Trubisky or Garoppolo Right Now.

Who do you like at this very early point?

  • Dear Sweet Mitchell

    Votes: 39 51.3%
  • Home Town Jimmy

    Votes: 23 30.3%
  • Me

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Kevin, he's my neighbor, good dude

    Votes: 6 7.9%
  • Rex

    Votes: 7 9.2%
  • Jay

    Votes: 5 6.6%

  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

SugarWalls

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This I can agree with. What I can't be doing with is those who dig their heels in and refuse to acknowledge the obvious fact that he is better now, and are adamant that if they were on each other's team, Watson would have been Trubisky and Trubisky would have been Watson.

No, they wouldn't.

Watson would surely look better than Trubisky has for the Bears... That being said Watson was competing with Wentz and Brady for MVP, and that would not have happened on this shitty Bears team with their shit weapons and coaching.
 

satchice

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Most QBs show more even early on. Guys like Peyton, Ben, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Marcus Mariota, Dak prescott, Carson Wentz all showed plenty early on to show they'd be mainstays. The only one I can think of who just looked horrible and then came on the next season is Jared Goff and I think that's likely cause Fisher had no intention of starting him so they weren't really working with him.

Are you saying Trubisky looks horrible?
 

SugarWalls

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I don't think the Watson to RG3 comparison is valid. RG3 either never learned or wanted to protect himself, he intentionally took hits, lot's of hits, many very avoidable.

Really. You truly believe that he was intentionally taking hits? This is Trump level speak right here in bold.
 

Spartan

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I never questioned Watson's ability, but I was definitely worried about the likelihood for injuries, and a possible RG3 like outcome.

For Trubisky, he is on about the same trajectory as Mariota was in his rookie season. No need to be concerned yet.
I didn't see the recklessness of RG3 in Watson nor was he the head case RG# was.

Mariota had over a 90 rating and about a 2:1 ratio with Tds to ints so have no idea how you came up with that comparison.
 
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number51

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Really. You truly believe that he was intentionally taking hits? This is Trump level speak right here in bold.

Yeah he would lower his shoulder for an extra yard on 2dn down, unnecessary hits when he could have and should have stepped out of bounds or taken a slide. The coaches worked with him, tried to teach him how to slide, that didn't work out.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/09/rg3-fumble-slide

I'm surprised an NFL fan is unaware of this prominent story from a few years ago. It was such a big deal because his style of play destroyed his career, the career of the second overall pick. Not sure how an NFL fan could have missed that.

Anyway, my point was that neither Watson or Trubisky play like that, they protect themselves more like Russell Wilson, I'm guessing you missed that part as well.
 
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satchice

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Nice effort, honestly, I like posts like this- But the third down box score on cleveland is irrelevant.
When the texans are walking all over them 33-3... or even 27 minutes in when they were up 24-3, it completely changes the complexion of the third down mindset.
you are just eating clock and punting at that point.

I'm just trying to say it is not that easy to compare players in different situations.. Mitch has a lot less to work with and because of his play calling he is often put in the worst possible situation the 3rd and long pass attempts. If we look at the entire 3rd downs and not just the Cleveland game.

On 3rd down Watson is 25/45 58.1% for 227 yards 5.28 YPA 3 TD and 1 INTs taking 8 sacks
On 3rd down Trubisky is 40/65 61.5% for 502 yards 7.72 YPA 2 TDs and0 INTs taking 8 sacks

This doesn't tell you Mitch is better, but it does suggest they are a lot closer then to simply dismiss Mitch from the conversation. Obviously nobody can say if Mitch was on the Texans he would be MVP or if Watson was on the Bears he would of been benched of Mark.
 

satchice

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I'm just trying to say it is not that easy to compare players in different situations.. Mitch has a lot less to work with and because of his play calling he is often put in the worst possible situation the 3rd and long pass attempts. If we look at the entire 3rd downs and not just the Cleveland game.

