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There's a reason top prospect LTs get drafted where they do while top prospect guards get drafted where they do. LT vs pass rusher is a different argument than guard vs pass rusher.
There's a reason top prospect LTs get drafted where they do while top prospect guards get drafted where they do. LT vs pass rusher is a different argument than guard vs pass rusher.
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Thankfully, NFL GM’s feel the same way. Actually, it’s far more likely a GM will overdraft a player based on need than draft strictly BPA. BPA is a myth.
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Yep, especially in the modern salary cap/FA era where teams' windows tend to be smaller. Teams want players that can get them closer to a championship asap.
You're trying to win the Daytona 500, not stockpile Ferraris in the garage.
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There is a reason that guards are becoming a hotter commodity in the NFL than they ever were before. Offense is at a premium with the current NFL rule set and its no coincidence that the teams that regularly find themselves in playoff contention have a solid offensive line in front of their quarterback. Also there is an argument to be made that inside pressure is more of a detriment to the quarterback than outside pressure. Outside pressure can be rode out by a tackle and the quarterback can step up into the pocket if the interior of the line is holding up. Inside pressure flushes the quarterback into the teeth of the defense's defensive ends and outside linebackers.
Treehorn
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I think you can find quality guards in later rounds(see 2nd rounder Cody Whitehair) vs quality pass rushers and CB's in the later rounds. I like Nelson, but the positional value for the #8 pick, at this moment for the Bears, would be stupid.
To me the good teams in the NFL have quality players at theses positions(and not surprisingly they are the highest paid positions):
QB
EDGE
LT
CB
WR
Edit: If the Bears had the above positions covered, hell yeah to Nelson.
To me the good teams in the NFL have quality players at theses positions(and not surprisingly they are the highest paid positions):
QB
EDGE
LT
CB
WR
Edit: If the Bears had the above positions covered, hell yeah to Nelson.
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I think this is a bit of an overstated thing. Tackles and edge rushers are still drafted and paid at a different level than guards and DTs. The Saints system notoriously valuing guards made this a trendy talked about fad as much as anything else. I don't want to use the 8th overall pick on a guard when there are impact caliber players on the board at premium positions the Bears are weak at.
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BPA blended with need blended with position value blended with player tier. If a team is loaded at pass rusher and sitting at #5 with B. Chubb still available you take him regardless of need.
Nelson at #8 would likely be by far the highest tier 1, maybe the only tier 1 player, left. The position value is a big ding, but he may be just so much better than anyone else at their position that he is the pick. I would still bet against it and hope there is a similar tier player at a premier position, like Minkah Fitz still available.
BornAnAngryBearsFan
TF you lookin' at?!?!
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The thought of Jordan Howard running behind a healthy Long, Whitehair, and Nelson is fucking something of dreams
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The argument against Nelson is based on the impact & availability difference between a Rd1 G & Rd2 or 3 G being much LESS than the impact/avail. diff of Rd 1 Edge, CB, OLB & Rd 2/3.
or, don't lose as much getting a Guard later, as you lose getting Edge, CB, OLB in later rounds...on average of course.
I like getting the highest impact & highest priced positions filled in early draft on the cheap vs. costly FA. Another reason why they "reached" for Mitch, and others will "reach" for their QB prospects soon enough. Curious who pays big for FA QBs like Cousins.
or, don't lose as much getting a Guard later, as you lose getting Edge, CB, OLB in later rounds...on average of course.
I like getting the highest impact & highest priced positions filled in early draft on the cheap vs. costly FA. Another reason why they "reached" for Mitch, and others will "reach" for their QB prospects soon enough. Curious who pays big for FA QBs like Cousins.
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Nelson is a luxury pick for me this year. Like... if somehow the Bears got Sammy Watkins, retained Fuller, some how got D. Lawrence from the Cowboys in FA, then Nelson would be #1 on my list. (and I don't even like Watkins)
I would prefer they go after a CB or LB with the hopes of getting an impact player with either pick.
Agree to disagree that both of those positions are more impactful than a Guard. (Name the last 5 games where an elite Guard took over a game. Now do the same with either a LB or CB.)
I would prefer they go after a CB or LB with the hopes of getting an impact player with either pick.
Agree to disagree that both of those positions are more impactful than a Guard. (Name the last 5 games where an elite Guard took over a game. Now do the same with either a LB or CB.)
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Why I may not hate the pick even though I agree with Bearmick overall. I know this isn't a consensus view but I think if he plays at 330ish he could be a VG RT. I know there are many here who would be OK if we drafted a T there, even if he ended up playing G which often happens. Our line coach will know what he's capable of and we'll go from there. Also don't expect Pace to enter the draft with a hole at G on his roster. Have you guys been here the last 3 years?
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Does it play at all into your opinions if Hiestand says Nelson is capable of playing tackle as well? Or naw?
Dagman310
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It's stupid to say Nelson isn't worth the 8th pick. If he lives up to his potential and becomes an all pro guard for the next decade, who cares where he was drafted.
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I don't know much about drafts but I suspect the stories about Wentz regret and settling for Kizer have some kernels of truth to them. I would almost be willing to bet real money that CLE doesn't fuck around anymore and takes QB # 1.
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Cannot speak for anyone else here but it would matter a lot to me, but since I agree with mick in that:
T and pass rush >> G
then I would definitely feel better with the Nelson pick if that is the case. My optimism is a bit high on this staff, and I hope to eat crow on Pace 3 years from now when his staff wins the SB. haha
Myk
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Yes. Actually knowing he does martial arts sold me on the idea. I would have my whole team doing martial arts. I thought that could've helped Rex a lot.
Fans are moronic on draft position. They would rather pass on a great one to get a bum because the great one doesn't grade out to where they think he should for the position. I've gone through more desks, keyboards and foreheads reading that crap over the years.
It really boils down to they want someone different, they just try to sell it as not worthy of the pick.
Bear Pride
Bears Gonna Shock the World!
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I agree. First, all this "don't draft a G high is BS" if that players ranks higher on their draft board then others. If the Bears want a G there, and feel he's the best addition, then it doesn't matter what some think, draft Nelson at #3.
As I said before, Hiestand will know him better then anyone. Besides, Pace just drafted his QB of the future, what's wrong with protecting your QB? Also, Nagy and Helfrich are going to implement a heavy RPO offense, which can get your QB killed.
It's hard to run a RPO offense if the interior of your OL is getting blown up. Just look at Philly's OL. The real question is who will be there at #8 that is graded better then Nelson. It's ok to say draft an OLB or CB, but who? Who is actuallt better then Nelson grade wise that will be there at #8? Heck, Nelson might not even there.
Lastly, none of anyone's opinion here matters. Pacy/Nagy will be rebuilding the whole offense into what they want moving forward. To me, a great start would be having a great OL.
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Yes. But I'd also question why he wasn't playing T at ND if he was as good there.
redgrange19
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If a top end EDGE rusher or Kirkpatrick is available, take him.
If not, take Beef blo...errr.. Nelson.
If not, take Beef blo...errr.. Nelson.
msadows
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There are 4 players id rather the bears draft over nelson(who i realistically think will be there at #8): 1) Calvin Ridley 2) Tremaine Edmunds 3) Denzel Ward 4) Marcus Davenport.
I'd rather go guard, or preferably right tackle in the 2nd round. Im pretty confident we will address guard in FA with either pugh, norwell, or fulton. To me there isn't a better fit at WR for nagy's planned scheme than calvin ridley.
