Apparently Caratini is going to be the back up C

beckdawg

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Color me surprised. Not because he doesn't deserve it but more because I figured they would go with vet leadership. I'm curious if the extra money Gimenez would make might have made the difference giving them a little more room for the trade deadline.

Carrie Muskat

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Caratini to be backup catcher. #Cubs
 

chibears55

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Ahem...

Remember who said Caratini will be the backup and everyone said no itll be Gimenez...

Yep me


I may have some off the wall opinions and all but i have been right more times then not ...
Yep

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beckdawg

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Ahem...

Remember who said Caratini will be the backup and everyone said no itll be Gimenez...

Yep me


I may have some off the wall opinions and all but i have been right more times then not ...
Yep

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I mean to be fair I never thought it was for lack of talent. I just felt they'd want more of a vet behind a young guy in Contreras. Plus, typically you want young guys playing every day from a development stand point. As such it's not really a knock on Caratini because clearly the bat is good enough. But he has a lot of work to do defensively still. If i had to guess this says more about Gimenez than it does about Caratini. And it wouldn't shock me if they see which if any vet C get released. Think they are at 38 on the 40 man atm. Might see a minor trade happen.

I mean I could be wrong but if they do go with Caratini they are going to be SUPER young which is weird for a team that specifically has brought in vets like Jay and Ross in the past. I mean other than Zobrist I think Heyward is the oldest guy. Him or Rizzo as they are 1 day apart.
 

chibears55

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I mean to be fair I never thought it was for lack of talent. I just felt they'd want more of a vet behind a young guy in Contreras. Plus, typically you want young guys playing every day from a development stand point. As such it's not really a knock on Caratini because clearly the bat is good enough. But he has a lot of work to do defensively still. If i had to guess this says more about Gimenez than it does about Caratini. And it wouldn't shock me if they see which if any vet C get released. Think they are at 38 on the 40 man atm. Might see a minor trade happen.

I mean I could be wrong but if they do go with Caratini they are going to be SUPER young which is weird for a team that specifically has brought in vets like Jay and Ross in the past. I mean other than Zobrist I think Heyward is the oldest guy. Him or Rizzo as they are 1 day apart.
They may be young in age but dont forget, Bryant Russell Baez Schwarber are all going into their 4th 5th year and have 3 years of going through all that winning division, playoff , and a WS experience behind them ..
Also how they bounched back last year when things looked bleak right before the break..

Their young but not inexperienced..
They have Rizzo Zobrist and Heyward to keep them straight ..
Not like were talking about a bunch of new kids either, there only 12 position players and all but Caratini have been together the last 3 years..

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CSF77

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I would have had Schwarber catching also so you could max out Cartini’s bat. His plus is his bat not his glove. Sitting on the bench is pointless.
 

beckdawg

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They may be young in age but dont forget, Bryant Russell Baez Schwarber are all going into their 4th 5th year and have 3 years of going through all that winning division, playoff , and a WS experience behind them ..
Also how they bounched back last year when things looked bleak right before the break..

Their young but not inexperienced..
They have Rizzo Zobrist and Heyward to keep them straight ..
Not like were talking about a bunch of new kids either, there only 12 position players and all but Caratini have been together the last 3 years..

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But that's not what I'm talking about when referring to a vet here. The players you mention know nothing about managing a pitching staff and/or umpire. The reason you bringing in a vet is that it gives Contreras someone to lean on. Contreras is there because he can hit and has the tools to be a really good catcher. But having to do all of that while also mentally managing the game has to be stressing. If you pair him with a vet you can off source some of that to the vet who's job is mainly to be on the bench.

The issue as things stand is Caratini isn't going to help him with that. In fact, Caratini is likely going to lean on him for experience rather than the other way around. Also, you're talking about 2 guys in Caratini and Contreras who aren't elite pitch framers for a team that specifically went down the root to acquire those types over the past few years. That's why this is an odd choice.

Like I said, it's not that Caratini can't play at the MLB level. He clearly can. But there's more to being a pro than just hitting. And one could make the case that them losing Montero is one of the reasons their pitching staff wasn't as good last year compared to 2016. Contreras is a great bat and probably will get better from a framing aspect but it's not his best attribute at the moment.
 

chibears55

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But that's not what I'm talking about when referring to a vet here. The players you mention know nothing about managing a pitching staff and/or umpire. The reason you bringing in a vet is that it gives Contreras someone to lean on. Contreras is there because he can hit and has the tools to be a really good catcher. But having to do all of that while also mentally managing the game has to be stressing. If you pair him with a vet you can can off source some of that to the vet who's job is mainly to be on the bench.

