Bears 'brainstorming' cutting-edge offense for Trubisky

HeHateMe

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I don't have a prescription to pro football focus for the statistics but I thought I had read somewhere probably on this forum that was referring to PFF stats that Trubisky was significantly worst in the pocket for accuracy versus throwing while running even if it was not by play design especially in deep balls thrown to the point that if he wasn't setting his feet it was better rolling out than in the pocket or stepping up, and when you combine that with the eye-test where most of his sacks came from holding onto the balls when he was in a pocket too long, it is pretty indisputable that he is much stronger in his passing-game when he is running with the ball or running into a throw.

One thing that really stood out to me personally when i was analyzing him is how good he is as a rookie at the pump/fake and if they can build on that we might be seeing a younger, more athletic, smaller version of Big Ben Rothlessburger.
 

xer0h0ur

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The thing about statistics is they have to be put into context otherwise they're misleading. So for instance if Trubisky is 9 for 10 on rollouts putting him at 90% completion and 300 for 500 under center and in the shotgun putting him at 60% completion then does it really mean much to say he is a more accurate passer on the run? Nope. Its a sample size of 10 passes versus 500. Hence why its skewed in that instance to say he's 90% accurate on the run versus 60% in the pocket.
 

HeHateMe

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The thing about statistics is they have to be put into context otherwise they're misleading. So for instance if Trubisky is 9 for 10 on rollouts putting him at 90% completion and 300 for 500 under center and in the shotgun putting him at 60% completion then does it really mean much to say he is a more accurate passer on the run? Nope. Its a sample size of 10 passes versus 500. Hence why its skewed in that instance to say he's 90% accurate on the run versus 60% in the pocket.

True I guess I can see the validity in that when you really think about how statistics can be used to support one thing over a nother thing when they only apply to the thing you are siding with over the other, but what about the sacks though, the fact that likely most if not literally all of his sacks give or take a few, happened in the pocket? If we are talking about pocket passing aptitude I think sacks and awareness and holding on to the ball for the right amount of time should be taken into consideration for the overall understanding of being an efficient and effective pocket passer with pocket passing competencies, no? Or are we purely just only talking about passing, like just throwing the ball from the pocket? I'd include awareness and also mechanics as well, additionally to passing even.
 

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All of which are valid concerns. A bunch of his sacks were coverage sacks where he had no choice but to eat the sack from having no throwing lane or open receiver and the defense held contain well so running was not an option. Some of those sacks were entirely his fault. Some of those sacks were because Massie is pretty bad. Some of those sacks were because we were running with a rag tag offensive line being shuffled around from offensive line injuries. Massie gave up too much pressure for my liking and Long had some egregious fuck ups of his own despite playing injured.

https://xer0hour.com/lenomassiepbe.png

lenomassiepbe.png


I want to see him improve his footwork, pocket presence, take less sacks and get the ball out quicker. I'm going to wait and see how things look with hopefully a healthier offensive line that may or may not be upgraded. We all presume the receiver situation will be addressed in some form so hopefully we get guys that get separation whether by being good route runners or schematically. I am sure Trubisky will get roasted, and deservedly, if guys are open and he's still taking sacks or getting happy feet.
 

r1terrell23

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I don't think he has top 10 talent anyway, so I would much rather get the best they can out of him by playing to his strengths. You can win with him with the right kind of offense and the right people around him. He's good at what he does, just isn't a natural pocket QB. I would rather get the best out of him than try to force him into a role he isn't comfortable in.

I agree he needs to get better in the pocket, but I'd rather run an offense like this right now, than a straight up pro-style pocket based one, because it gives the Bears the best chance to succeed in the short term.

I'm going to wait until we get legit weapons in the passing game before I determine his ceiling and floor. I'll also wait until after his second season, as should most of us.
 

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In a story related to this recent brainstorming, the Bears have also brainwashed a desperate fanbase into believing a 14-and-34 "rebuild" has them poised for the playoffs in 2019 . . .
 

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I'm going to wait until we get legit weapons in the passing game before I determine his ceiling and floor. I'll also wait until after his second season, as should most of us.

