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  1. #45
    Senior Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xer0h0ur View Post
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    The roster was already blown up by Pace and is slowly being rebuilt. You want to start that all over again? Because that is literally how you remain the Chicago Browns. Wake. The. Fuck. Up. GM continuity is beyond necessary to stop this shit.
    Not firing an incompetent GM is how you become the Detroit Lions. Matt Millen had a winning percentage of .270 and control for 7 years. Currently Pace is on track to match or even do worse than that. Your logic is severely flawed.
    "But I also understand this is just talk and we've got to show actions. We've got to show results. I fully get that." - Ryan Pace

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  3. #46
    ^ My name. What I say--> Starion's Avatar
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    When the injury bug bites early and hard and there's nothing left to play for...what do you do?

    Reset button and see who among the lower ranks of 1-year prove-it deals is worth keeping.

    Full on (but hush hush)...


  4. #47
    what the whaaaaat? xer0h0ur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
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    Not firing an incompetent GM is how you become the Detroit Lions. Matt Millen had a winning percentage of .270 and control for 7 years. Currently Pace is on track to match or even do worse than that. Your logic is severely flawed.
    You're drawing a parallel where there is none chief. Show me a single GM in the NFL that turned over 49 of 53 players on an NFL roster in 3 years and had that team competing for the division or playoffs in that short of a span? Because in case you haven't noticed bub, that is exactly the position the Bears are in. I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH. IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REPLACE FORTY-FUCKING-NINE PLAYERS WITH NFL STARTER TIER TALENT IN THREE GOD DAMNED YEARS.

  5. #48
    Senior Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xer0h0ur View Post
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    You're drawing a parallel where there is none chief. Show me a single GM in the NFL that turned over 49 of 53 players on an NFL roster in 3 years and had that team competing for the division or playoffs in that short of a span? Because in case you haven't noticed bub, that is exactly the position the Bears are in. I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH. IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REPLACE FORTY-FUCKING-NINE PLAYERS WITH NFL STARTER TIER TALENT IN THREE GOD DAMNED YEARS.
    19. Bears
    Snaps Lost Quality Snaps Lost Quality ST Lost Avg. APY Lost Avg. Rank
    22.3% 14.3% 9.8% $2,622,083 17.5

    This has to qualify as one of the oddest offseasons of all time. The Bears were relatively average in their turnover despite having a terrible team last season and went out and signed an expensive free agent quarterback and drafted a top QB but sold off their best receiver. This has all the makings of a front office giving a head coach enough rope to hang himself so that their hands are clean when they fire him next season. When final rosters are set and we revisit the snaps gained and lost I expect everything to cancel out except for Glennon. If Glennon fails expect wholesale changes in 2018 with Fox being the fall guy for 2017. I don’t know if that’s the way to run the team or not.


    They were 19th for 2017, not sure where you get your facts from other years, but I would suspect 3 year turnover rates for almost any team are pretty high.

    https://overthecap.com/roster-turnov...-number-20-11/
    "But I also understand this is just talk and we've got to show actions. We've got to show results. I fully get that." - Ryan Pace

  6. #49
    Senior Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    "But I also understand this is just talk and we've got to show actions. We've got to show results. I fully get that." - Ryan Pace

  7. #50
    ^ My name. What I say--> Starion's Avatar
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    ^ I appreciate the links. Cool site, and I love me some data. It helps but certainly doesn't say it all, especially with a coaching staff so unbelievably reluctant to let rookies get in the game until forced to by injuries or terrible play by the senior starters...Langford>Howard, Simms>Sheehan, etc.

    As to why there is so little starting talent lost.... The last two seasons have been in such flux due to starters going down so early...backups everywhere & gum up the stats when they don't stick in the off-season. 1 year prove-it deals are also FAR more common with Bears in rebuild mode than most other teams.


    Fully agree with xer0h0ur both in content and huge font stressing it.

  8. #51
    Senior Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starion View Post
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    ^ I appreciate the links. Cool site, and I love me some data. It helps but certainly doesn't say it all, especially with a coaching staff so unbelievably reluctant to let rookies get in the game until forced to by injuries or terrible play by the senior starters...Langford>Howard, Simms>Sheehan, etc.

    As to why there is so little starting talent lost.... The last two seasons have been in such flux due to starters going down so early...backups everywhere & gum up the stats when they don't stick in the off-season. 1 year prove-it deals are also FAR more common with Bears in rebuild mode than most other teams.