The issue as things stand is Caratini isn't going to help him with that. In fact, Caratini is likely going to lean on him for experience rather than the other way around. Also, you're talking about 2 guys in Caratini and Contreras who aren't elite pitch framers for a team that specifically went down the root to acquire those types over the past few years. That's why this is an odd choice.

Like I said, it's not that Caratini can't play at the MLB level. He clearly can. But there's more to being a pro than just hitting. And one could make the case that them losing Montero is one of the reasons their pitching staff wasn't as good last year compared to 2016. Contreras is a great bat and probably will get better from a framing aspect but it's not his best attribute at the moment.
I get it now, youre just talking about Catchers..

It quite possible too as im looking at his spring numbers of 40 PA 7 hits 14 Ks that maybe they just want him to get extra ABs playing in Iowa , kinda like an extended ST, and get his swing right before coming up later..

He could be that 5th guy 3rd catcher come May if Maddon chooses to go with 7 relievers then

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beckdawg

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I get it now, youre just talking about Catchers..

It quite possible too as im looking at his spring numbers of 40 PA 7 hits 14 Ks that maybe they just want him to get extra ABs playing in Iowa , kinda like an extended ST, and get his swing right before coming up later..

He could be that 5th guy 3rd catcher come May if Maddon chooses to go with 7 relievers then

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Maybe but I would have thought had they planned to do that they would have done the reverse. Not sure. Honestly, kinda wish they would have just signed Lucroy. $6.5 mil wouldn't have been that big of a deal though I suppose he might have wanted to start. Another idea might be to have a coach dedicated to helping Contreras in this regard some. I'm not 100% sure if Ross is still doing the TV thing or not. If they had someone like him who occasionally would travel with the team or w/e that could help a bunch and having Caratini wouldn't be as big a deal.
 

CSF77

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Joe said it might change as the season goes on. They feel that Iowa offers nothing to Cartiani and he belongs in the majors. He will get PH opertunitues with Contreras’ off days.

If he seems to need more AB’s that is when they make a swap to increase his playing time
 

TL1961

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I would have had Schwarber catching also so you could max out Cartini’s bat. His plus is his bat not his glove. Sitting on the bench is pointless.

I'd love to hear some explanation on this.

Putting a worse defensive catcher than Caratini would "max out Caratini's bat"? How? What are you suggesting - that Caratini plays defense elsewhere? Schwarber at C and Caratini in Left gives you the same two bats as you have with Caratini catching, and worse D at both positions. How does that "max" anything out?

And while Caratini's bat is better than Caratini's glove, Caratini's bat is not better than Happ's bat, Schwarber's bat, Baez' bat - if you're pushing Caratini into the lineup (other than providing a day off to Contreras), there's no benefit, as his bat is not better than anyone whose place he'd take.

I can't understand what this statement is trying to suggest.
 

CSF77

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I'd love to hear some explanation on this.

Putting a worse defensive catcher than Caratini would "max out Caratini's bat"? How? What are you suggesting - that Caratini plays defense elsewhere? Schwarber at C and Caratini in Left gives you the same two bats as you have with Caratini catching, and worse D at both positions. How does that "max" anything out?

And while Caratini's bat is better than Caratini's glove, Caratini's bat is not better than Happ's bat, Schwarber's bat, Baez' bat - if you're pushing Caratini into the lineup (other than providing a day off to Contreras), there's no benefit, as his bat is not better than anyone whose place he'd take.

I can't understand what this statement is trying to suggest.

Maddon and pitching coach Jim Hickey both know Gimenez, 35, well from their time together in Tampa Bay.

"'Gimmy' is the perfect backup, he's made for that job," Maddon said. "He is the backup quarterback. He knows how to sit there, and he knows how to come and play two games in October or November and get you through that month and then you have a winning record at the end of the season.

"We felt this was the right thing to do right now. We know if it doesn't play for Victor early and he doesn't get enough at-bats, we can flip-flop at some point."

Spring Training: Info | Schedule | Gear

Caratini, 24, made his Major League debut last season and batted .254 in 31 games. He is ranked by MLB Pipeline as the Cubs' No. 8 prospect and the No. 10 catching prospect in all of baseball.

"Victor has demonstrated he's Major League ready," Maddon said. "'Gimmy' has demonstrated he's one of the better backup catchers in all of baseball."
 

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I'd also like to point out that, for the past two years, we've heard a lot about Contreras "learning how to be a great catcher" from a defensive standpoint -- handling the pitchers was the weakness that, supposedly, kept him at AAA for a few years -- and there has been *none* of that talk this spring. The only buzz about Willson has been how he is "ready to take off" after solidly becoming one of the top 10 catchers in MLB. (Remember Darvish's recent quote about being caught by his old buddy Gimenez -- "I'd rather have Contreras".)

