCN.
satchice
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,720
- Liked Posts:
- 1,463
- Location:
- Schaumburg
My favorite teams
I will say if either of them would be on the Texans they would both of been successful. Yes I do believe that Trubisky on the Texans could throw short passes for the Texans that become long gains. I also think if Watson or any other QB would be in Trubisky's situation that their stats would take a major hit.
Members online NOW
- Member
- Admin
- Mod
- Donor
- HOF
- bamainatlanta
- BearDown88
- bearsfanAZ34
- Beast15
- cameronkrazie86
- Chicago Staleys
- Chicago4Life
- Chicoman
- clenbuterol_clint
- DB012031
- DC
- dennehy
- gallagher
- hojkin
- I Just Want To Read
- IBleedBearsBlood
- iueyedoc
- jmoesser_ez
- jsu34
- JUSTFINGWIN
- KittiesKorner
- Kurtosis
- Natedogg8023
- ndgt10
- Penny Traitor
- PhilEBuster
- PrideisBears
- RiDLer80
- SugabearMVP
- vabearsfan15
- ViggyStargdust
- ytsejam
Staff online NOW
-
bamainatlantaYou wake him up, you keep him up -
Penny Traitorバカでも才能は一つ -
PrideisBearsBully Mod