Most people with average football knowledge would agree with you but this is an internet board so reason is never guaranteed. Most would give a guy 2 years before making grandious or ignorant evaluations but some can’t resist the hate & negativity even when it makes them look silly-or worse.
 

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Most people with average football knowledge would agree with you but this is an internet board so reason is never guaranteed. Most would give a guy 2 years before making grandious or ignorant evaluations but some can’t resist the hate & negativity even when it makes them look silly-or worse.

A rush to judgement to wanna come across as being smarter than those with realistic expectations and try to shit on peeps that believe the potential for development is there and not decided in the first season of a crappy offensive scenario.
 

Xuder O'Clam

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Why get so bothered by Mick's opinions? They are just opinions, and aside from noonthirtyjoe, and shoop, Mick is one of the worst early evaluators of QBs on this board.
 

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https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-b...Ls-best-from-a-clean-pocket-in-2017-111895046



[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular][FONT=proxima_nova_ltsemibold]Mitch Trubisky[/FONT] has already had his share of ups and downs as an NFL quarterback in his rookie season.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]He's made some dazzling throws and plays with his feet, but he's also tossed a pair of costly interceptions late in games which ultimately sealed the team's fate. In eight starts this season he has completed 106 of his 193 passing attempts for 1,237 yards with five touchdowns and four interceptions. During that time he has been sacked a whopping 21 times and holds a 74.6 quarterback rating.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]According to Pro Football Focus, on Trubisky has been pressured on 39.2 percent of his dropbacks this season and sacked on 23.1 percent of his dropbacks. The result of all of his pressures is a combination of inconsistent line play and Trubisky's reluctance at times to get rid of the football quickly. While that is clearly an area he needs to work on, PFF also pointed out just how impressive he is when given a clean pocket.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]Analyst John Kosko pointed out on Twitter earlier in the week that Trubisky is among the NFL's best from a clean pocket. Only he and Minnesota Vikings quarterback [FONT=proxima_nova_ltsemibold]Case Keenum[/FONT] have registered a 100 percent in terms of aimed passes deemed catchable. That does not mean Trubisky has complete all of his passes from a clean pocket, rather all of his throws have been deemed catchable in those situations.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]Four of his five touchdowns have come with a clean pocket, but so have three of his interceptions. PFF also points out that when throwing from a clean pocket Trubisky's targets have dropped 11 of his 131 passing attempts. In total his targets have dropped 14 of his 193 passing attempts. His 7.3 drop percentage would be the fourth highest in the NFL by PFF's metrics if he qualified under their criteria of at least 50 percent of his team's dropbacks.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]Trubisky's accuracy has been questioned in recent weeks and a lot of that has to do with the pressure he has been facing. Offensive coordinator [FONT=proxima_nova_ltsemibold]Dowell Loggains[/FONT] noted last month.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]“I don’t think it’s accuracy at all because I think he’s extremely accurate,” Loggains said in early November. “We need to do a better job in pass [protection]. We need to do a better job of creating separation out wide. When he’s had time and had clean pockets, he’s thrown some really good balls. We’ve played good defenses with good secondaries, and we have to help him a little more.”
[/FONT]

[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]Want to keep up with the Bears during the regular season? Take a second to sign up for our FREE Bears newsletter! Take a second to sign up for our FREE Bears newsletter![/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]It is clear Trubisky's accuracy is great when not pressured and he will have to put in the work this offseason to perfect his throws when under pressure.[/FONT]
 

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https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/matt_nagy_mark_helfrich_mitch_trubisky/amp/


A new world order: Bears ‘brainstorming’ cutting-edge offense for Mitch Trubisky

On Oct. 2, 2010, Vic Fangio learned something about Mark Helfrich’s offensive philosophy. It was a lesson learned through a drubbing.

As Stanford’s defensive coordinator that season, it was Fangio’s job to slow down Oregon’s fast-paced spread offense, which was coordinated by Helfrich and called by then-coach Chip Kelly.