Honestly, the only rap I've heard against Contreras is his pitch-framing skills, and seeing as he is one of the top four catchers in MLB in terms of throwing out runners (pop time, release time, throw speed, etc., all are elite), perhaps slightly weak pitch framing is considered less of a problem than if, say, he was just average in caught stealing and pick off stats.

So, Willson is now being treated as the veteran, from whom Caratini can learn a few things in his own development. Pitch framing aside.

And, to be honest, once the automated strike zone comes into play in five years or so, pitch framing (i.e., cheating by trying to make a pitch outside of the strike zone appear to have been a strike via sleight-of-hand) will become a completely non-useful skill. So, why put millions of dollars into players who have a skill that is akin to being the best at making buggy whips? Yeah, there is still a market for the skill at the moment, but, just like with the best spit-ball pitchers of 70 years ago, it's a skill that won't do you any good after a little more evolution of the game.
 

chibears55

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I would have had Schwarber catching also so you could max out Cartini’s bat. His plus is his bat not his glove. Sitting on the bench is pointless.
We still on Schwarber catching?

Schwarber himself said his catching days are over...

I get preferring a vet as the backup Catcher with Contreras still a little raw but if it were a true battle for the backup spot, then Caratini had the edge and also provides them with a little extra as he a SH and can play 1B and corner OF.

Im not surprise with the decision..
With a short bench, their going to need all 4 guys to be productive with the bat along with the glove...

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I'd also like to point out that, for the past two years, we've heard a lot about Contreras "learning how to be a great catcher" from a defensive standpoint -- handling the pitchers was the weakness that, supposedly, kept him at AAA for a few years -- and there has been *none* of that talk this spring. The only buzz about Willson has been how he is "ready to take off" after solidly becoming one of the top 10 catchers in MLB. (Remember Darvish's recent quote about being caught by his old buddy Gimenez -- "I'd rather have Contreras".)

Honestly, the only rap I've heard against Contreras is his pitch-framing skills, and seeing as he is one of the top four catchers in MLB in terms of throwing out runners (pop time, release time, throw speed, etc., all are elite), perhaps slightly weak pitch framing is considered less of a problem than if, say, he was just average in caught stealing and pick off stats.

So, Willson is now being treated as the veteran, from whom Caratini can learn a few things in his own development. Pitch framing aside.

And, to be honest, once the automated strike zone comes into play in five years or so, pitch framing (i.e., cheating by trying to make a pitch outside of the strike zone appear to have been a strike via sleight-of-hand) will become a completely non-useful skill. So, why put millions of dollars into players who have a skill that is akin to being the best at making buggy whips? Yeah, there is still a market for the skill at the moment, but, just like with the best spit-ball pitchers of 70 years ago, it's a skill that won't do you any good after a little more evolution of the game.

I surely hope it happens in less than 5 years.....I don't blame the catchers at all, it's the dumbass umpires that allow themselves to get sucked into it. If these pompous asses would take a few minutes and watch one of their games on replay they'd see how foolish they look....but they're way too full of themselves to do that.
 

anotheridiot

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We still on Schwarber catching?

Schwarber himself said his catching days are over...

I get preferring a vet as the backup Catcher with Contreras still a little raw but if it were a true battle for the backup spot, then Caratini had the edge and also provides them with a little extra as he a SH and can play 1B and corner OF.

Im not surprise with the decision..
With a short bench, their going to need all 4 guys to be productive with the bat along with the glove...

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we should be, hell, he is even in better shape to be squatting back there. Maybe Carantini will show that Schwarber was never such a bad catcher.
 

CSF77

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We still on Schwarber catching?

Schwarber himself said his catching days are over...

I get preferring a vet as the backup Catcher with Contreras still a little raw but if it were a true battle for the backup spot, then Caratini had the edge and also provides them with a little extra as he a SH and can play 1B and corner OF.

Im not surprise with the decision..
With a short bench, their going to need all 4 guys to be productive with the bat along with the glove...

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He is the emergency catcher. Or you PH Cartiani in the 7th and Contreras injures in the 8th. Well guess who is catching.
 

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I'd consider having Caratini getting MLB reps to showcase his bat for a possible trade, if needed.
 

anotheridiot

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I just definitely feel the three catchers is a wasted roster spot since you have Schwarber for emergency duty. They even joke that they believe Baez could go back there. We are only carrying 12 pitchers to start the season, and there are undefined relief roles now so that extra guy should be a pitcher.

I just liked the vet so Contrares still feels there is someone he can learn more from. We saw Geovany soto and Welly both get a little lost when they were the vet.
 

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