Was MJ the Bulls GM?

RoseMVP1

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I went to the same high school as Shawn Kemp, so it would have been cool if he had played for the Bulls. That being said, obviously it worked out for the better that he didn't come here.
 

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Gustavus Adolphus said:
Because of what? Can you expand on this out a bit?
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That because Michael didn't get in players he wanted he's better than Lebron. That's an awful argument imo. Michael would do exactly what Lebron has been doing if not more.

Crys brings up Charles. Charles moved when he could as Michael pretty much did. The question is who does that now? There are guys like KD that are doing just that. Iverson was a guy like that but the truth is there is no one close to Lebron as Charles was to Michael in terms of quality.
 
Gustavus Adolphus

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brett05 said:
That because Michael didn't get in players he wanted he's better than Lebron. That's an awful argument imo. Michael would do exactly what Lebron has been doing if not more.

Crys brings up Charles. Charles moved when he could as Michael pretty much did. The question is who does that now? There are guys like KD that are doing just that. Iverson was a guy like that but the truth is there is no one close to Lebron as Charles was to Michael in terms of quality.
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I'm going to back away because I'm even more confused now.
 

brett05

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Gustavus Adolphus said:
I'm going to back away because I'm even more confused now.
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Michael is the best.
Charles is let's say at the time 50th best all time

Lebron is the best now and 2nd best all time
Next is KD who is outside the top 50 IMO.

I absolutely think Michael would do what Lebron has done GM wise.
 
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Whether you think he would or not is *yet another speculation* argument. The fact is, he could have and did not. He had contract years, he had the pull to do whatever he wanted in the NBA. Jordan didn't play GM, Charles DID in the same exact era and when he was shushed out, he left. FACT 100%, no need for speculation.

This is almost as stupid as when people blame Kevin Garnett for joining a superteam. *hint* He didn't, he was traded.

I think if Bozo the clown was on TV today, he would absolutely be a serial killer. <-not logic, not an argument. It's baseless.
 

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Crystallas said:
Whether you think he would or not is *yet another speculation* argument. The fact is, he could have and did not. He had contract years, he had the pull to do whatever he wanted in the NBA. Jordan didn't play GM, Charles DID in the same exact era and when he was shushed out, he left. FACT 100%, no need for speculation.

This is almost as stupid as when people blame Kevin Garnett for joining a superteam. *hint* He didn't, he was traded.

I think if Bozo the clown was on TV today, he would absolutely be a serial killer. <-not logic, not an argument. It's baseless.
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Your analogy attempt on Bozo was awful.
Charles left after his contract, yes? Can you supply links where he flipped the team over? Certainly we have Michael trying and failing in this thread. Now if it was under today's rules no doubt for me and really not many you'd come across that would say otherwise.

Of course it's all speculation but to make Michael out as anything but an egomaniac is a massive mistake IMO. He's shown it plenty up to and including his HOF induction speech.
 
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Gustavus Adolphus said:
Scoot is right about the short answer, but the longer answer is that he did lobby hard with the Krause for certain things. I've always heard a rumor that he was looking to get Pippen traded for Shawn Kemp, and it's pretty much known that he hated the Oakley for Cartwright trade. Jordan really isn't the businessman he thinks he is - certainly not in the same vain as Magic Johnson. He's more like Isaiah Thomas, but it's much more hidden. That said, in his retirement from playing the one thing he's definitely good at is picking second wives.
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Nah, he didn't want Krause to do that.
 
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Gustavus Adolphus said:
Scoot is right about the short answer, but the longer answer is that he did lobby hard with the Krause for certain things. I've always heard a rumor that he was looking to get Pippen traded for Shawn Kemp, and it's pretty much known that he hated the Oakley for Cartwright trade. Jordan really isn't the businessman he thinks he is - certainly not in the same vain as Magic Johnson. He's more like Isaiah Thomas, but it's much more hidden. That said, in his retirement from playing the one thing he's definitely good at is picking second wives.
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FirstTimer said:
Nah, he didn't want Krause to do that.
Click to expand...

The Pippen for Kemp rumors came out during the '94 Offseason after 1.8 Seconds when MJ was playing on the White Sox AA club. He had nothing to do with wanting to trade Scottie for Shawn, that was all Krause.
 