On 3rd down Watson is 25/45 58.1% for 227 yards 5.28 YPA 3 TD and 1 INTs taking 8 sacks
On 3rd down Trubisky is 40/65 61.5% for 502 yards 7.72 YPA 2 TDs and0 INTs taking 8 sacks

This doesn't tell you Mitch is better, but it does suggest they are a lot closer then to simply dismiss Mitch from the conversation. Obviously nobody can say if Mitch was on the Texans he would be MVP or if Watson was on the Bears he would of been benched of Mark.

For reference here are some other NFL QBs 3rd down passes
Wentz
110 73 66.4 1043 9.48 12 2
Brady
110 69 62.7 901 8.19 7 2
Goff
118 76 64.4 858 7.27 7 2
Marcus Mariota
103 58 56.3 638 6.19 2 3
Jameis Winston
72 39 54.2 490 6.81 3 2
 

satchice

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More like a lost puppy. Has had some ups and downs but his ups aren't that up and his downs are way down.

I'm not sure why that is.. Trubisky has a lower sack percentage and high completion %, RAT, and YPA then Watson on 3rd down but to you Trubisky looks lost and Watson looks like the best rookie QB ever. Cool story I think maybe you let the outcome of games (total score) influence how you judge individual performances.
 

bearsfaninfl

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I don't think the Watson to RG3 comparison is valid. RG3 either never learned or wanted to protect himself, he intentionally took hits, lot's of hits, many very avoidable. He broke down over time because he failed to protect himself. The polar opposite of RG3 when it comes to avoiding hits is Russell Wilson he is a magician, stepping out or sliding (yes I know he takes hits, because it's football, no gif's showing exceptions please). Cam Newton is doing some RG3 shit, but he's bigger and will take longer to break down, but it will happen if he doesn't change.

Watson and Trubisky both fall much closer to the Russell Wilson style of not getting killed. Watson got hurt, but in a non contact practice, I'm not saying that's good, but it has nothing to do with what happened to RG3. Trubisky either already knew or has learned how to protect himself and so far seems to be durable, point Mitch.

Will Watson be Mr. Glass that can't stay on the field, we will find out. Because of his obvious talent he will be given every chance in the world.
Does Trubisky have the talent to succeed, we will find out. Because of the draft investment he will be given every chance in the world.

I wish them both well, the NFL needs all the great QB's it can get, also Trubisky because he's a Bear, and Watson because he's not in the NFCN.

It's a pretty valid comparison. It has nothing to do with how they run, and more to do with the fact that once you have an ACL injury, you are at much greater risk for another. I wasn't trying to compare based on style, more on injury.

That's not to say that he can't get passed it and be a superstar, just that there's a greater risk that teams take when signing guys that have had these kinds of issues, and there's a greater risk of decline.

"Among players who were Pro Bowlers before their injuries, 85 percent returned to play football. Only 30 percent made it back to the Pro Bowl."

It's more of a worry of reinjury or decline. I hope he comes back in top form, because he's fun to watch and good for the game.
 

bearsfaninfl

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I didn't see the recklessness of RG3 in Watson nor was he the head case RG# was.

Mariota had over a 90 rating and about a 2:1 ratio with Tds to ints so have no idea how you came up with that comparison.

You're right, I just remembered the specific stats in another thread, but go ahead and use Peyton's numbers as a comparison then. They were in line with Trubisky.
 

bearmick

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Watson would surely look better than Trubisky has for the Bears... That being said Watson was competing with Wentz and Brady for MVP, and that would not have happened on this shitty Bears team with their shit weapons and coaching.

Oh I agree. I think he would better but no way would he be putting the same amount of points on the board as he was in HOU.
 

Spartan

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I'm not sure why that is.. Trubisky has a lower sack percentage and high completion %, RAT, and YPA then Watson on 3rd down but to you Trubisky looks lost and Watson looks like the best rookie QB ever. Cool story I think maybe you let the outcome of games (total score) influence how you judge individual performances.
When did I say Watson was the best rookie ever? I merely acknowledged how good he looked and how he instantly made Texans a better team. Don't need to look to outcome of games to judge QB performance so much as how he moves the offense and that #32 ranked offense has not been moving at all.

You seem to have latched on to this 3rd down stat. If any of it was relevant to anything, I'd imagine it would lead to more than the Bears being #30 in scoring and dead last in yards per game.
 

