Random cubs/baseball talks

CSF77

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Well if that is correct he is 2x worse at framing than the next guy. He is a athlete but lacks skill
 

CSF77

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figures Astroes have league best. Max Stassi. No wonder why every pitcher that goes there goes renaissance.
 

chibears55

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Did you even look at that site? Cartiani is middle of the road. Wilson is among the league worst framers.
I said this before...
Tell me how someone determines whether or not a catcher is purposely trying to frame a pitch..

Outside the obvious blatant glove movement, we cant really tell if their trying to frame a pitch on purpose or not.

Im not trying to defend Contreras or Caratini pitch framing skill or lack of it..
Just super curious to know how these stats people have the time to watch every single pitch of every single game closely and determine whether or not a catcher was purposely trying to frame a pitch or not..
Plus
Do they put into consideration the umps making bad calls and even a good pitch framed gets called a ball or vice versa...



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CSF77

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I said this before...
Tell me how someone determines whether or not a catcher is purposely trying to frame a pitch..

Outside the obvious blatant glove movement, we cant really tell if their trying to frame a pitch on purpose or not.

Im not trying to defend Contreras or Caratini pitch framing skill or lack of it..
Just super curious to know how these stats people have the time to watch every single pitch of every single game closely and determine whether or not a catcher was purposely trying to frame a pitch or not..
Plus
Do they put into consideration the umps making bad calls and even a good pitch framed gets called a ball or vice versa...



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Pretty sure it a data of all pitches caught. Swinging strikes and hits not added.
 

chibears55

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Pretty sure it a data of all pitches caught. Swinging strikes and hits not added.
Human eyes have to determine if a catcher framing or not

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CubsFaninMN

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Pitch framing will mean nothing when they get that electronic strike zone going.

I rarely say this to you, sir, but -- from your mouth to God's ear.

While we are lauding people for their pitch framing, shouldn't we also be giving medals to those fielders who can trap fly balls and make it look like they caught them? Oh, wait, that's cheating and can be challenged...

The first step to the electronic strike zone is going to be the ability of a manager to challenge particularly egregious ball-and-strike calls. The league office's critiques of poor plate umpires just isn't culling out individual umps' personal feelings for and against certain teams and certain players.

It should *never* be the case in a multi-billion-dollar industry, but right now there are some players who have argued with particular umps in the past who will *not ever* get a close call in their favor. It's the old "You touched me! Your pitchers are not getting another called strike from me for the rest of the game!" syndrome. Heck, these days the reason could even be as petty as "You didn't thank me for awarding you a time-out!" Truly, an ump tossed a player out of the game last month and *publicly* gave that as his reason.

As long as you have humans making these judgments, their emotions will sway those judgments. The game has done away with the possibility of any other bad call (intentional or not) impacting the results of a game. So, the precedent is clearly set -- it's acceptable to take the final decisions about whether calls are correct or not out of the on-site umpires' hands.

Ball-and-strike calling impacts a game far more than anything else the umps do on the field in a game. And is the only area of what they do that cannot, as of now, be challenged.

That must change, or else we will continue to see the Don Denkingers of this world determining who wins World Series titles, not the players.

So, within my lifetime (which will only be another 5 to 10 years), I think we will see either a challenge process for balls and strikes put into place, or a full-on move to the automatic strike zone. And then maybe we can stop rating catchers on how well they can cheat and make that trapped ball look like a catch, er, I mean, make that pitch six inches off the plate look like a strike, especially to an ump who really wants to call it a strike in the first place, regardless of where the pitch was actually located.
 

CubsFaninMN

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Adding to my point, back in the Bad Old Days, when the League office felt that the game of baseball would be irreparably damaged if the Yankees did not win the World Series each and every year, the umpires of games the Yanks played in were pretty much instructed that any close call -- and many calls that weren't close -- had damn well better be called in favor of the Yankees, or they might need to be looking for new part-time jobs next summer.

That is the grand tradition of the power and influence the umpire is allowed to exert. It came about as a controlling mechanism, for the league office to apply pressure to fix the games and make the outcome match what they felt was Best For Baseball.

Baseball has been trying valiantly to pull itself out of that corrupt morass for a good half a century, now. The challenge rules have been an enormous step in the right direction. They just haven't gone far enough.

The automated electronic ball-and-strike call is coming. We should welcome it as a method by which the game is placed firmly into the hands and talent levels of the players, and the strategic capabilities of the managers. The guys who intepret the rules ought have no additional function than that -- interpreting the rules.