‘‘They were ahead of their time at that point,’’ said Fangio, the Bears’ defensive coordinator.

And the Ducks were ahead on the scoreboard, outscoring the Cardinal by 28 points in the second half en route to a 52-31 victory. It was Stanford’s only loss during a 12-1 season. Fangio’s defense pitched three shutouts that season in Pac-12 play.



Oregon’s impressive run eventually ended in a 22-19 loss to Auburn and quarterback Cam Newton in the BCS Championship Game.

‘‘They were at the no-huddle at a high-speed pace,’’ Fangio said. ‘‘The game was spread out more. They had — I don’t want to say an X and O advantage, but a method advantage that people hadn’t caught up to yet at that point. And they had good players doing it.

‘‘Now more and more people are doing it. It’s still a good scheme; it still has its good and bad points. But at that point, the newness was still in their favor.’’

But it will be new to the Bears. In fact, everything on offense will be under coach Matt Nagy and coordinator Helfrich. They don’t quite know what they’re building for quarterback Mitch Trubisky and Co., but they want to attack. They want to be innovative. They want to be cutting-edge.
It’s a playbook that will evolve through Trubisky’s successes and failures. But it’s safe to say it will be a more diverse approach because of all the influences Nagy and Helfrich bring with them.

Nagy learned the West Coast offense under Chiefs coach Andy Reid, but he said the Chiefs also implemented ‘‘some of the college stuff,’’ which included run-pass options. They wanted to be ‘‘new wave.’’

‘‘We were trying to be a little bit out of the box,’’ Nagy said.

Helfrich stood out to Nagy because of his experience with run-pass options at Oregon, where he was the offensive coordinator in 2009-12 and coach in 2013-16.

But Helfrich also spent eight years with Buccaneers coach Dirk Koetter as his quarterbacks coach at Boise State and Arizona State. Koetter is a disciple of the ‘‘Air Coryell’’ system, a vertical passing attack.

Helfrich certainly faces an adjustment coming from college. But the NFL now is full of versions of spread offenses that have proliferated throughout college. That’s why Helfrich’s pairing with Nagy is an intriguing one.

‘‘You’ve seen what someone called ‘the trickle-up effect’ of college football to the NFL,’’ Helfrich said.

In a way, the Bears have been here before. Marc Trestman was hired after Lovie Smith to modernize the offense for Jay Cutler, but everything failed miserably.

There are important differences to consider, though, whether it’s the hiring process that landed Nagy and his staff, Nagy’s temperament compared to Trestman’s, the Bears’ ability to retain Fangio for the defense or the relatively blank slate that is Trubisky.

Helfrich also is a former quarterback who played a role in Marcus Mariota’s emergence and who has a reputation as an innovator. Aaron Kromer, who was Trestman’s offensive coordinator, previously had worked with the offensive line.

It’s early, but Nagy sounds open-minded to everything. He wants to learn from Helfrich, and Helfrich wants to learn from him. They have lots of ideas, and building an offense for Trubisky will be a collaborative effort.

Helfrich described the Bears’ offense as in an ‘‘infantile stage’’; Nagy said they’re still ‘‘brainstorming.’’

‘‘For us, that’s the fun part,’’ Nagy said.


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Does this mean we are going to stupid cartoon cards on the sidelines?
 

shoopster

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Indeed, rump wrecked, indeed ...

These posts sound like sour grapes from a coupla "ole" friends pi55ed that the shoopster is still doing it as only he possibly can after all these years while they slink around CCS in shame hangin' onto past glories behind alts . . .

. . . As such, you guys know better than anyone - shoopster-on the brain won't make you famo - ah, you punks know the rest . . .
 

ruprecht

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These posts sound like sour grapes from a coupla "ole" friends pi55ed that the shoopster is still doing it as only he possibly can after all these years while they slink around CCS in shame hangin' onto past glories behind alts . . .

. . . As such, you guys know better than anyone - shoopster-on the brain won't make you famo - ah, you punks know the rest . . .

Horse walks in to a bar, bartender says "why the long face" :rimshot:
 

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