Spartan

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You're right, I just remembered the specific stats in another thread, but go ahead and use Peyton's numbers as a comparison then. They were in line with Trubisky.
Haha, no they were not.
 

bearsfaninfl

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Haha, no they were not.

Care to explain?

Completion percentage: Peyton: 56.7, Trubisky: 54.9
TD to Int: Peyton 1:1, Trubisky 1:1
Yards Per attempt: Peyton 6.5, Trubisky 6.4
Yards per completion: Peyton 11.5, Trubisky 11.7
Rookie Season wins: Peyton 3, Trubisky 2 (with games to play)

The main differences are that Peyton got a ton of attempts. Trubisky takes more sacks. And the td and int percentages were both increased for Peyton, which I would expect if this team would open up the playbook some.

Statistically, they are pretty damn close.
 

Spartan

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Care to explain?

Completion percentage: Peyton: 56.7, Trubisky: 54.9
TD to Int: Peyton 1:1, Trubisky 1:1
Yards Per attempt: Peyton 6.5, Trubisky 6.4
Yards per completion: Peyton 11.5, Trubisky 11.7
Rookie Season wins: Peyton 3, Trubisky 2 (with games to play)

The main differences are that Peyton got a ton of attempts. Trubisky takes more sacks. And the td and int percentages were both increased for Peyton, which I would expect if this team would open up the playbook some.

Statistically, they are pretty damn close.
Look at actual production ffs. The only bad thing about Manning's rookie season was he threw a lot of INTs. He did throw for more yardage and TDs than any rookie ever did. Trubisky's story is the exact opposite, total lack of production with only 5 TDs in 8 games and averaging only about 150 yards per game making the Bears the worst offense in football.
 

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Most QBs show more even early on. Guys like Peyton, Ben, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Marcus Mariota, Dak prescott, Carson Wentz all showed plenty early on to show they'd be mainstays. The only one I can think of who just looked horrible and then came on the next season is Jared Goff and I think that's likely cause Fisher had no intention of starting him so they weren't really working with him.

Yes to your point about qbs showing something early on. Every player, any position has a different level of catching on to the pro game. Different intangibles are there for each player. O. Kreutz sucked his rookie season, so did Peanut.

So each of those qbs you mentioned showed something in their rookie season. MT has shown some great passes for completions, not enough proof for some people, ok ...but he has not done anything to be written off yet either.

He's shown some terrible passes along with terrible footwork as well as some great footwork. Holds on to the ball to long, isn't reading defenses supposedly one of the toughest things for a rook qb to learn? So he has to read the coverage and decide whether or not the crappy wr can make a play. He hasn't thrown a lot of picks.

I havn't seen enough to think he will bust, contrary to some who are already judging him this early that he will. If he comes out of the gate poorly next year then it may be time to go to the ledge. This is just a learning year.
 

bearsfaninfl

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Look at actual production ffs. The only bad thing about Manning's rookie season was he threw a lot of INTs. He did throw for more yardage and TDs than any rookie ever did. Trubisky's story is the exact opposite, total lack of production with only 5 TDs in 8 games and averaging only about 150 yards per game making the Bears the worst offense in football.

So you're saying it's Trubisky's fault he isn't throwing more?

At 8 games in, Manning completed 161/292 for 1873, 11 TD and 16 Ints, with 33 yds rushing.

At 8 games in, Trubisky is 106/193 for 1237, 5 TD and 4 Ints with 194 yds rushing.

If we even it out by pass attempts based on the current numbers (you :

160/292 for 1868, 7.5 TD and 6 Ints for Trubisky.

The only statistical difference would be TD and Ints. Yardage would be almost the same. Note that at this point, Manning was also at 1 TD to 1.5 Int ratio.

Manning also had Marving Harrison and Marshall Faulk to start his career. They accounted for 7 of those 11 TD's Peyton had in his first 8 games.

I'm not, in any way, trying to say Trubisky is as good as Peyton. I'm just pointing out that after 8 games, it's not like Peyton was leaps and bounds ahead. It took him time. Year 2 was a big jump for him. Heck, even over his last 8 games of his rookie season, things started looking a lot better.
 
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