    Fully agree with xer0h0ur both in content and huge font stressing it.
    The fact of the matter is, xer0hours claims are ambiguous at best. The Bears aren't "turning over" their roster at such a higher rate than normal, as he suggests.

    Then there is the point that roster turnover is generally done to improve the roster, not just for roster turnovers sake. So, with such a high turnover rate (in his words, not mine) the Bears should be a significantly better team then they were 3 years ago. If not, that is not an argument that can be made in defense of Pace, just the opposite is true.

    The record just doesn't support this excuse.
    "But I also understand this is just talk and we've got to show actions. We've got to show results. I fully get that." - Ryan Pace

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  10. #52
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    When Pace formulates a plan he usually succeeds. Even when his plan misses he still comes out on the good side, see Trubisky being better now than Pace planned.

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  12. #53
    Senior Member Chicago Staleys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearsFan51 View Post
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    When Pace formulates a plan he usually succeeds. Even when his plan misses he still comes out on the good side, see Trubisky being better now than Pace planned.
    Please explain further...

  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago Staleys View Post
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    Please explain further...
    He's succeeded when everyone has said he would fail or had failed. He's always had a plan and executed it. Draft day, free agency. People are losing their minds because the Bears are 3-9. But the Bears aren't 3-9 because of personnel, they're 3-9 because of a run run pass offense that runs 80-percent of the time on first down.

    Yeah it sucks having to wait for John Fox to be fired. But getting antsy and then trying to add to the blame is stupid. Everyone knows why the Bears are where they are, they've just lost clarity on why.

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  15. #55
    Senior Member WindyCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iueyedoc View Post
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    Yet none of these coaches could be or were interviewed until season's completion, so it matters not.

    What is the point of firing Fox other than making you feel better?
    Do you think Loggains or Fangio are potential HC's?
    Do you think they are even capable of conducting themselves as a HC for 4 weeks?
    What advantage do they present? Loggains can't even throw together a game plan beyond his scripted 15.
    Fangio has his hands full just trying to make his defense not turn to shit.

    As bad as Fox is those two could somehow even be worse in the last 4 weeks.
    You can play and develop the young players that Fox refuses to play, or to allow to play as much as they should.

    4 weeks of wasted development for guys like Trubisky, Shaheen and Cohen.


    It also allows you to do a more thorough self assessment. Albert Breer wrote a good article about what the Rams used those weeks for and how it made them able to pull the trigger on McVay quickly.

  16. #56
    Senior Member WindyCity's Avatar
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    I would prefer Fox to coach out the season and continue to shit on his legacy.

    Firing him at this point would be merciful and I don't want to give him mercy.

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  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearsFan51 View Post
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    When Pace formulates a plan he usually succeeds. Even when his plan misses he still comes out on the good side, see Trubisky being better now than Pace planned.
    Huh? . . .
    . . . there are things about the Bears known and unknown and in between are the doors the shoopster walks through . . .

  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy KGB View Post
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    You and I completely agree. I think Ryan Pace will get a contract that matches up with whatever coach he hires.

    And the media who wants Pace out as well as idiot fans who want to fire everyone every year so we can be like the Browns will be up in arms melting down and it will be glorious.

    The truth of it though is that you are right. Everything will be on the line now as Pace will have his quarterback and his head coach. His future will absolutely be tied to those two and if they can't turn it around in the time frame of the head coach's contract, they will have everything all lined up for a clean sweep, which frankly is how a well-run organization is supposed to do it.

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
    I wouldnt be up in arms if this happens but i do think it would be a hard move to justify when the NFL landscape views the Bears as just as much of an irrelevance as it was three years ago and Pace has 12 wins in 3 years. You can only say rebuild, and the results will come so many times.

  20. #59
    what the whaaaaat? xer0h0ur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
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    The fact of the matter is, xer0hours claims are ambiguous at best. The Bears aren't "turning over" their roster at such a higher rate than normal, as he suggests.

    Then there is the point that roster turnover is generally done to improve the roster, not just for roster turnovers sake. So, with such a high turnover rate (in his words, not mine) the Bears should be a significantly better team then they were 3 years ago. If not, that is not an argument that can be made in defense of Pace, just the opposite is true.