No one comes out to the ball park to see the Cubs play the Mets and the Umps. In fact, people get outraged when that kind of thing becomes blatant. Which it is in ball-and-strike calling against the Cubs, both on our batters and our pitchers, this year. I mean, tell me Schwarbs has not seen the most blatant balls-called-as-strikes campaign across the entire umpiring corps in more than a generation. Like I say, we're being squeezed from both sides.

Think I'm being paranoid? Fine. Institute the automated strike zone for just one month. Just one month. Then plot the trends of those teams whose pitching performance increases, and those where it decreases.

Let's have data upon which to debate, not just opinions...
 

anotheridiot

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Its really strange, because in the "good old days" I think an umpire would go back and watch film of a game and see which catchers were making him look stupid by stealing strikes and actually go the opposite way and call those pitches balls. I just cant stand it. Watching Molina stealing corners on balls damn near in the dirt. You would think the replay umpires doing the game game would at least give the umpires some feedback on a percentage of calls they are getting wrong. I really dont know how the pitch trax system works, if they set that on the screen or what, but you can see a difference with calls from one park to the next with that. There would need to be a camera hidden in the hitters background somehow directly across from home plate. You know the cubs cameras are towards left center, pretty sure St Louis is farther from center than ours, so watching on ESPN tonight will really show alot of outside pitches being called strikes.
 

CubsFaninMN

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I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

:D

I will say, honestly, that the biggest reason I can think of to adopt the electronic strike zone is actually the explanation we usually hear for why umps get calls wrong: "The pitcher is *trying* to make it hard to see where the ball is going. If it's fooling the batters, it has to be fooling the umpires as well."

If umpires are being so consistently fooled that they are relying on looking at where the catcher's mitt ends up after the ball is in the glove to determine if it was a strike or a ball, you might as well just let the catcher call the balls and strikes.

No? I didn't think anyone would like that idea. And yet, a "good pitch framer" is attempting to do exactly that.

That's why it feels like lauding catchers who are good pitch framers is just a way of saying that there is a legal way of cheating that, if you are good at it, will help your team, so instead of trying to win without cheating, the standard becomes "whoever is best at cheating wins", and I think we all got tired of that during the steroid era. When there is an at-hand technology that eliminates that type of cheating, I think it's a no-brainer that you go with it.

YMMV.
 

beckdawg

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I don't want robo umps. I like that there is ambiguity in a strike zone. My issue is ump shows where batters get thrown out for the slightest perceived slight. IMO going to robo umps would make games less interesting. More often than not it's not a huge issue in games. Plus I think it's good for the game that fans have someone to blame rather than the players. Umps make good scapegoats. And who doesn't love seeing managers go nuts and getting thrown out?
 

fatbeard

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Robot ump + pitch clock + no shift = less TTO baseball

Where do I sign up?
 

beckdawg

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Holy hell... so the pirates are sending shane baz as the ptbnl in the archer trade. He was the 12th pick in the 2017 draft. That's a pretty massive haul for archer with meadows and glasnow
 

Omeletpants

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Ted Williams was batting and rookie catcher is complaining to the umpire that a pitch should have been called a strike. Umpire leans over the catcher and says: "Mr Williams will let you know when it's a strike"
 

CSF77

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Pretty sure this is a delay because of the inseason. Joe pretty much made what they were doing legit. Up until then Everything they did was a bad joke at the major league level.

Joe has short comings but the end of the day this team has gone from worst to play offs every year that he has run it.

The thing is no one is going to be perfect
 

chibears55

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Pretty sure this is a delay because of the inseason. Joe pretty much made what they were doing legit. Up until then Everything they did was a bad joke at the major league level.

Joe has short comings but the end of the day this team has gone from worst to play offs every year that he has run it.

The thing is no one is going to be perfect
Im sure they love him

Ive just wondered with the 1 year left on deal, and turning 65, is he interested in extending after the contract or is he looking to retire ?

If he doesn't want to return or for whatever reason Epstein may not be interested in extending him..
Then with 3 years left on his own contract would he consider moving on from him this offseason so he can offer up at least a 3 yr deal to the new manager, which would coincide with his deal...


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CSF77

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Doubt he retires. Too much life to him. Joe and the crew are making the Ricketts mega billionaires right now and I doubt that they want to train wreck the cash trolly.
 

beckdawg

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Another interesting tidbit i saw.... the cubs signed Florenco Serrano as a mexican ifa last year when they were still under penalty. He signed for $1.2 mil but only $300k of that counted because the other 75% was supposed to go to the team. It's a loophole the cubs have effectively used for awhile now. Anyways long story short the league didn't approve of the signing because apparently the team was set to give him more than the $300k. Cubs apparently didn't know so they weren't penalized. But the upshot of that was the league put another $300k on this years IFA budget to compensate which is interesting.
 

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