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FirstTimer said:
Nah, he didn't want Krause to do that.
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TonyMontana said:
The Pippen for Kemp rumors came out during the '94 Offseason after 1.8 Seconds when MJ was playing on the White Sox AA club. He had nothing to do with wanting to trade Scottie for Shawn, that was all Krause.
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I never remembered it in the 90s, but it was the George Karl scorched earth book that made me think of it.
 

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Couple of things I would add. I think Jordan most definitely meddled, but it was less accepted. No one knows how Jordan would have been if he had played in a league like we have today. From what I understand he was an insufferable dbag. I can't imagine in today's world instant communication world and constant surveillance he would have fared nearly as well as James.

That said, Lebron James is overrated as a basketball player. He is not the second best player ever. Top 10 without a doubt. Maybe even top 5. People talk about him as a lock second best, but I just don't see it. yes his athleticism is nearly unparalleled, but athletes always get bigger, stronger, faster. Comparing him to his peers, he is just not nearly as some of the other guys.

Onto Shawn Kemp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OARoyYN3Ce0

For me, Kemp could have been the best PF ever if he would have landed in a place like Utah (assuming a more structured organization and coach could have kept him right.) He had the greatest combination of athleticism/skill/size/length of any player in the 90s. He also supposedly had a bad cocaine, alcohol, and pie habit. The fact he was putting up 19/12 in the most competitive era at one of the deepest positions while on a diet of cocaine, whiskey and pie is pretty remarkable.

When I think back of players who were right there on the verge of being one of the greatest ever and then self destructed I think of Kemp. He was set to be next level. He got up to 300 pounds in Clevland and was still putting 18/10.

*I don't know if it was really pie, I think it was just really unhealthy foods.
 
Johnnyt237

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There's no supposed about Kemp. I live in Washington and stories of Kemp are like Richard Pryor snorting and free basing cocaine are rampant. He is a legendary partier. I am convinced Kemp was shipped to Cleveland so he didn't caught up in a scandal.
 

cjswan232482

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If MJ did not block the Pippen-McGrady trade Krause may have survived the rebuild.
 

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cjswan232482 said:
If MJ did not block the Pippen-McGrady trade Krause may have survived the rebuild.
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Bulls might have not won the 98 championship. An i believe reinsdorf vetoed it to make one last run. He had the final say.
 

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I would say no. When he was a gm he was pretty bad. Kwame brown? seriously?
 
anotheridiot

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It sure had a different feeling around the cleveland situation this year, I thought LeBron basically threw the entire front office under the bus before the deadline this time around, think this was the least Lebron had to do with getting players in a long time.
 

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If this still matters.

Jerry Krause had a few great drafts, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, King but what he was great at was understanding what players he needed to surround Jordan with to have great teams. Pippen was the great all around player, Cartwright was a stabilizing force in the middle, Paxson and Ron Harper steadied the ship, Rodman was really one dimensional as a rebounder but that's the role that was needed. Guys like Jud Buechler, Steve Kerr, John Salley, James Edwards, Brian Williams knew how to stay out of the way when they should and where to be when they were called on. It's not easy to find players who are willing to play key roles in 3 out of 10 games and not complain about the other 7. To Krause's credit he was great at finding those guys
 

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ChettheJet said:
If this still matters.

Jerry Krause had a few great drafts, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, King but what he was great at was understanding what players he needed to surround Jordan with to have great teams. Pippen was the great all around player, Cartwright was a stabilizing force in the middle, Paxson and Ron Harper steadied the ship, Rodman was really one dimensional as a rebounder but that's the role that was needed. Guys like Jud Buechler, Steve Kerr, John Salley, James Edwards, Brian Williams knew how to stay out of the way when they should and where to be when they were called on. It's not easy to find players who are willing to play key roles in 3 out of 10 games and not complain about the other 7. To Krause's credit he was great at finding those guys
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Krause deserves credit for that. I think he was really treated unfairly by MJ. In fact i dont think mj gave krause credit until he died. It's a damn shame.
 
Axl Rose

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Krause was a bit of a twat himself. He had a miniature championship trophy on his desk after they won the first chip and Pippen asked if he could get one...Krause told him no it was only for the "boss"
 
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