    The record just doesn't support this excuse.
    There is zero ambiguity to the fact only 4 players remain on the team Ryan Pace inherited. That is exactly what is meant by blowing up a team's roster. This is why people expecting this team to be far along already is beyond unrealistic. It was a complete team rebuild from the ground up. Its going to take time.

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  22. #60
    ^ My name. What I say--> Starion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xer0h0ur View Post
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    There is zero ambiguity to the fact only 4 players remain on the team Ryan Pace inherited. That is exactly what is meant by blowing up a team's roster. This is why people expecting this team to be far along already is beyond unrealistic. It was a complete team rebuild from the ground up. Its going to take time.
    EXACTLY

    Problem is, people expect every new name to be not only a starter but "impact player", "difference maker", or whatever subjective term fans like to argue about. Simply getting solid starters is what's needed plus a few all-stars on each side of the ball.

    1. Some bitch at any acquisition that doesn't pan out, even if it's due to uncontrollable injury.
    2. Others bitch that a guy was overpaid. Misses happen on every team.
    3. Still further (the worst) are those who bitch when a FA leaves or isn't brought in when the cost was far too high AND they simply didn't want to join/stay on a team in a rebuild.



    Even the above won't matter if 1/3 the starting roster is on IR and the coaching sucks. Both of those will change this off-season. Like you said, time.

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  24. #61
    Senior Member Monsieur Tirets's Avatar
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    pace isnt going anywhere.

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  26. #62
    Senior Member WindyCity's Avatar
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    You can criticize Pace without wanting him fired.

    He deserves critiscm. He deserves to have his flaws pointed out. You can bitch about shitty moves.

    I think Pace deserves to take some heat, but I also think he deseves 2 ore years to see this Trubisky thing through.

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  28. #63
    Senior Member WindyCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monsieur Tirets View Post
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    pace isnt going anywhere.
    No he isn't. But he does deserve some serious shit.

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  30. #64
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    Pace is unlikely to see this through, but he will be credited with building the necessary foundation for the Bears going forward. Just like most teams that go on runs, it starts with the GM that was just recently fired. Just like with the Blackhawks, Stan Bowman gets all the credit, but it really was Dale Tallon that put the pieces in place.

  31. #65
    Senior Member WindyCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probie2429 View Post
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    Pace is unlikely to see this through, but he will be credited with building the necessary foundation for the Bears going forward. Just like most teams that go on runs, it starts with the GM that was just recently fired. Just like with the Blackhawks, Stan Bowman gets all the credit, but it really was Dale Tallon that put the pieces in place.
    Part of me wonders if he has already buried himself in loses that even if he makes it 2-3 more years if those not loses will always follow him.

    It will take 5 more years for his record to be defensible/reasonable.

    I think he needs to crush this coaching hire. I think that is the easiest way to have people forget the John Fox disaster.

  32. #66
    what the whaaaaat? xer0h0ur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCity View Post
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    You can criticize Pace without wanting him fired.

    He deserves critiscm. He deserves to have his flaws pointed out. You can bitch about shitty moves.

    I think Pace deserves to take some heat, but I also think he deseves 2 ore years to see this Trubisky thing through.
    No one is invulnerable to criticism in the NFL no matter how secure their job may be. Lets be real here.

    The only thing being said here is that Pace's vision of the rebuild isn't complete and I would for the love of god like to see it to completion. This isn't baseball or basketball where you can rebuild in a few years. Simply by virtue of the fact there are far less players to have to replace in a rebuild in those sports. Football is an unforgiving sport where if you blow a team up you're in for a cruel realization that there is going to be some real shit football ahead of you. Compound that with the retarded amounts of injuries to this team and well you see what is before you at this moment.

    For better or worse it seems ownership and upper management are going to see it through. For once in my lifetime I actually think the Bears might be doing what is necessary. Even when its hurting their bottom line and pissing off fans. Where I truly believe they went wrong though was in not being transparent about it. They could have just as easily announced the Ryan Pace signing and let him tell the media that this team was about to undergo a complete overhaul and that the product on the field was going to become worse before it could ever get better. That would have still pissed off fans and some season ticket holders but at least it would have put everyone in the right frame of mind with regard to the direction the team was headed and that this thing was for the long haul.

    As I have said before multiple times though, check my pulse on Pace after this coming free agency and draft. Its going to be a hyper critical off-season for him with regard to just how much this team is going to progress.

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